NAD T765 HD/upgrade

T

trtu

Audiophyte
Hello,

Please be gentle, this is my first post :)

I have had this NAD 5.1 receiver & amp for 3 years now, it sounds great (in my humble opinion) with a pair of Usher X-719.
Mostly playing them from a old Network Xtreamer Sidewinder 2 with optical fiber connection.

From what I understand "The T765 HD uses five two-channel PCM1791A Burr Brown internal DACs", might be one of the reason that the quality of the sound is so good.


I am now considering an upgrade, adding a Yamaha A-S2100 amp + and old Network player Yahama NP S-2000 (keeping the NAD device for 5.1 movies only)

I am well aware of the fact that I am not comparing apples with apples here, still, do you thing that this new setup would bring benefits in form of better sound quality compared with the old setup?

Looking forward a feedback or two :)

Thank you
Tudor
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
Usher Audio - Nice!!!

And I do not believe the sound quality would benefit.
 
Last edited:
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I wouldn't spend money on such a change as I wouldn't expect a significant change in audio quality. I'd probably look instead at better speakers. Or adding a sub or various other things rather than change amplification let alone dac chip....
 
T

trtu

Audiophyte
Thank you for your inputs.
It's probably worth mentioning that I listen classic music around 80% of time. The sub is used for movies only.
Usher Audio make their own drivers, not to mention Joe D'appolito contribution to their development.
They seems to be build for life, highly underrated IMHO.

The main question here is, could a receiver/amp in the same price segment be equally good as a Full amp?
Maybe a bit stupid question...
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
Thank you for your inputs.
It's probably worth mentioning that I listen classic music around 80% of time. The sub is used for movies only.
Usher Audio make their own drivers, not to mention Joe D'appolito contribution to their development.
They seems to be build for life, highly underrated IMHO.

The main question here is, could a receiver/amp in the same price segment be equally good as a Full amp?
Maybe a bit stupid question...
Based on the specs of your speakers I doubt you would benefit from external amplification

I had the Usher Dancers at my house to listen to and quite surprised at the sound quality
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
If you're happy with the speakers then spend the money on more things to listen to? I did look up your speakers and they are probably quite good. but there's always better otoh. No I don't think you're going to gain sound quality with the electronics change...its just an integrated amp, nothing particularly exciting about it.
 
T

trtu

Audiophyte
I love the Ushers, so will consider a speaker upgrade (same brand) in the future...
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Hello,

Please be gentle, this is my first post :)

I have had this NAD 5.1 receiver & amp for 3 years now, it sounds great (in my humble opinion) with a pair of Usher X-719.
Mostly playing them from a old Network Xtreamer Sidewinder 2 with optical fiber connection.

From what I understand "The T765 HD uses five two-channel PCM1791A Burr Brown internal DACs", might be one of the reason that the quality of the sound is so good.


I am now considering an upgrade, adding a Yamaha A-S2100 amp + and old Network player Yahama NP S-2000 (keeping the NAD device for 5.1 movies only)

I am well aware of the fact that I am not comparing apples with apples here, still, do you thing that this new setup would bring benefits in form of better sound quality compared with the old setup?

Looking forward a feedback or two :)

Thank you
Tudor
I would give you some objective feedback (mostly based on datasheets, Owner's manual, online reviews and service manual's information) on the DAC and pre/pro side as follow:

- The PCM1791 was also used by Denon, possible Marantz and Yamaha too in those days as it was very popular at the time.

- That TI, or Burr Brown if you prefer, DAC IC has average specs, can't compare of today's AK4458 used in Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, or the ES9006, 9026 used in Yamaha's AVRs. The newer DAC ICs have distortions 7 dB or better than the PCM1791.

- The DAC IC is typically not the bottleneck in the preamp/processor section, the volume control was the real bottleneck as in those days, they typically used a LSI IC, NAD, like D+M, Y, O, all have used the Renesas's volume control chip.

On the power amp side, the NAD likely has a relatively strong power supply for its rated output, but the output devices were only 10 A rated, relative to comparable D+M, and Y's that have been using 15 A ones. The hearsay about NAD AVRs being more conservatively rated than other major brands appeared to be hearsay from innovative marketing hypes the successfully promote, to justify their higher prices.

On the subjective side, if it sounds good to you, then it sounds good to you it doesn't matter what others say anyway.
 
T

trtu

Audiophyte
Thank you very much for your time, this is what I was looking for in terms of DAC chips info.

Even though the DAC chip itself may have a small contribution to the sound, around 10% from what I hear, is is important to have a very good HW base to be able to implement on.
NAD definitely use "innovative marketing" to boost their prices up, it's a reality.

So probably I'll see a bigger difference in sound, upgrading the speakers and get a more up to date device, ex. the NAD 778
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Thank you very much for your time, this is what I was looking for in terms of DAC chips info.

Even though the DAC chip itself may have a small contribution to the sound, around 10% from what I hear, is is important to have a very good HW base to be able to implement on.
NAD definitely use "innovative marketing" to boost their prices up, it's a reality.
Difference from "better implementation" is, in my opinion and experience, overrated. One example I can give you is my experience with Oppo's BDP players that used top ESS DACs. I bought in to their marketing hype on their implementation approach, when they first introduced the Oppo 95. That thing used a separate 8 channel ESS Sabre flag ship DAC ES9018 (old now but still have better specs that any AVR/AVP's) of today's for two channel stereo playback.

It used all 8 channels for just two channel stereo (4 DAC output per channel), below was the marketing bs at the time, quoted from Absolute Sound:


"Dedicated stereo analog output: The BDP-95 offers a dedicated stereo analog output with “specially optimized ES9018 DAC and output driving stages.” Oppo adds that, “each output is driven by 4 DAC channels stacking together to achieve even higher performance.” The stereo output offers two sets of output connectors with different associated drive circuitry. One set provides XLR balanced connectors while the other provides RCA single-ended connectors. Oppo emphasizes, “the balanced output features a true differential signal path all the way from the DAC to the 3-pin XLR connector.” There are even setup options for running normal or inverted XLR pin-out polarity configurations. Frankly, these are the sorts of features you might expect to see in multi-thousand-dollar audio-only players, but that are more-or-less unheard of in universal players selling for under $1000. "

So the specs of the 95 were considered excellent in those days, much better than my Denon DVD3910 that I paid much more for, than what I paid for the Oppo. Did it sound better? No, not to me anyway. The Denon used a higher mid range PCM1796 (much better than the 1791) that has specs far below that of the Opp's ES9018, and implementation was nothing special, not stacked, no differential connections, but it sounded just as good.

Within a couple years, I traded the 95 in for the BDP-105. By that time Oppo has given up the stacked approach so it only need half of the DAC channels, but it managed to measure better than the 95 in THD+N iirc.

Better implementation will get you better SNR, THD, all else being equal, but the difference won't be audible to humans.

So probably I'll see a bigger difference in sound, upgrading the speakers and get a more up to date device, ex. the NAD 778
I dare say you will definitely hear a bigger difference, by upgrading he speaker, and get a more up to date device, but NAD would not be a good choice because you will pay more for less, less in terms of lower measurable performance. However, if you believe in the benefits of using Dirac Live, then it could be your best choice. I played with the trial two channel version, like the interface, but did not find it any better than Audyssey in the range below the room transition frequency based on plotted graphs and my subjective listening comparison.
 
T

trtu

Audiophyte
ok, so afterall, is down to try and error (or experimenting) approach.
 
T

trtu

Audiophyte
What EQ or DSP would you recommend to start with?

I searched a little bit and found these 2 products:
miniDSP 2x4 HD kit
MiniDSP 2x4 HD kit, a USB DAC+DSP in a low cost package powered by a powerful Sharc 400MHz floating point DSP
www.minidsp.com www.minidsp.com
Behringer-DEQ2496-Ultracurve-Pro-digitaler-EQ

Are these something worth playing around with?

Thank you so much for your feedback
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The miniDSP 2x4 and the Behringer DEQ2496 units are particularly useful for integrating subs with avrs, especially for multiple sub setups (altho the Audyssey XT32/SubEQ equipped avrs can inherently handle two different subs for level/delay); with an avr to use them for your speakers as active crossovers with subs you'd need external amps (or pre-out/main-in or processing/tape loops on older 2ch gear).
 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top