SVS PB12-Plus DSP Subwoofer Review

A

admin

Audioholics Robot
Staff member
THE SVS PB12-Plus DSP is a self-powered front-loaded vented subwoofer featuring a proprietary 12" long throw driver and 800 watt amplifier with single knob DSP implemented control over filtering, equalization and compression functions. Weighing in at 125lbs+ and costing slightly under $1400, it's no lightweight, and requires more than a little bit of real estate. From its ungodly output capabilities, true 20Hz extension, and ability to play clean and distortion free, the PB12-Plus DSP has truly earned the right to be called a "subwoofer". It's no wonder this mighty sub was the recipient of the Audioholics coveted 2010 Product of the Year award in the subwoofer category. Highly recommended!


Discuss "SVS PB12-Plus DSP Subwoofer Review" here. Read the article.
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
Pretty much the only nitpicks in the review were on its looks...which I totally disagree with! I think it's a great looking sub, and apparently an excellent performer as well. I'm eager to see the other reviews as well.
 
emorphien

emorphien

Audioholic General
I'd really have to see one in person to pass judgement on the looks. The design doesn't look bad to me in the pics online but whether that translates to a good first person experience, no idea.

I have to admit though that I'm not a big fan of most sub finishes I see, usually opting for nondescript flat black.
 
B

Bass Bum

Audioholic Intern
I'll take mine in piano gloss black, thank you very much! :D
 
K

kevon27

Annoying Poster
I don't understand the 4 rating for appearance. If you compare SVS subs to say Elemental Designs subs, SVS wins hands down in looks.
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
Having just read the review, I'm not surprised. When the time came for me to upgrade....the pb12 plus was high on my list but was cost prohibitive at the time. I can't speak for the other mfg's in this review but I'm confident the fw12x version entered here should keep pace based on some prior conversations....if the driver and power are any indication it would have to be...unless of course?

Can't wait, Bill...:)
 
R

Ron Temple

Senior Audioholic
Very well written review...

Question: Since the Plus received a POY award, does this mean it aced the shootout? If so, that's letting the cat out of the bag a bit.
 
avliner

avliner

Audioholic Chief
IMHO, I'd rate it 5 stars for appearance... kinda sexy look, though :)
 
GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
I'm sure the cylinder has pretty much identical performace too, so what about it's apperance? I'd give it 5 stars as well, I like the way it looks, plus they offer more than one or two finishes.
 
S

SHAudio

Audiophyte
I just ordered a PB12-plus in cherry. After looking at the finish samples SVS kindly sent, I think it will actually match my Polk Lsi 9's pretty well. Most important, of course, is the performance, which will be greatly improved from my current set up.

I can't wait to get and fire it up!
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
I don't understand why so many are confused about the 4 star rating for the appearance. If, in person, the wood veneer looks almost indistinguishable from vinyl (as is claimed in the article), it certainly does not deserve more than 4 stars for looks, or probably even that high. This is especially true on a big obtrusive box, which in itself is generally undesirable.

Basically, if one has not seen it in person, one cannot properly judge how it looks. Pictures can be very deceiving.
 
GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
So get the gloss black, and give it 5 stars for appearance.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
you guys crack me up. Either people complain b/c our ratings are too high for a product or b/c we are too critical and the ratings are too low. The SVS sub got one of the most glowing reviews to date of any sub we've ever reviewed so quit your b1tch'n! :rolleyes:
 
A

audioholic212

Audioholic
you guys crack me up. Either people complain b/c our ratings are too high for a product or b/c we are too critical and the ratings are too low. The SVS sub got one of the most glowing reviews to date of any sub we've ever reviewed so quit your b1tch'n! :rolleyes:
Welcome to the internet, Gene. :p

Btw, I am on your side... :)
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
you guys crack me up. Either people complain b/c our ratings are too high for a product or b/c we are too critical and the ratings are too low. The SVS sub got one of the most glowing reviews to date of any sub we've ever reviewed so quit your b1tch'n! :rolleyes:
But it is what we do best!:D
 
ntrain42

ntrain42

Junior Audioholic
you guys crack me up. Either people complain b/c our ratings are too high for a product or b/c we are too critical and the ratings are too low. The SVS sub got one of the most glowing reviews to date of any sub we've ever reviewed so quit your b1tch'n! :rolleyes:
Personally, I think people should get over reviewers giving opinions and ratings on appearance. Everybody has their own personal preference.

One thing I would like to see though on these "subwoofer" tests is a bit more uniformity and more detail analysis on subs BESIDES what their order harmonics are at or above full rated power right at or just below dirver compression.

Its fine and dandy to know what the order harmonic distortion/group delay etc. is at or near clipping point. But what about testing these products at 1 watt RMS and also test at half power(-3db from "rated" max rms)roughly as well to see how these subs truely behave? Alot of people Im sure would like to know how these units test out under normal loads.

Also, whats up with the incomplete test on the Emotiva Ultra 12? All that was given was an SPL plot literally. No plots for GD or HD at all. Just opinionated feelings on "sound quality". WOuld have been nice to have some spread sheet measurements to see how well it really did. I have looked over 3-4 different subwoofer reviews, and all of them were tested differently or some omitted good viable test parameters on true performance.
 
emorphien

emorphien

Audioholic General
Personally, I think people should get over reviewers giving opinions and ratings on appearance. Everybody has their own personal preference.
Agreed. I happen to think the appearance rating is pretty close to spot on. Overall design and fit and finish are nice and look to be of high quality (well, it is an SVS after all) but I agree that the giant slabs of vinyl-ish looking stuff on the sides probably isn't so snazzy in person. Would have to see it as I believe I mentioned before but overall I wouldn't complain about having one in my system. I'd go all black but if they send out free samples of the siding for matching your decor then maybe another would work.

One thing I would like to see though on these "subwoofer" tests is a bit more uniformity and more detail analysis on subs BESIDES what their order harmonics are at or above full rated power right at or just below dirver compression.

Its fine and dandy to know what the order harmonic distortion/group delay etc. is at or near clipping point. But what about testing these products at 1 watt RMS and also test at half power(-3db from "rated" max rms)roughly as well to see how these subs truely behave? Alot of people Im sure would like to know how these units test out under normal loads.

Also, whats up with the incomplete test on the Emotiva Ultra 12? All that was given was an SPL plot literally. No plots for GD or HD at all. Just opinionated feelings on "sound quality". WOuld have been nice to have some spread sheet measurements to see how well it really did. I have looked over 3-4 different subwoofer reviews, and all of them were tested differently or some omitted good viable test parameters on true performance.
I've noticed some inconsistencies as well and had been thinking about bringing it up but I wasn't really decided on how to. Is there a specific guideline you [Audioholics] follow when reviewing products? Obviously they might have to differ for different product types but all subwoofers should ideally be tested and reviewed in the same way and the reviews structured to follow some sort of standard format.
 
ntrain42

ntrain42

Junior Audioholic
Agreed. I happen to think the appearance rating is pretty close to spot on. Overall design and fit and finish are nice and look to be of high quality (well, it is an SVS after all) but I agree that the giant slabs of vinyl-ish looking stuff on the sides probably isn't so snazzy in person. Would have to see it as I believe I mentioned before but overall I wouldn't complain about having one in my system. I'd go all black but if they send out free samples of the siding for matching your decor then maybe another would work.



I've noticed some inconsistencies as well and had been thinking about bringing it up but I wasn't really decided on how to. Is there a specific guideline you [Audioholics] follow when reviewing products? Obviously they might have to differ for different product types but all subwoofers should ideally be tested and reviewed in the same way and the reviews structured to follow some sort of standard format.
Yep on personal appearance, nobody should get bunched up over whats given from one persons OWN opinion, take that with a grain of salt. What looks poor to one, may be great to another. :)


As for testing guidlines, and the obnoxious inconsistencies on how a product is review. Here is what I think:

A. No problem giving a subs max SPL point right below driver compression with the natural frequency response from X hz to Y hz, with an accomanying plot showing the differing order harmonic distortion along with group delay.

B. This same test should then be performed -3db down from compression point which should be right around half rms power. Again give specs like group delay, and the order harmonics. This same complete test should be performed once again at minimal power of around 1-2 watt rms depending on an 8/4 ohm load.

C. There should be also be a test performed to find the true sensitivity of a given sub. Sensitivity is rarely given. This alone would be a good measurement given to find out roughly if you sub solution your pondering can
keep up with the main system speakers. SUbs generally have much lower sensitivy values that typical speakers today. So knowing if a single sub(or possibly if multiple subs are needed) can keep up with the dynamic capabilities of your main speakers would be good knowledge to have.

For example one of systems has a 200x5 power amp running speakers with a sensitivity value of around 87-90db with 1 watt/8ohms. I run 3 15" subs in parallel (grouped together)to make sure I have enough dynamic range to not clip the subs even at high output bursts. It allows me to keep the gains much lower reducing any potential for harmonic distortion/clipping and gives my subs much better dynamic abilities to keep up with my main speakers. Now I know my speakers probably only use 1-2 watts rms during normal playback, but there are without question plenty of dynamic bursts that will easily hit 15-20db over normal RMS power output. Now if I was using just one single 15" driver, to equal my main speakers at 1-2 watts rms, it would probably have to be outputting 16-32 watts rms or even a bit higher even. So I run a few extra to drop the amplifier output so that each sub RMS power is closer in line with my main speakers. What I wish I knew was the true sensitivity of my sub so I didnt have to guesstimate how many I would need to keep the dynamic capabilities in line with my main speakers. So as budget has allowed, Ive added a couple more in the process. I will probably run a total of 4 when funds allow.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Its fine and dandy to know what the order harmonic distortion/group delay etc. is at or near clipping point. But what about testing these products at 1 watt RMS and also test at half power(-3db from "rated" max rms)roughly as well to see how these subs truely behave? Alot of people Im sure would like to know how these units test out under normal loads.

Also, whats up with the incomplete test on the Emotiva Ultra 12? All that was given was an SPL plot literally. No plots for GD or HD at all. Just opinionated feelings on "sound quality". WOuld have been nice to have some spread sheet measurements to see how well it really did. I have looked over 3-4 different subwoofer reviews, and all of them were tested differently or some omitted good viable test parameters on true performance.
Seems like the more detail you give people the more they complain. There was a lot of good analysis done of this product in Paul's review aside from the graphs but I am sure it went over most peoples heads since all they care about are instant gratification #s.

Regarding measurements of Phase/Group Delay & Sensitivity
Paul did not do phase measurements. He feels they are VERY misleading when you have a DSP FIR filter vs an analog IIR filter. They would also change for every setting of the LP, HP and rate of slope. In addition, putting these out without discussing the much more salient problem of combining the sub with the woofer in the transistion band, is really an article unto itself.

Everyone will be looking at the group delay, making judgments on that without concern over phase in the 80 - 160 hz region which for a sub is more important. There is also NO one right answer and a great deal depends on the combining technique with the satellite speakers.

I am in total agreement with Paul here and his experience in this field as both a designer and transducer engineer dwarfs many self proclaimed experts on this topic.

As for sensitivity measurements, they make no sense for a powered product. What makes more sense is max SPL data which we provided. This way you know how much output the product will provide when matching it to your satellite speakers. Realize of course when you place a sub in a real room, depending on placement location you can see anywhere between 10-15dB of gain not seen in the groundplane measurement.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I've noticed some inconsistencies as well and had been thinking about bringing it up but I wasn't really decided on how to. Is there a specific guideline you [Audioholics] follow when reviewing products? Obviously they might have to differ for different product types but all subwoofers should ideally be tested and reviewed in the same way and the reviews structured to follow some sort of standard format.
In a perfect world that would be nice. In such a world, we wouldn't need money and everyone would captain a Galaxy class starship and have plenty of Romulan ale at hand :)

We do our best to test consistently. All of our subwoofer measurements are done outdoors 1 meter groundplane unless otherwise noted. We typically use 60dB scales so you can see what's going on. I've seen some of our competition do nonsense in-room distortion measurements with 120dB or larger scales. One very prominent subwoofer reviewer who I originally hired for a project was insistent upon only doing in-room measurements with the sub in the corner of his room. Needless to say, I had to cancel his review and let him go. We fully disclose how we conduct our measurements and note any biases that may exist when doing comparative measurements or listening tests between products.

With all the detail we give, its up to the reader to do a little homework and research our comments (not just measurements) to truly gauge how each product performs. I think we do a pretty darn good job of laying it all out for people. I recently tried to do some research on Digital Pianos and Dishwashers and found nothing but useless 1 paragraph write-ups that read like press releases and spec sheets. I find this to be true with most of the audio press as well.

That all being said, I am working with some of our seasoned reviewers like Mark Sanfilipo to bring more unity to our subwoofer measurements based on his very own articles on this topic that he wrote for us.

I suggest reading the following two articles:

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/subwoofer-measurement-part-1

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/subwoofer-measurements
 
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