Need advice about Crestron

  • Thread starter calgarianperson
  • Start date
C

calgarianperson

Junior Audioholic
I have designed what i would like for my ideal hometheater/multi room audio set up and i am wondering if someone could tell me specifics for a few things as well as it would me nice to know of the MSRPs for these devices.

1. First I need to know what Crestron processor i need to hook together different Crestron units. (PAD-8 for music, as well as what is below)

2. Second I need to know what Crestron unit i need to control:
* a video server (videorequest with RS232)
*Reciever (Yahmaha RXV-2500 with RS232)
*Audio Server (Audio request with RS232 or Imerge with RS232)
*DVD Player (normal)
*CD player (normal)
*vcr (normal)
*HDTV tuner (normal)
*PVR (normal)
*2 four room amps (normal)
*some monster cable power gear.

[note all gear is in a back room]

3. Third I need to know what i use to control:
* a projector that is roof mounted in the theater room
*a screen in the theater room
*shades on 2-3 windows in the room
*lights in the room

4. Finally I need to know what i use to hook up all my different controllers
*12 button controllers (one per zone)
*wall mounted touch screens (1 per floor=2 total) [will control source selection and the music server]
*a wired or wireless touchscreen in the theater room

Thanks a million.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I got your PM - It will take a few days for me to get back in touch though. ;) Patience!
 
C

calgarianperson

Junior Audioholic
this list makes it more clear than the PM what im looking for help with.

thanks in advance
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Well, as always, money comes into play as to what you want to do.

I will list all MSRP prices in US$ and make my recommendations on some things that I would consider to matter. A few items I will give you choices on so you can decide which is the way you want to go with it. Always - based on $$$. Keep in mind that MSRP is more than you (or anyone) should pay.

Processors
AV2 - $2,700.00
CP2/CP2E - $1,400/$1,800.00
The control processor is the heart of your system and is where all programming exists as well as containing the majority of the control ports that you will need for your equipment (IR, serial (rs-232), relays, and versaports).

RECOMMENDED: AV2 - This unit is expandable with 4 card slots. One for an ethernet control card as well as 3 slots that accept additional IR, RS-232 or other cards. There are a bunch of different control cards that Crestron makes. Since you currently have 3 RS-232 devices, any additional 232 devices would require additional purchases with the CP2 processors listed below. So, this box gives you room to grow.

CP2/CP2E - Gives you the same 'brains' as the AV2, but only provides 3 serial COM (rs-232) ports. It would be maxed out immediately by the 2 request units and your 2500 receiver. While Crestron does sell add on COM-2 boxes, they are 700 bucks each so the AV2 makes more sense. The CP2E adds built in e-control which is cool, if you use it. But, an ethernet card is available for the AV2 (or better) processors.

Keypads
C2N-DBF12W - White (Almond/Black available): $260.00 each
This is the only keypad to look at really. It includes about 24 buttons that give you a bunch of pre-printed sources, volume up/down, mute, off, etc. It is Decora sized, so you can gang it together with your light switch if you want (low voltage add-on box) or you can just use a typical Decora faceplate that matches other faceplates in your home already. Programming determines how well these keypads work. Put one of these in any room that is audio only and does not have a touchpanel in it.

Touchpanels
TPS-2000L - $1,900.00
ST-1700C - $2,600.00 (needs 1-way RF receiver - $500.00 for house)
TPMC-10 - $3,800.00 (uses 802.11 a/b home network)
STX-1700CXP - $4,400.00 (requires 2-way RF receiver - $1,400.00 for house)

Recommended: For touchpanels going on each floor, the TPS-2000L is great. Good color, bright, easy to read (make sure it is up at eye level, not down near your light switch!). The panel is just under 6 inches diagonal and is very good for navigating 2-way devices like the Request units and can provide feedback, as available, for station presets, etc. There is also the CT-1000 ($1,250.00) which is just to small to give you all that information nicely. I stopped installing CT-1000s almost as soon as the TPS-2000 came out because it was so much better. The TPS-2000L can also display video and has a microphone in it if you want to add some sort of paging functionality to it or if you want to display a video source (camera/DSS/etc)

I recommend that you don't pick a central location for these panels, but pick an actual room to put them in where they will receive the most use. Upstairs - master bedroom - downstairs... kitchen? family room? A 'central location' forces you to always walk somewhere to use it, instead of having it right at hand in at least ONE room. I have seen this mistake before.

There are larger, more expensive panels, but the system doesn't (in my opinion) warrant the $3,000+ hard wired panels.

For wireless, 3 options.

The ST-1700c is a good touchscreen that offers 1-way control. It's cool, has a lot of flash and controls a theater nicely. But, if you want information from your Request ON the touchpanel - you can't. It only sends out information, it does not receive info. It is also the touchpanel that I have installed in more homes than any other.

The STX-1700cxp is identical to the ST-1700, except it offers 2-way communication. Price is significantly more.

The TPMC-10 was just named as one of Cedia's products of the year and is a 10" wireless b/g (LAN) panel with some Internet capabilities as well as operating as a two-way touchpanel. It's a new product which may mean there could be a few bugs and requires a home network as well as an ethernet card inside your control system. C2-ENET-1 card for AV2 processor = $900.00
If funds allowed, I would go with the TPMC-10 instead of any other wireless panel. Video preview is not possible on the TPMC-10

CONSIDER: I love touchpanels, and they have their place, but hard-button remotes can be used much easier once you are used to the button layout. The Crestron ML-500 remote is a great theater remote for a fair price: $750.00 and a 1-way gateway will be required ($500.00) This product is great because if you end up with a second video zone, you can just add another remote and it doesn't have the same heft or fragile nature as touchpanels do. So, tossing it to a friend is easy and if it falls on the floor, you pick it up and keep using it.

You will definitely need an external power supply: CNPWS-75 - $450.00

The hub of your audio switching comes from the CNX-PAD8a - $1,800.00 - which will allow you to route up to 8 sources to 8 different rooms. It only accepts analog audio, but allows you to loop audio through the unit so that you can add multiple PAD8's (up to 3) for more rooms, then the final loop through can be taken into your RX-V2500 for local audio monitoring.

I would recommend a couple CNTBLOCKs (connection blocks), $170.00, which allow easy connection/disconnection of multiple rooms. Should there be installation issues, this will significantly improve troubleshooting and overall reliability. You can also get the Xantech version for about 100 bucks from a Xantech distributor. Model CB-18
http://www.xantech.com/products/p_folder/p_cb18.htm

I used 22/12 stranded wiring in my home for all Crestron related items - though CAT-5 works, the solid core makes it prone to breaking much easier during install.

Finally, you have several pieces of gear that are not specified - this includes your theater equipment - projector, screen, shades, lights.

Projector - go with almost anything, I use an IR controlled Panasonic - it works fine. The new Sharp Z2000 is 232 controlled. Others work differently, but you really want the projector to offer discrete input selection or have a 232 port on it.
Screen - In a dedicated theater I would use a fixed screen - it gives the best image for the least cost, but if you must go motorized, get a tab tensioned motorized screen with momentary low voltage triggers. DaLite definitely offers this, but I believe Stewart & Draper do as well.

Blinds/Shades: You have a ton of choices here. The screen manufacturers offer some excellent black out shades that are controlled by the relays on the Crestron. There is stuff at www.smarthome.com for more traditional blinds, and www.hunterdouglas.com offers motorized IR controlled mini-blinds. In my home I am going to order the Hunter Douglas celular shades in the master bedroom. I used to have some from another company and they worked great. Battery powered means no high voltage to deal with.

Lights - Lutron offers many choices, including RF controlled RadioRA ($$$) the Grafik Eye stuff ($$) or the Spacer System IR dimmers ($). I went with Spacer System because I'm cheap, but it also happens to work reliably. Choice, once again, is yours.

If you are up north of the border, then I am not sure what nuances you may run into with purchasing Crestron, but feel free to do some shopping on eBay and consider some of the older touchpanels (hard wired) as they may provide you some unique solutions.

MY HOME: I am using a CT-3500, VT-3500, and LC-3000 panel in my home for my hard wired panels. They are all 10 inch panels and can provide me 2-way information from my iMerge digital music server as well as station presets info. I am using ML-500s in my bedroom and family room for video control and have about a dozen 12 button keypads hooked up to a couple of Pad-8 audio units.

Okay - I will in about a month when I finally move into the house. I already own all the equipment. :)

Let me know if there is more info you need.
 
C

calgarianperson

Junior Audioholic
Wow!! thank you very much for the extended reply.... after more review I have determined that I will likely be choosing an Infocus 7210 projector and a fixed wall screen with some wood finishing around it etc.

I noticed you use the ML-500s for video in a few rooms and when you get a chance I was womndering if you could tell me what you do to route the video??? is it a switcher or are you forced to watch the same thing on both screens?

Thanks Again.!!!
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I am using the zone 2 from my Yamaha Z1 w/video to send video to the master bedroom. The same can be done with your 2500. Keeping in mind that the master bedroom TV is a regular 27 inch 4:3 tv, not an HD unit, so it's only composite video.

I also have a 12x8 RGBHV Extron switcher w/audio that I am unsure what to do with. I think MSRP on that sucker is near $10K. Great piece, I just have no need for it.
 
C

calgarianperson

Junior Audioholic
Ok thats cool... Now I have been going through some sketchs I made of what I would like to be able to do in certain places and if I get a VideoRequest unit like I plan to to utilize the features could I use the ml-500 and the projector screen or would I have to utilize a touchpanel???

Also If you have a street price on a videorequest unit i would appreciate it as the only info I have is the MSRP of 2500...

Finally I am wondering about the programming of my system... There is a local company that I plan to get alot of the gear through... get them to assist with some of the install of the Crestron and the programming of it so I am wondering how much it costs to program a system like the one that I have proposed? As well since your in the industry what would be a fair rate to pay for this kind of service????
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I've not looked at the VideoRequest and don't have pricing info on that at all. I imagine the 10-20% under MSRP is realistic, as I do NOT believe it is available online. So, you are stuck with some higher-end shops.

The request units that I have worked with up to now have all had excellent GUIs that work well on-screen. You can navigate them beautifully with a handheld remote, emulating their own remote that comes with it, or you can use a 2-way panel and not use an on-screen gui. So, yes, unless it is way different then their other products, you can use the ML-500 and the projector with the videorequest, should be no problem at all.

Programming is a huge variable and can run from about 24 hours (minimum with what you have) to a couple hundred hours - Average is likely closer to 40-60 hours. I would expect it to take me about 32 hours to program it. Rates in our area are right in the $110 - $125.00/hr range for both commercial and residential work. The stuff I do personally I charge 80 an hour for which is a good shot less than others charge in my area. It really depends on how many panels need to be programmed though and the level of 'custom' you want. I shoot for good, solid, NON-CONFUSING, control. This leaves some advanced features for the homeowner to use with the GUIs, owners manuals, and remote that came with the product... The biggest benefit is that the rest of the family can use the system and not screw things up. Everyone uses it, only YOU can adjust the fine settings.

There is a fair amount I could work with you on with this, even long distance, if your local guy charges to much or is taking to long. That's something for you to decide obviously.
 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top