Need Explanation..

[ahblaza]

Hello, I hate to bother everyone with such a trivial question that I should know but here it is, speaker manual says to toe in the speaker at about five to ten degrees in relation to listening position. Could you please explain what is meant by the degrees, how do you know if it is toed in ten degrees?
Thanks guys, Jeff

 

[jcl]

Good old fashioned geometry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degree_(angle)

Dolby site has some setup pages that should help. http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/setup/connection-guide/home-theater-speaker-guide/index.html

HTH

 

[j_garcia]

10 degrees is a general guideline. They need to be toed correctly to suit your listening position, so 10 degrees may not work for your room and where you sit. Just start to angle them inward toward the listening position and there will be a point at which they sound right.

 

[agarwalro]

When you have the speakers pointed straight out, it is considered 'no toe-in'. As start to turn them so that they point inwards (back of speaker is more to outside of front), you are increasing the toe-in.

Speakers do not sound the same when you move from being directly in front of them to being at an angle to the front. What this means is, by changing toe-in, you are changing the loudness of sounds directly reaching your ears vs. loudness of sounds reaching your ears after being reflected off the side walls and back of room. The effect of changing the toe-in (meaning, altering the levels of direct sound vs. reflected sound) is that the perceived "size/width" of the sound changes. But, the drawback is that the directivity of sounds diminishes with more loudness of reflected sound.

The toe-in of choice (one that appeals to your aural preference) is a balance between the pin point accuracy of sound source vs. perceived size of the listening space. It is commonly refered to as imaging vs. soundstage.

 

[BillCinLR]

Both speakers pointing STRAIGHT AHEAD is 0 (Zero) Degrees.
Both speakers pointing at EACH OTHER is 90 Degrees.
10 Degrees would be BARELY pointing toward the center of your room and as has been discussed above, may or may not be suitable for your situation.

Good luck,

Bill C

 

[3db]

Speaker toe-in depends on two variables...your room set-up and the dispersion characteristics of your speaker. Given the same room, some speakers will require more or less than 10 degrees toe in depending on their dispersion characteristics.The 10 degrees is just a guideline. You will need to experiment with toe-in to get the sound you are looking for.

 

[ahblaza]

Speaker toe-in depends on two variables...your room set-up and the dispersion characteristics of your speaker. Given the same room, some speakers will require more or less than 10 degrees toe in depending on their dispersion characteristics.The 10 degrees is just a guideline. You will need to experiment with toe-in to get the sound you are looking for.

Thank you and everyone else for the replies. The speakers will be Ascends 340's, the 10 degree toe - in as you say is a reference point in which to start, to get the sound as you say that I am looking for is a balance of imaging and soundstage width? As far as distance between front speakers, it is suggested that I measure the distance of listening position to midway point between the mains and multiply that amount by 0.73 to determine distance between mains, this measurement is based on a T formation of listening spot and mains, then begin the toe-in listening, these are all suggested and not written in stone. I use a laser pointer and the old string method of toe-in to make sure each front speaker is equal distance to the listening position. Thanks again to all that responded.
Jeff

 

[markw]

You're overcomplicating this.

Ideally, the two main speakers and your ears should form a perfect triangle.

Sometimes the room, and it's furnishings, has other ideas so you try to place them as close to this ideal as possible.

Once tou do that, you aim them towards your listening position. Adjust them both equally outwards, in small steps, until you get the best* sound.

Alternately, you could with them facing straight ahead and adjust them both equally inwards, in small seps, until you get the best* sound.

Take your time.

* "best", as always, is a personal preference. A laser does not have your ears.

 

[3db]

Ideally, the two main speakers and your ears should form a perfect triangle.

.

An obtuse triangle?

Seriously though, some say start with an equilibrium trinaqgle others say start with an isosceles triangle.

 

[its phillip]

Yeah, I just have mine aimed in the general direction of my sitting/laying position. I wasn't super precise about it or anything - i just stood behind them and looked at where they were aimed. They sound great

 

[majorloser]

Personally I use a laser to help align speakers, espescially if you are running side-by-side comparisons. Each speaker should be pointed at the primary listening position, "the sweet spot". It will prevent one of the speakers from being off axis.

A lazer is also handy if you have a helper with a hand held mirror.. You can use the lazer to find the first reflection point for speaker by having the helper hold the mirror along the side walls at listening height. placing the laser on top of the speaker and pointed it on the side wall where the mirro is located. The laser light will reflect off the mirror back into the room. You then turn the laser moving the beam further down the wall, having the helper with the mirror follow the beam. Once the reflected beam hits your primary listening position, you've found the first reflection point for that particular speaker on that particular wall. Doing this to both side walls with each speaker will find all the first reflection points. Of course this also works for the floor and ceiling, but not many people have Spiderman as a helper.

These reflection points help with accoustic treament placement in the room.

I'm sure this might explain it better than I ever can:
RealTraps - How To Set Up a Room

 

[markw]

An obtuse triangle?

Seriously though, some say start with an equilibrium trinaqgle others say start with an isosceles triangle.

What, are you trying to be acute?

Generally, both speakers should be about the same distance from the listening position, which should be as close to the middle between the two speakers as humanly possible.

 

[j_garcia]

First reflection off the sidewall can't easily be determined. Not all speakers disperse equally off axis and the radiation pattern isn't linear. Minimizing the near wall reflections is a big benefit though.

I don't aim mine exactly either - it usually takes a few days to dial them in. I get them as close to equal from the center and then just manually tweak them to reduce those early reflections and dial in the "sweet spot" in the listening area. Moving your mains as little as a degree and less than an inch can have a big affect on the sound.

Equliateral triangle, except that most rooms don't typically allow for that, and I don't find that always gives the best sound either. Every room is different. Being centered between them is a given, but except for critical listening most people don't sit in the true sweet spot all the time (at least not in a dual purpose setup). The setup does ideally form a triangle formation though.

 

[markw]

Amen

Moving your mains as little as a degree and less than an inch can have a big affect on the sound.

Having lived with Maggies, I can attest to that!

"dialing in" speakers isn't an exact science and it does take some time to get it right and find the best compromise.

 

[ahblaza]

Thanks guys for the advice and the laughs.....
Jeff