Need (~$350) musical sub to pair with Arx A1s. ED A3S-250? HSU STF-2? CSX-12 Mark II?

[schizoid]

I am one [of many, it'd seem] very sad people who missed out on the $329 Emotiva Ultra 12, which by all appearances would be PERFECT for me. But a matter of days. Oh well.

So I need a musical sub for my near field bedroom music setup. I spend a ridiculous amount of time at my desk, finishing my dissertation, so I figured I should get a decent setup! =]

These will be paired with my new Arx A1 bookshelf speakers. (I could also use an upgraded integrated amp and DAC, seeing as I'm using an old Pioneer receiver and a Firewire Miglia HarmonyAudio interface, but that's another story entirely)

1. Your budget:

Around $350 shipped/tax to Los Angeles. Among other things, this means I can probably go talk to Mr. Hsu himself (we've actually e-mailed a couple of times)

2. Size requirements/limits.

None.

3. Room dimensions.

14 x 12 x 10. Small/medium size bedroom with no permanent openings to other rooms.

4. Primary uses.

Almost 100% music. It's possible I could watch a movie in my bedroom, but this isn't a major consideration.

5. Listening habits.

This is pretty near field, as the bookshelves are on my Ikea Jerker desk, and the A1's are about 3' from the listening position. The sub would be maybe a little farther away.

As such, I don't listen to music at blaring levels, although when I'm up and about in my room I like to crank it up. I am actually worried about things being a little overwhelming, since those A1s actually have decent bass response on their own, I really can't blast them without it being unpleasant / hurting my ears (which isn't to say it sounds bad, but just that it's too loud)

6. Appearance requirements.

None.

7. Timeframe.

None.


So, I was originally thinking about the HSU STF-2, and if it was on sale I'd probably get it. As it stands, it's $350 + tax (about $30 in CA). I could pick it up, so I'd save on shipping. Alternatively, the eD A3s-250 would be $350 shipped. I was *thisclose* to pulling the trigger on that, except they're going to [sorta?] discontinue it as of Feb 15th. I'm not sure how I feel about buying a product that'll no longer be in production. I'm open to other suggestions.


So that's pretty much it, I think. Cliff's notes:

- $350ish budget
- Small/medium sized bedroom
- Almost 100% music
- Desktop application

I mentioned some of the subs that I've been looking at in the title. Let me know what you think, and I appreciate your feedback! Thanks!

 

[Jeff R.]

I would look on Audiogon for a used sub, there are many on the site and many from the LA area or southern Cali. Get a sealed 10" or 12" sub, you could likely pick it up yourself and then pay no tax or shipping fees.....

 

[schizoid]

I would look on Audiogon for a used sub, there are many on the site and many from the LA area or southern Cali. Get a sealed 10" or 12" sub, you could likely pick it up yourself and then pay no tax or shipping fees.....

Thanks, but I think I'd prefer new, not used or DIY.

 

[its phillip]

i think i would choose the cadence or ed, not that i've used either of them.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Since you don't have any size requirements :
Premier Acoustic PA-150 1000 Watt Powered Subwoo

Make them an offer for $350 - I know they sold these for $340 before
or use coupon code TV15 to get automatic 15% off to $361

based on this data:
http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/subwoofer-measurement-data/Audioholic-data-final.xlsx

it have tons of power an can be eQ down for flatter response

 

[j_garcia]

Did eD list a replacement for that sub? Maybe you want to wait to see what that is? I am not familiar with their subs, but I have listened to the CSX-12MkII and it is a good all around performer.

 

[theJman]

Along with those already mentioned here are few more to consider...

Martin Logan Dynamo 300
Outlaw Audio M8
Premier Acoustics PA-120 and PA-10W

The last two are smaller versions of the PA-150 suggested above, in case the size of the larger unit is an issue.

 

[Jeff R.]

How about the Velodyne Impact 10.....$329 shipped and tax free...

 

[seylermoon]

In a similar boat as the OP

I'm not trying to take anything away from the OP here; I'm just finding myself in a similar situation, so maybe some of my thoughts could help others find the right advice for myself as well as the OP. I am also a student and don't have any particular need for an earth-shattering HT system - although I certainly don't mind a bit of power - as my main use (85%) would be for music. I also am sulking over missing the Emotiva sales as well .

I've been looking into getting a sub to compliment a pair of Infinity Primus P152BKs that I recently picked up from a friend for $50. I also have a Harman Kardon 3490 receiver that intend to put into use for my stereo system in my apartment. I just don't have a sub to round out the 2.1 package.

Like the OP, I am willing to spend about $350, although that would be closer to my maximum. I've been searching many threads and have heard many recommendations for the BIC America subs from the F-12 to the PL-200, and the enigmatic VK-12. At one point, I was leaning toward the VK-12, hearing that that sub was preferable for music as it is "tighter", but I wasn't convinced by the opinions of only a few people. I have also looked at the Acoustech H-100 and Premier Acoustics PA-120, but I can't seem to find any reasonable comparisons with the BIC America subs.

Personally, I think I would be willing to shoot for the VK-12, but maybe there's something that would perform better for music (especially for some of the electro-house and DnB I occasionally listen to)?

Regarding the upper-end of the $350 range, I would too be willing to spring for the HSU STF-2 if the price were right. Would it actually be a good idea to find a deal on the eD A3S-250, even though it will be discontinued soon? Making the decision has been rather difficult, as I've heard multiple times people state that $500 is somehow a rather significant (if rather arbitrary) dividing line between entry-level and truly good subs. As MSRPs seem to always be inflated, if someone happens across a good deal for one of these subs, please let me (and the OP!) know!

Thanks in advance,

seylermoon

 

[seylermoon]

I just got off the phone with a friend who is willing to sell me his barely-used Velodyne DLS-4000R for $370 (including shipping). His main sub has been the VTF-3 and for some reason hasn't really gotten use out of the Velodyne (apparently). He said that it's great for music and that's what he bought it for, but he recently upgraded to the VTF-15H and no longer has room to store another sub. But, he warned me that the Velodyne, despite sounding great for music, is cut off below 25Hz and so may not be a good choice for movies.

As I trust him on the condition of the sub, it seems like a really nice deal to be able to step into a higher-level sub without having to spend over $400 on a Hsu or $500 on an SVS. Nevertheless, the filtering at the bottom frequencies still bothers me. Is this something that I will really notice if I happen to watch movies? Will it take away that "impact" that can at times be felt during bass-heavy tracks.

Any thoughts are appreciated!

 

[Nuance AH]

If I had $350 to spend I'd get a Premiere Acoustics PA-150. Check out the output specs at this website:

Premier Acoustic PA-150 Data-Bass test results - AVS Forum

If you're a member of AVS forum you will receive a discount by mentioning it wen buying the subwoofer.

 

[theJman]

But, he warned me that the Velodyne, despite sounding great for music, is cut off below 25Hz and so may not be a good choice for movies. Nevertheless, the filtering at the bottom frequencies still bothers me. Is this something that I will really notice if I happen to watch movies? Will it take away that "impact" that can at times be felt during bass-heavy tracks.

That depends upon what he means by "cut off". If the subs -3dB point is 25Hz -- at a decent output level -- then I'm not sure you'll be missing much. So long as the output (volume) is sufficient even -5dB is still quite usable.

As I trust him on the condition of the sub, it seems like a really nice deal to be able to step into a higher-level sub without having to spend over $400 on a Hsu or $500 on an SVS.

I'm not advocating you do/don't buy the Velodyne, but I can relay some of my experience...

Whatever sub you think will work is the smallest one you should consider. Realistically, the next size up is probably the better choice. You can always adjust the gain to level match the sub down, but you can't increase the extension if it's not there to begin with.

Using HSU as an example... if you feel the STF-1 will "be enough" then buy the STF-2 instead. While the initial up-front cost might create a bit of consternation, once you have it the concern will more then likely disappear. What's that old axiom? Do it right, or do it twice. That most definitely applies when purchasing a sub. I doubt you'll ever question spending an additional $50-$75, but I suspect the "what if" will happen if you don't.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I just got off the phone with a friend who is willing to sell me his barely-used Velodyne DLS-4000R for $370 (including shipping). His main sub has been the VTF-3 and for some reason hasn't really gotten use out of the Velodyne (apparently). He said that it's great for music and that's what he bought it for, but he recently upgraded to the VTF-15H and no longer has room to store another sub. But, he warned me that the Velodyne, despite sounding great for music, is cut off below 25Hz and so may not be a good choice for movies.

As I trust him on the condition of the sub, it seems like a really nice deal to be able to step into a higher-level sub without having to spend over $400 on a Hsu or $500 on an SVS. Nevertheless, the filtering at the bottom frequencies still bothers me. Is this something that I will really notice if I happen to watch movies? Will it take away that "impact" that can at times be felt during bass-heavy tracks.

Any thoughts are appreciated!

a) you're "friend" is robbing you blind
Velodyne DLS4000R Factory Renewed Black 12-inch 200-watt Powered Subwoofer with Remote, In Stock at OneCall.com
b) check for measured results I liked above - PA-150 will have significantly higher output than the velo
c) more money almost always mean better sub - the sky is the limit, but OP wanted a sub for a budget of $350

 

[seylermoon]

Currently, my room is pretty darn small, around 9'x15', so everything I've considered so far is more than enough. As I will certainly move within the next six months, I cannot say for sure in what kind of room my new sub would be placed.

Also, the Audioholics store is selling new Velodyne DLS-4000Rs for $400 shipped, which would be cut down to $360 after their %10 coupon from "liking" them on facebook. Maybe that makes it a bit more enticing?

 

[seylermoon]

a) you're "friend" is robbing you blind

See my more recent post, as I also became aware of these deals. I'm sure he wasn't and thought that selling a barely-used sub he bought for $550+ for under $400 wasn't a bad deal - he just didn't look around (and neither did I). I called my friend about this pricing and he said he'd be willing to drop his offer to $330 or $320. That may not be a bad deal.

b) check for measured results I liked above - PA-150 will have significantly higher output than the velo
c) more money almost always mean better sub - the sky is the limit, but OP wanted a sub for a budget of $350

The problem is that subs rarely sell for their retail prices unless they are sold only through the manufacturer. So then one must compare the lowest prices they can find on particular subs. Of course, that's re-asks the original question: does one gives a bit more bang for the buck that the OP and I have?

Ultimately, we're back at square one:

Is the PA-150 for $350 (shipped) a better deal than the DLS-4000R for $360 (shipped)?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

See my more recent post, as I also became aware of these deals. I'm sure he wasn't and thought that selling a barely-used sub he bought for $550+ for under $400 wasn't a bad deal - he just didn't look around (and neither did I). I called my friend about this pricing and he said he'd be willing to drop his offer to $330 or $320. That may not be a bad deal.

Besides the deal I posted, didn't you said you could get get for $360 New? Used (even lightly) for $320-330 sounds to me like your friend is penny and dimming you. To be fair i'd consider $250 to be a fair price a 30% discount of retail price, because of it's good condition, otherwise I'd insist of 50% or heavier discount on used item.

The problem is that subs rarely sell for their retail prices unless they are sold only through the manufacturer. So then one must compare the lowest prices they can find on particular subs. Of course, that's re-asks the original question: does one gives a bit more bang for the buck that the OP and I have?

Ultimately, we're back at square one:

Is the PA-150 for $350 (shipped) a better deal than the DLS-4000R for $360 (shipped)?

Bottom line: Velodine make some kick-behind subs, but NEVER cheap. They also build cheap subs...

I own PA-120 and can vouch for it's performance in my large living room. PA-150 is a clear upgrade in both size of driver, box and beefier amp
So, yes - I strongly consider PA-150 for $350 shipped much better deal than DLS-4000R for even $250

 

[seylermoon]

Okay, so it sounds like I've got one vote for the PA-150!

Any thoughts on the HSU STF-2? I have read that it is preferred for music, as it sacrifices some extension for tighter bass in the 40Hz range. This sounds optimal for music listening.

PA-150 for $350 or HSU STF-2 for $350? Maybe it's worth waiting to see if the HSU goes on sale...

 

[schizoid]

I am one [of many, it'd seem] very sad people who missed out on the $329 Emotiva Ultra 12, which by all appearances would be PERFECT for me. But a matter of days. Oh well.

So I need a musical sub for my near field bedroom music setup. I spend a ridiculous amount of time at my desk, finishing my dissertation, so I figured I should get a decent setup! =]

These will be paired with my new Arx A1 bookshelf speakers. (I could also use an upgraded integrated amp and DAC, seeing as I'm using an old Pioneer receiver and a Firewire Miglia HarmonyAudio interface, but that's another story entirely)

1. Your budget:

Around $350 shipped/tax to Los Angeles. Among other things, this means I can probably go talk to Mr. Hsu himself (we've actually e-mailed a couple of times)

2. Size requirements/limits.

None.

3. Room dimensions.

14 x 12 x 10. Small/medium size bedroom with no permanent openings to other rooms.

4. Primary uses.

Almost 100% music. It's possible I could watch a movie in my bedroom, but this isn't a major consideration.

5. Listening habits.

This is pretty near field, as the bookshelves are on my Ikea Jerker desk, and the A1's are about 3' from the listening position. The sub would be maybe a little farther away.

As such, I don't listen to music at blaring levels, although when I'm up and about in my room I like to crank it up. I am actually worried about things being a little overwhelming, since those A1s actually have decent bass response on their own, I really can't blast them without it being unpleasant / hurting my ears (which isn't to say it sounds bad, but just that it's too loud)

6. Appearance requirements.

None.

7. Timeframe.

None.


So, I was originally thinking about the HSU STF-2, and if it was on sale I'd probably get it. As it stands, it's $350 + tax (about $30 in CA). I could pick it up, so I'd save on shipping. Alternatively, the eD A3s-250 would be $350 shipped. I was *thisclose* to pulling the trigger on that, except they're going to [sorta?] discontinue it as of Feb 15th. I'm not sure how I feel about buying a product that'll no longer be in production. I'm open to other suggestions.


So that's pretty much it, I think. Cliff's notes:

- $350ish budget
- Small/medium sized bedroom
- Almost 100% music
- Desktop application

I mentioned some of the subs that I've been looking at in the title. Let me know what you think, and I appreciate your feedback! Thanks!

For what it's worth, I ordered the eD A3s-250. It should be in here in around 3 weeks.

 

[seylermoon]

For what it's worth, I ordered the eD A3s-250. It should be in here in around 3 weeks.

Oh, man. I'm not even sure I can resist my temptations long enough to hear what you have to say. I've heard of people comparing this to the Emotiva's; I've also heard many say that the Emotiva's are awesome for music. I can only hope that the A3s-250 can live up to that standard as well.

 

[Nuance AH]

Congrats on your new purchase - Enjoy!