Need advice with new receiver - budget up to $2k

[stevos2005]

I've been into audio/home theater for several years and am happy with my system, but want to upgrade to surround sound & the latest HD formats.

I am looking for a receiver (budget up to $2k, possibly up to $2.5k, but don't mind spending less) with the following qualities:

- at least 3 HDMI v1.3a inputs with GUI output via HDMI
- DTS-HD MA
- Dolby TrueHD
- high quality DACs for all channels (i.e. Burr Brown)
- high quality analog audio (ideally with direct pass through for CD player)

My current system consists of:

Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver (to be sold)
B&W CDM 1NT main speakers (to be moved to surround duty)
Odyssey Audio Stratos Amp to power main speakers
Polk Audio PSW 650 subwoofer (to be sold)
Onkyo SP-1000 DVD/SACD Player (used for CDs & SACDs)
Sony PS3 (used for Blu-Ray, DVDs, and games)
Sony Bravia XBR4 46" HDTV

I have promised to sell the RX-V2400 receiver and the polk sub to a friend in August, so I'll need something by then. I want a receiver that is at the very least as good, but preferably better than the Yammie in audio quality and with all the latest HD processing - something that is not already obsolete.
As I won't need to buy until August, is there anything upcoming that will fit my criteria?

I will also be moving the B&W CDM 1NT bookshelf speakers to surround. I am debating either to pair a new B&W 805S bookshelf speakers as mains with a B&W ASW700 sub or to get floorstanding B&W 804S speakers as mains and doing without a sub. I live in a condo, so I don't play music/movies very loud and can't shake the floor much. I use system for 50% music/ 50% movies & TV. Although the primary topic of discussion is the receiver, comments on the speaker selection are welcome and appreciated.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[mudrummer99]

Welcome to Audioholics!

Look at the Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH, Denon AVR-3808CI, and the Yamaha RX-V3800. All should be very adequate for your usage and come in under your budget. Some of the other guys may be able to recommend less readily available equipment, but these should be pretty easy to find in just about every area. Hope this helps a bit.

Mike

 

[Mizraw]

emotiva mps2 and umc-1 once it is released in june
total should be near 2000

 

[Seth=L]

Note: If you intend to use the PS3 as your Blu-ray player there is no reason you would need DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD decoding on a receiver or pre/pro. The PS3 can't send those bitstreams out to a receiver or pre/pro, it handles the decoding of the format internally and sends out an uncompressed multichannel PCM signal over HDMI. Any receiver or pre/pro with HDMI 1.1 repeating architecture can utilize Blu-ray's audio to it's fullest.

With that said, I think the Yamaha RX-V1800 is a good bet. I am not sure of the exact DACs the Yamaha uses, but they are Burr-Brown DACs. The Yamaha does have a direct mode. I believe it also does GUI over HDMI.

 

[stevos2005]

PS3 currently sends DTS-HD via HDMI bitstream with the most recent firmware v2.30 update, but not yet Dolby TrueHD, although it may come later. However, I want a receiver that I'll be happy using at least 5+ years to come, so it would have to decode these formats.

The Denon and the Yamaha look promising. What are the differences between the Denon and the Yamaha in terms of sound quality, build quality, etc.? I'm not as familiar with the Pioneer, and I've never heard of emotiva, but I'll check them out.

Thanks for the suggestions. Please keep them coming.

 

[EJ1]

Welcome to Audioholics!

Look at the Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH, Denon AVR-3808CI, and the Yamaha RX-V3800. All should be very adequate for your usage and come in under your budget. Some of the other guys may be able to recommend less readily available equipment, but these should be pretty easy to find in just about every area. Hope this helps a bit.

Mike

I second the Pioneer VSX-94TXH.

 

[The 7th Taylor]

I am looking for a receiver (budget up to $2k, possibly up to $2.5k, but don't mind spending less)

My current system consists of:
...
Onkyo SP-1000 DVD/SACD Player (used for CDs & SACDs)
Sony PS3 (used for Blu-Ray, DVDs, and games)
...

Unless you bought the 40GB PS3 you could use the console to play SACDs, sell the Onkyo and add $$ to your receiver budget

 

[jcPanny]

Seperates

I agree, check out the Emotiva pre-pro and amp for $1500+ depending on which amp you choose.

Above the $1k price range, receivers add mostly video features and networking. You also might consider a good mid-fi receiver and outboard amp for your high end system.

 

[Seth=L]

PS3 currently sends DTS-HD via HDMI bitstream with the most recent firmware v2.30 update, but not yet Dolby TrueHD, although it may come later. However, I want a receiver that I'll be happy using at least 5+ years to come, so it would have to decode these formats.

The Denon and the Yamaha look promising. What are the differences between the Denon and the Yamaha in terms of sound quality, build quality, etc.? I'm not as familiar with the Pioneer, and I've never heard of emotiva, but I'll check them out.

Thanks for the suggestions. Please keep them coming.

No, it does not, and it never will. It's simply not possible for the PS3 to bitstream DTS-HD/TrueHD because the hardware in the PS3 makes sending any Dolby Digital TrueHD or DTS-HD bitstream impossible, it's not related to software in any way. The 2.30 update added the ability of the PS3 to process DTS-HD internally. It is also note worthy that it is better to have the Blu-ray player/PS3 decode the format internally and send it out via LPCM. If you had a Blu-ray player that could bitstream HD audio it would be for primary audio tracks only, it would not be able to do secondary audio such as commentaries or menu sounds. No fidelity is lost by having the PS3 handle the decoding and allowing the receiver to handle the D/A process.

I don't foresee Blu-ray correcting the secondary audio issues, so you will not "need" HDMI 1.3 with DTS-HD/TrueHD decoding on a receiver, as this should be offered in Blu-ray players far into the future.

 

[stevos2005]

I appreciate your comments - they made me do some thinking.

Ok, I'm curious now:

"No, it does not"

Ok. I looked this up. This was disappointing (regarding direct bitstream), but apparently it can decode DolbyTrueHD as well, so that was a pleasant surpirse.


", and it never will. It's simply not possible for the PS3 to bitstream DTS-HD/TrueHD because the hardware in the PS3 makes sending any Dolby Digital TrueHD or DTS-HD bitstream impossible, it's not related to software in any way."

How is this so? I'm not familiar with the specifics on what is needed to bitstream HD formats via HDMI and how the PS3 is lacking them.

"The 2.30 update added the ability of the PS3 to process DTS-HD internally."

True. Agreed. It can also decode Dolby TrueHD.

"It is also note worthy that it is better to have the Blu-ray player/PS3 decode the format internally and send it out via LPCM. If you had a Blu-ray player that could bitstream HD audio it would be for primary audio tracks only, it would not be able to do secondary audio such as commentaries or menu sounds."

I am perfectly fine with that. I put a lot more emphasis on primary audio track quality than secondary audio.

"No fidelity is lost by having the PS3 handle the decoding and allowing the receiver to handle the D/A process."

How is this so? Again, I'm not familiar with the exact technical procedures. But the only way I can practically think of where fidelity would not be lost is if the bitstream were an undecoded audio stream, and LPCM were truly just an uncompressed decoded audio stream from the original bitstream. If that's the case, then this is starting to make some sense.

"I don't foresee Blu-ray correcting the secondary audio issues, so you will not "need" HDMI 1.3 with DTS-HD/TrueHD decoding on a receiver, as this should be offered in Blu-ray players far into the future."

What are the secondary audio issues? Even if I don't "need" HDMI 1.3 with DTS-HD/TrueHD decoding on a receiver, I would need a receiver that could decode/process uncompressed 7.1 channel LPCM via HDMI. How would the receiver handle this information? It has to be processed in some way.

You seem eager to tell me that I don't need the latest HD decoding capability. I'm assuming that you have other "better quality" receivers/processors in mind that don't have this? The fact that I'm selling the RX-V2400 is an entirely separate personal issue altogether, but I figured this would be an opportune time to upgrade to a receiver capable of processing the latest formats.

Again, I prefer to have a receiver capable of the latest formats and outputting 1080p to the TV via HDMI. It is extremely important that the DAC and analog audio quality (with the exception of possibly the amps, as I have an external amps) be at least as good and preferably better than the Yamaha RX-V2400.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[stevos2005]

Thanks, but I have the latest 40GB PS3. In any case, I like the Onkyo's Wolfson DACs and analog audio quality. Another thought I had is that I would need the receiver to have a discrete unprocessed analog input, so I could hook up the Onkyo as a CD player. The Yamaha RX-V2400 currently has this. Which of the receivers mentioned have this?

 

[stevos2005]

Responding to SethL's comments

Again, I've been thinking about your comments regarding not needing HDMI v1.3

I value 2ch music more than home theater, although I want the capability to play the lossless HD format.

What I really want and need:
- I will never have a 7.1 setup - I could never justify having that many speakers (due to space). The most I will ever have is 4.1

I really like the sound of Rotel receivers/processors. Unfortunately, they don't offer any that process the HD formats.

If they did, I would easily take a RSX-1058 or even an RSP-1069 anyday over a Yamaha or Denon. However, I'm concerned with their ability to handle 7.1 channel LPCM, how it would get processed, and if they would account for the LFE 10dB correction.

I appreciate any comments. I could wait as late as December, if new products were to be introduced by then.

 

[mazersteven]

How about this?

http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DTC-9.8&class=Separates&p=i

 

[stevos2005]

Integra Pre/Pro

Thanks! That Integra looks very promising, and I'm reading that it's only $1600. Although it's only a pre/pro, upgrading to complete separates might not be a bad idea. I could get a smaller Rotel amp to power the rear surrounds and come in just at or below the $2500 budget.

Has anyone had any experience good/bad with this Integra? I'll have to check it out. I've read that both Onkyo and Yamaha have had problems with DTS-HD MA popping, but not the Denons. Does this issue include the Integra?

 

[mazersteven]

Has anyone had any experience good/bad with this Integra? I'll have to check it out. I've read that both Onkyo and Yamaha have had problems with DTS-HD MA popping, but not the Denons. Does this issue include the Integra?

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34108&highlight=integra

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=873877&highlight=Integra+DTC-9.8

 

[Midcow2]

Look at Marantz 7002 or 8002

The Marantz AVRs will more than meet your needs.

SR8002 MSRP $1999.99
http://us.marantz.com/Products/2204.asp
125 Watts x 7 Channels All Discrete Amplifier Stage
Current Feedback Amplification
HDMI v1.3a Repeating/Switching: 4-In/2-Out
Dolby® TrueHD, Dolby® Digital Plus, dts-HD™ Master Audio
Deep Color, xvYCC and SACD Support by HDMI
Up-Conversion (w/TBC) to HDMI with 480i/480p Converter
Assignable Dual Component Outputs
M-DAX (Marantz Dynamic Audio eXpander) for Compressed Audio
HD-Radio
XMHD Surround by Neural THX® Technologies
Audyssey MultEQ
Direct-Set Volume, Tuner Preset and XM Preset Commands
Upgraded Binding Posts (Dielectric Protected)
RS-232C control and IR Flasher Input
IR Receiver Input and x2 IR Emitter Outputs
x2 12V DC Trigger Output
2nd Zone Audio/Video Output and 3rd Zone Audio Output
Stereo/Mono Switching for 2nd/3rd Zone
RC8001SR Main-Room & RC-101M Multi-Room Remotes Included
<16” Shallower Chassis





SR7002 MSRP $1,399.99
http://us.marantz.com/Products/2205.asp

THX® Select2 Certified
110 Watts x 7 Channel All Discrete Amplifier Stage
Current Feedback Amplification
HDMI v1.3a Repeating/Switching: 4-In/2-Out
Dolby® TrueHD, Dolby® Digital Plus, dts-HD™ Master Audio
Deep Color, xvYCC and SACD Support by HDMI
Up-Conversion (w/TBC) to HDMI with 480i/480p Converter
Dual Component Outputs
XMHD Surround by Neural THX® Technologies
M-DAX (Marantz Dynamic Audio eXpander) for Compressed Audio
Audyssey MultEQ
Direct-Set Volume, Tuner Preset and XM Preset Commands
RS-232C control and IR Flasher Input
x2 12V DC Trigger Outputs
2nd Zone Audio/Video Output
Stereo/Mono Switching for 2nd Zone
RC8001SR Main-Room & RC-101M Multi-Room Remotes Included
<16” Shallower Chassis

 

[tn001d]

I would wait until the end of the summer. Denon is releasing new receivers for 2008, and as usual, they improve each year with more features.

 

[The 7th Taylor]

No, it does not, and it never will. It's simply not possible for the PS3 to bitstream DTS-HD/TrueHD because the hardware in the PS3 makes sending any Dolby Digital TrueHD or DTS-HD bitstream impossible, it's not related to software in any way.

Like the OP, Stevos2005, I'm very eager to learn what you can tell about this. What is the hardware bottleneck, really? After all, passing a bitstream on transparently should be far easier than processing it, both in hardware and software terms.