Sony CEO Uncertain of Blu-ray Future

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Audioholics Robot
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After the spanking Blu-ray got at the hands of HD DVD recently, Sony's CEO Sir Howard Stringer commented that the two formats are in a "stalemate" according to the Associated Press. While he doesn't cite the falling prices of HD DVD players compared to their own "budget" $400 players, he did mention that the coup HD DVD pulled by wooing Paramount into an exclusive deal as being a deciding factor in the current state of the format war.


Discuss "Sony CEO Uncertain of Blu-ray Future" here. Read the article.
 
gliz

gliz

Full Audioholic
I posted in another thread (the last BD player review that, (IMHO) HD has all but won the war. Reason being, the players are at a price point where most folks can afford one. Maybe that is too simple an approach but it "appears" to be the case. 400 bucks for a "budget" player is still a lot. Also there are to little letters that are all the rage today, HD, most everyone recognizes those too little letters. that ladies and gentleman is just my open. Still wont but one just yet though maybe in the spring, I need a SVS sub first :D
 
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sokrman14

Audioholic
You should read the whole article at Digitalbits.com by Bill Hunt in the "My two cents" section. He is not quite saying what was just reported.
 
gliz

gliz

Full Audioholic
you are right, he is not exactly saying that , but it is very very close. Like in the movie Highlander "there can be only one" before I jump in. I am old enough to rember getting burned on the whole batamax thing. :)
 
patnshan

patnshan

Senior Audioholic
LOL!!! What spanking is HD-DVD giving BD?????:confused:
The massive influx of HD DVD players sold in the last month is what I guess he means. Maybe also the very high attachment rates of HD DVD versus Blu Ray.

I love seeing the Sony CEO backpedal. He's said so many idiotic things in the past year that who knows what he will say next. I think he's acknowledged a clear victory publically at least three times, and this demonstrates an obvious change.

I also agree that without the PS3, Sony would have another Beta and mini disc on their hands alrerady. I suspect they will soo anyway unless they change their tactics (ie: lower prices drastically).

Pat
 
gliz

gliz

Full Audioholic
LOL!!! What spanking is HD-DVD giving BD?????:confused:
player prices for a start and finish. cheapest BD player is 400 dollars. that is a lot of money compared to 198 for a HD player. not to mention that Wal-mart has put their sales might to work with HD as well. seems to be leaning to HD to me, but I have been wrong before :)
 
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sokrman14

Audioholic
The only reason the attach numbers dont look as good is because they finally included the millions of ps3's that are in peoples homes, in terms of sheer amounts of discs sold it is still at almost 3-1 bluray. And that influx of HDDVD players was only for one weekend because they clearanced out their last few models of A2's that they were incapable of selling, now they are incapable of selling A3's instead. Even at $400-500 dollars the bluray players including ps3 are still outselling HDDVD players. They say that 40% of ps3 users dont know there is a bluray player in it, but what about 60% of the 10 million ps3's worldwide. That is about 6 million bluray players plus standalones, to about maybe 500,000 HDDVD players that Toshiba says they have in peoples homes.
 
gliz

gliz

Full Audioholic
if we are talking about stand alone players, using the ps3 i dont think that is an apples to apples comparison really. the PS3 is a gaming platform that can play BD disks.
 
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sokrman14

Audioholic
You are very correct it is a gaming platform, just as the XBOX360 and the WII. It is also a bluray player. I work retail and most people buying HDTV's buy the PS3 because it is one of the best bluray players available and as a bonus to them it plays video games. It is not just capable of playing bluray movies, it has all of the interactivity of any bluray on the market with the ability to update itself. It is the reason bluray is "winning" right now, and it will continue to stay that way because of it. It is more powerful than an XBOX and better than an HDDVD player. I guess it's easy to have high "Attach rates" when you give away 10 or more movies with a $99 piece o' crap... including giving away some of your premium titles. What the heck do they think people will buy then?
 
GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
if we are talking about stand alone players, using the ps3 i dont think that is an apples to apples comparison really. the PS3 is a gaming platform that can play BD disks.
Or it could be a bluray player that also plays games... depends on how you look at it. The 360 has an add on drive, so that can be included in the number of HD DVD players in homes.

My parents came over this weekend while I had Planet Earth playing on my HD DVD player, and after seeing that, they were interested in getting a HD DVD player if they could obtain one for about $100 like I did. But they have absolutely no interest in spending $400 or more on any kind of player, regardless of what it could do. I doubt they would even pay $200 for a HD player, so regardless of what each format has to offer, for many and I would dare say most consumers, price is the deciding factor for what will be purchased.
 
GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
You are very correct it is a gaming platform, just as the XBOX360 and the WII. It is also a bluray player. I work retail and most people buying HDTV's buy the PS3 because it is one of the best bluray players available and as a bonus to them it plays video games. It is not just capable of playing bluray movies, it has all of the interactivity of any bluray on the market with the ability to update itself. It is the reason bluray is "winning" right now, and it will continue to stay that way because of it. It is more powerful than an XBOX and better than an HDDVD player. I guess it's easy to have high "Attach rates" when you give away 10 or more movies with a $99 piece o' crap... including giving away some of your premium titles. What the heck do they think people will buy then?
I bought the HD DVD player because of the $99 price tag, so far the only drawback for me is that it takes longer than I would like for it to be ready to play a disc. That is just a fault of the player, and not the format. After watching a few titles on both formats, I say they are both pretty equal. So until I get a 1080p tv, I'm happy with the 1080i and 720p only output the HD A2 has, and I won't replace it until either another player that supports 1080p can be had for about $100, or the format war is over.

I did however buy my PS3 mainly because it was a bluray player, and since most games are available on PS3 and XBOX 360, I will buy the games for the 360 unless the PS3 version has some feature that makes it way better since I prefer the 360's controller, and I think XBOX Live is much better than PS3's online community. But I will be getting the new Gran Turismo whenever it comes out.
 
gliz

gliz

Full Audioholic
OK I will give you that , but what iif you are not a gamer, then what?
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
The massive influx of HD DVD players sold in the last month is what I guess he means. Maybe also the very high attachment rates of HD DVD versus Blu Ray.

I love seeing the Sony CEO backpedal. He's said so many idiotic things in the past year that who knows what he will say next. I think he's acknowledged a clear victory publically at least three times, and this demonstrates an obvious change.

I also agree that without the PS3, Sony would have another Beta and mini disc on their hands alrerady. I suspect they will soo anyway unless they change their tactics (ie: lower prices drastically).

Pat
It's interesting though, because the strategy of penetration pricing rarely works out the long run unless the company can afford to sustain that level of pricing. History has shown that price wars are silly- nobody wins in a price war except for the customer, and that's only in the short run. In a true price war companies will end up selling their products at the marginal cost for which it takes to build each new unit (specifically labor and parts) which doesn't include the fixed costs (overhead, factories, R&D). In the short run consumers win because prices are constantly dropping, and the producers "win" because they are covering their direct operating costs of producing the product. However, since prices eventually converge to a set level where neither competitor makes money on the incremental cost of producing another unit, and both are losing money on their overhead costs, prices will then rise back up to just about where they started- that is the point where the company can make a profit.

Three very good examples of this are the airline industry (pretty obvious), Satellite television in the UK (before consolidation), and the cereal industry. Cereals are interesting because they're actually quite expensive compared to most "staple" goods ($3-4.00 for a small box!). This is because the major players in the industry realized that after many attempts at price wars and driving each other out, that they were better off accepting thin margins with competition but staying profitable.

Bottom line- nobody wins in a price war. It hinders development, it creates an artificial value for a product, and they often result in the merger of two companies (or divisions of two companies) that typically generates one big unprofitable mess that has to be cleaned up by raising prices again.

While I have no love for Sony (bunch of rip-off artists), I actually think they are handling this "war" properly. They've recognized that the only people who truly understand the differences between the formats, and who are the only people who will use the technology as it should be used, are the high-end, deep-pocketed early adopters- the people who are willing to pay high market prices so they can be "the first". Remember, HDDVD and Bluray have been around for 18 months- 18 months into the lifecycle of standard DVD players the average retail price of a player was still $500. Let the early adopters pay back your R&D costs, and then start dropping prices to appeal to the masses while the early adopter crowd springs for the next technology.
 
GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
OK I will give you that , but what if you are not a gamer, then what?
Then you either wait for a format to win the war before you decide, get the less expensive HD DVD player, or get the PS3 anyway since it's a great BD player, has built in Wi-Fi for easy firmware updates, and also allows you to stream music/video/pics from a pc on the network, still acts as an upconverting player, and will most likely have a higher resale value than any stand alone BD player since it's also a gaming machine. And now that the 40 gig PS3s have hit the market for $400 it won't be long till you will start finding some used ones in good condition for under $400. I guess the only possible downside to the PS3 as a bluray player is that it doesn't have 7.1 analog outputs, and as of yet doesn't support DTS HD or DTS HD-MA, only core DTS.

While I like the lower costs of the HD DVD, I then Bluray holds an edge due to the larger capacity on the discs, and I'm aware that HD DVD is making larger capacity discs, and from what I heard since (someone correct me if I'm wrong) HD DVD spec doesn't allow the player to output the bitstream so your receiver can do the audio decoding, and since more movie studios are on board with Bluray.
 
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gliz

gliz

Full Audioholic
one thing though everyboday knows now that HD means High Def, name recignation does have bering on this as well. Case in point the "Kleenex" hs become synonyms with facial tissue. regardless this is kinda fun to watch though I dint care either way which one wins.
 
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sokrman14

Audioholic
OK I will give you that , but what iif you are not a gamer, then what?
Then people are still buying ps3's as bluray players. My store sells PS3's with no more than once on a daily basis, But walk out with bluray movies in their hand. I know my store is not the only one nationwide or worldwide where this happens. Bluray is actually winning the war right now, even with more HDDVD stand alone players. If PS3's are included in attach rates, then Bluray has that edge at probably like 8.0, where as HDDVD is what 5.4? The prices will be coming down on bluray players too. Keep in mind if we look at equal players from Toshiba, the A30, and a stand alone bluray player. The price difference is $399 retail and $499 retail. Only one hundred dollars. I don't call the A3 equal because its not 1080p and lacks a function or two (I think but could be wrong on the functions). The price difference isnt all that much, the gap on that is closing, then HDDVD will have nothing to say when it is equal price. Also, if you include the new ps3 now $399 the gap is finished, but I was nice enough not to include that one in the price comparison. Again, more than 50,000 of those were sold on their first day, and you better believe that many of them were for bluray use, and each gets 5 free movies with the purchase just like HDDVD offers. With all that being said thanks for taking the time to read such a large post.
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
one thing though everyboday knows now that HD means High Def, name recignation does have bering on this as well. Case in point the "Kleenex" hs become synonyms with facial tissue. regardless this is kinda fun to watch though I dint care either way which one wins.
Just to counterpoint this with two great examples- Xerox has become synonymous with copy machines, but the company no longer supplies a majority of the machines and has had severe financial difficulties for the past 10 years. Tivo has become synonymous with all TV recording devices, but the company has NEVER made a profit (seriously- look it up, they've done nothing but lose money for almost a decade).

Brand recognition only matters if you have a superior product or the appearance of one (e.g. Google).
 
S

sokrman14

Audioholic
Just to counterpoint this with two great examples- Xerox has become synonymous with copy machines, but the company no longer supplies a majority of the machines and has had severe financial difficulties for the past 10 years. Tivo has become synonymous with all TV recording devices, but the company has NEVER made a profit (seriously- look it up, they've done nothing but lose money for almost a decade).

Brand recognition only matters if you have a superior product or the appearance of one (e.g. Google).
And according to brand recognition how many people would buy Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Sharp, Denon, Pioneer Elite, over just Toshiba and Onkyo (which I still havent seen that player). The hardware support is overwhelming in favor of brands for bluray. Toshiba is a decent company (at best, i have never bought or sold anything from them in 5 years of having them in my store, honest truth), and Onkyo will kill that "price advantage" that HDDVD holds over bluray.
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
And according to brand recognition how many people would buy Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Sharp, Denon, Pioneer Elite, over just Toshiba and Onkyo (which I still havent seen that player). The hardware support is overwhelming in favor of brands for bluray. Toshiba is a decent company (at best, i have never bought or sold anything from them in 5 years of having them in my store, honest truth), and Onkyo will kill that "price advantage" that HDDVD holds over bluray.
But which brands really matter here? The general public would probably only recognize 2 or 3 brands out of that list on average- and for the most part they only buy the cheapest thing they can find!!

Having had experience with 2 different Toshiba DVD players/changers (I was right out of college and bought on price- I didn't do appropriate research), as well as 4 different units of the same laptop model for work (I was a consultant who traveled a ton, the damn thing broke every 4 months like clockwork) I will NEVER buy a toshiba product again. You're right not to sell their products, they make absolute crap.
 
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