My quest for hte best AM radio sound

[Midcow2]

If someone can help me with my quest I would appreciate it. I have tried to start this thread in the correct place; I didn't see one more appropriate.

Okay here is the problem, I like to listen to talk radio , mainly on AM. And at least some of my favorite stations are pretty far away. Now the real kicker, I want HT audio quality when I listen to AM.

I have tried different radios and different antennas and some radios work well with no addtional antennas and some very good radios don't seem to work well with antennas.

There are some AM antennas where you have to specifically tune each AM station and those don't always work that well and are a pain to retune, usually in a manual, analog fashion, everytime you change stations. My idea AM antenna would not require retuning for each station.

=============

Okay here is my analysis so for:

Older (15 years ?) Bose Wave radio ( an yes I know how everyone feels about Bose): expensive (was $350 15 years ago), but pulls in AM pretty clear without external antenna. ( now on back porch for listening to in rocking chair, when outdoor speakers aren't on from Marantz inside ( an besides Marantz AM sucks)).

Executive 7-day Alarm clock ( just purchased ; great for multiple wake-up times). This has surpisingly good for AM reception; one of my top AM reception to-date. Very good price at $59.95

Sony XDR-S3HD retail $199 ( there was a really good deal for $99 with $50 mail-in rebate). FM HD is superb with a diploe antenna. AM is pretty bad with normal AM loop antnna. AM is decent with Terk AM-1000 Advantage antenna.
The presets make this a very good choice.

Marantz SR8002 with HD radio - AM literallly sucks even with Terk AM-1000 Advantage antenna. FM is very good with FM dipole antenna.

Office setup _ FisherStandard Studio AM/FM ynthesized Tuner, Marantz 1060 Amp and Cambridge Audio S-30 speakers and Terk AM-1000 Advantage antenna. Distant AM barely acceptable; Audio streaming thorugh PC speaker connection into stereo Aux, excellent.

Garage Setup - Older Yamaha receiver (3 generations back) with Terk AM 1000 . Decent AM reception. ( Bose 101 surrounds, Bose Center, Sony SB3000 front bookshelf) This is all connected to Sennheiser RS-140 wireless headphones for music/talk radio while doing yard-work.

Media room setup - Pioneer Elite ( VSX-45 TX, absolutely the worst receiver I have experienced; but thta is another story). With AM loop,poor recrption, but don't listen to AM in that room.

==============

AM antennas tried:

Regular Loop ( fair)

Length of wire (fair)

Terk AM/FM Q (fair or poor, not any better than AM loop antenna)

TerK AM-1000 Antenna $35-$40( Best I have found to date, tunei nlow end station 560 and all come in very good)

C.Crane -Twin Coil Ferrite AM antnenna - ( varied results). This antenna cost $99.(5 and should have been outstanding. You have to individualy tune each AM station and on a steroe receiver you can see the signal lelve go up, but it doen't necesaarily mean you get a clearer signal. Sometimes you can pick up distant AM signals better, but I could not get it to work in my office and ended up retuning it.

Terk Tower Amplified stereo Indoor AM/FM antenna - Think about getting to try.
===========

The most disappointing has been the AM reception on the Marantz SR8002, because everything else about the AVR is outstanding.

==========

So has anyone found an outstanding AM radio or and outstanding AM antenna ?

So is there a better antennna that the Terk AM-1000 Advantage?

How can I make AM on my Marantz SR8002 sound good?


Thanks for you help and Ideas!

MidCow2

 

[Rickster71]

Hi Midcow, AM is a little tricky.
It's very susceptible to (RFI) and electrical noise, from fluorescent lights and electrical motors. Metal buildings and even the metal framing, disrupts the signal.

I've never tried HD radio; though they advertise it as being much better than standard AM.

Let me look around a bit and I'll get back to you. I'm thinking, the higher the better with the antenna.

I'm in the same situation, with regards to AM. I installed foil insulation in my attic a few years ago, and it all but ruined my AM reception.

I'll bet our friend TLS has some thoughts.

 

[TLS Guy]

If someone can help me with my quest I would appreciate it. I have tried to start this thread in the correct place; I didn't see one more appropriate.

Okay here is the problem, I like to listen to talk radio , mainly on AM. And at least some of my favorite stations are pretty far away. Now the real kicker, I want HT audio quality when I listen to AM.

I have tried different radios and different antennas and some radios work well with no addtional antennas and some very good radios don't seem to work well with antennas.

There are some AM antennas where you have to specifically tune each AM station and those don't always work that well and are a pain to retune, usually in a manual, analog fashion, everytime you change stations. My idea AM antenna would not require retuning for each station.

=============

Okay here is my analysis so for:

Older (15 years ?) Bose Wave radio ( an yes I know how everyone feels about Bose): expensive (was $350 15 years ago), but pulls in AM pretty clear without external antenna. ( now on back porch for listening to in rocking chair, when outdoor speakers aren't on from Marantz inside ( an besides Marantz AM sucks)).

Executive 7-day Alarm clock ( just purchased ; great for multiple wake-up times). This has surpisingly good for AM reception; one of my top AM reception to-date. Very good price at $59.95

Sony XDR-S3HD retail $199 ( there was a really good deal for $99 with $50 mail-in rebate). FM HD is superb with a diploe antenna. AM is pretty bad with normal AM loop antnna. AM is decent with Terk AM-1000 Advantage antenna.
The presets make this a very good choice.

Marantz SR8002 with HD radio - AM literallly sucks even with Terk AM-1000 Advantage antenna. FM is very good with FM dipole antenna.

Office setup _ FisherStandard Studio AM/FM ynthesized Tuner, Marantz 1060 Amp and Cambridge Audio S-30 speakers and Terk AM-1000 Advantage antenna. Distant AM barely acceptable; Audio streaming thorugh PC speaker connection into stereo Aux, excellent.

Garage Setup - Older Yamaha receiver (3 generations back) with Terk AM 1000 . Decent AM reception. ( Bose 101 surrounds, Bose Center, Sony SB3000 front bookshelf) This is all connected to Sennheiser RS-140 wireless headphones for music/talk radio while doing yard-work.

Media room setup - Pioneer Elite ( VSX-45 TX, absolutely the worst receiver I have experienced; but thta is another story). With AM loop,poor recrption, but don't listen to AM in that room.

==============

AM antennas tried:

Regular Loop ( fair)

Length of wire (fair)

Terk AM/FM Q (fair or poor, not any better than AM loop antenna)

TerK AM-1000 Antenna $35-$40( Best I have found to date, tunei nlow end station 560 and all come in very good)

C.Crane -Twin Coil Ferrite AM antnenna - ( varied results). This antenna cost $99.(5 and should have been outstanding. You have to individualy tune each AM station and on a steroe receiver you can see the signal lelve go up, but it doen't necesaarily mean you get a clearer signal. Sometimes you can pick up distant AM signals better, but I could not get it to work in my office and ended up retuning it.

Terk Tower Amplified stereo Indoor AM/FM antenna - Think about getting to try.
===========

The most disappointing has been the AM reception on the Marantz SR8002, because everything else about the AVR is outstanding.

==========

So has anyone found an outstanding AM radio or and outstanding AM antenna ?

So is there a better antennna that the Terk AM-1000 Advantage?

How can I make AM on my Marantz SR8002 sound good?


Thanks for you help and Ideas!

MidCow2

AM, amplitude modulation, radio is not a Hi Fi medium. It is a relic from the early days of radio, and should have been phased out a long time ago. It is inherently only capable of minimal dynamic range and had limited bandwidth. Top HF extension is in the neighborhood of 5KHz if you are lucky.

The bigger problem with AM, is its very limited ability to reject interference.

Best AM reception comes from 1950s tube tuners, like Quad and Leak, Sherwood, Marantz etc. Once FM was established, AM reception was an afterthought. AM signals have VERY long wavelengths. A very tall antenna sticking high into the sky gives best signal strength. A piece of wire strung up the whole height of your house will do. The other thing to remember about AM is that the tuner should have a very good ground, preferable a big spike driven far into the ground. The reason is that an AM signal is not polarized for transmission like FM. The signal is purely between air and ground. So the signal is between air and ground, and the transmitter towers have deep grounds.

The only advantage of AM over FM, is that it is not line of sight, and has greater range. This is because it reflects off the Kennelly heavy side layer, especially at night. However this effect is negated, as for the last 30 years or more AM stations have been required to drastically reduce their power after dark, so this effect does not result in chaos. This effect is most pronounced for short wave AM transmission. It is still moderately effective for medium wave AM broadcasts. I believe long wave AM broadcasting is now history world wide.

 

[Midcow2]

TLS - Great Response but ...

AM, amplitude modulation, radio is not a Hi Fi medium. It is a relic from the early days of radio, and should have been phased out a long time ago. It is inherently only capable of minimal dynamic range and had limited bandwidth. Top HF extension is in the neighborhood of 5KHz if you are lucky.

The bigger problem with AM, is its very limited ability to reject interference.

Best AM reception comes from 1950s tube tuners, like Quad and Leak, Sherwood, Marantz etc. Once FM was established, AM reception was an afterthought. AM signals have VERY long wavelengths. A very tall antenna sticking high into the sky gives best signal strength. A piece of wire strung up the whole height of your house will do. The other thing to remember about AM is that the tuner should have a very good ground, preferable a big spike driven far into the ground. The reason is that an AM signal is not polarized for transmission like FM. The signal is purely between air and ground. So the signal is between air and ground, and the transmitter towers have deep grounds.

The only advantage of AM over FM, is that it is not line of sight, and has greater range. This is because it reflects off the Kennelly heavy side layer, especially at night. However this effect is negated, as for the last 30 years or more AM stations have been required to drastically reduce their power after dark, so this effect does not result in chaos. This effect is most pronounced for short wave AM transmission. It is still moderately effective for medium wave AM broadcasts. I believe long wave AM broadcasting is now history world wide.

TLS thanks for the response -- Now , if I could just get my favorite AM radio talk hosts to convert over the FM or FM HD.

Yes, I understand the limitations of AM and the powerdown at night.

Again thanks for your insight and sharing


From an old relic listener,

MidCow2

 

[jopela]

GE SUPERRADIO III

This is a great AM radio... I purchased it specifically for listening to AM as I love talk radio and am in a dead zone. It gets great reception anywhere I take it. Unfortunatly they have not made it for about 3 years. RCA purchased it, but from what I hear the RCA version is not as good.

Best of all it was only $60.

I know the RCA Superradio III is readily available on Amazon, but if you can find a GE somewhere give it a try.

 

[Midcow2]

GE SUPERRADIO III

This is a great AM radio... I purchased it specifically for listening to AM as I love talk radio and am in a dead zone. It gets great reception anywhere I take it. Unfortunatly they have not made it for about 3 years. RCA purchased it, but from what I hear the RCA version is not as good.

Best of all it was only $60.

I know the RCA Superradio III is readily available on Amazon, but if you can find a GE somewhere give it a try.

Joplea,

I actually had a GE Superradio I or II ?? previously. It was pretty good but not great in my Office. Maybe the III is better and maybe has digital tuning and presets.

Anyway thanks for the suggestion.

Later,

MidCow2

 

[Adam]

MidCow2,

This doesn't actually address getting better AM reception, but perhaps might help you get better quality audio of the programs that you like. Have you looked to see if the talk radio programs have an internet feed? It seems like a lot of radio stations offer that these days.

Adam

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi Midcow, AM is a little tricky.
It's very susceptible to (RFI) and electrical noise, from fluorescent lights and electrical motors. Metal buildings and even the metal framing, disrupts the signal.

I've never tried HD radio; though they advertise it as being much better than standard AM.

Let me look around a bit and I'll get back to you. I'm thinking, the higher the better with the antenna.

I'm in the same situation, with regards to AM. I installed foil insulation in my attic a few years ago, and it all but ruined my AM reception.

I'll bet our friend TLS has some thoughts.

The Ibiquity HD (hybrid digital, not high definition) radio is broadcast on some AM signals. They can broadcast what is on their standard AM signal, in addition to others or just others. The digital signal is piggy backed on the carrier. It uses the HDC loosy compression algorithm, which MPEG 4 based.

However AM bandwidth only allows for a max data stream of 33 kbs. The other problem with this system both AM and FM, it has a range less than the analog signal. You can't get a high background signal with a digital transmission, so you have high drop out rates on the fringe. Off course you need a digital tuner to receive the broadcasts.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I was playing around with HD radio this weekend with my new receiver (5308CI). I could get only 1 HD AM station (station 1000, talk/news radio).

It sounded great, though.

 

[Midcow2]

KLVI - Beaumont, TX

MidCow2,

This doesn't actually address getting better AM reception, but perhaps might help you get better quality audio of the programs that you like. Have you looked to see if the talk radio programs have an internet feed? It seems like a lot of radio stations offer that these days.

Adam

I can get my favorite station through Internet feed at the office and it comes in very weel. It is just most of the time I am not at a Pc with intenret access.

Also Sirius and XM were suggested and thay have pretty good talk but most is not localized. I pick up the Sirius music on DsihNetwork and play it sometimes ( on my non-music capable Def Tech 7002s) and it sounds awesome. The radio station guy I like has won numerious rewards over the years and i I like him almost as much as Pual harvey.

I can get pretty good NPR and talk show on FM and can pick up some stronger fairly good AM stations.

My favorites are Al Caldwell and Jim Love at this site. Sometime stream it and let me know what you think. http://www.klvi.com/main.html

Later,

MidCow2

P.S. - Had to establish some new rules on the 7002s. You cannot or should not put anything on top of them that could be damaged if it fell off during HT level performance!

 

[Geno]

You might consider some of the Sangean models from C.Crane - they seem to have a pretty good reputation among radio fans. Haven't tried them myself, though. My Boston Receptor radio does a very good job with local stations, and the sound is IMHO, outstanding for a little clock radio. Similar to the Bose, but a little cheaper, and I didn't have to suffer the indignity of giving any money to Bose.

 

[Hi Ho]

I had the same issues occasionally when I wanted to listen to my favorite radio station at home but thankfully they switched to FM.

I listen to 97.3 FM (formerly 710 AM) all day at work and I find all of the hosts very engaging and interesting. Lately Ron and Don have been the most entertaining.

I can't stand commercial music radio so talk radio is where it's at for me.

As for AM reception, I think your best bet is following TLS Guys advice.

 

[fmw]

The consumer HiFi industry makes the worst AM receiver available anywhere. I haven't encountered anything in a HiFi tuner or receiver that could compete with a clock radio for AM reception.

The ultimate would be a Day Sequerra AM monitor. They sold them to radio stations when they were still in business. Thousands of dollars. That and a great antenna would be as good as you could do. Failing that, I would suggest a car radio. Seriously.

I listen only to talk radio on AM and that is from the car. I would never tune music on an AM. But that's me.

 

[Rickster71]

Hi Midcow
I've enclosed a link to a site that does vintage tuner comparisons.
http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/amtuners.html
This link to their AM section, scroll down about half way to get 'Tuner Recommendations'

Rick

 

[Halon451]

I love threads like these, and thanks once again to TLS Guy for such provocative insight into an aging medium. I listen to a lot of talk radio on AM as well, but rarely find myself annoyed by it's low-fi delivery. I guess I figure it's only talk radio and as long as I can hear the message then I'm not too worried about it's fidelity. Something oddly comforting about the whine and crackle of an old AM transmission, I don't know what it is...

I have my own issues with satellite radio however as I do try to listen to music on my Sirius tuner in the car. Multiple times I have found myself quite annoyed at the compressed, warbly sound it produces, but on talk stations again - no worries.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi Midcow
I've enclosed a link to a site that does vintage tuner comparisons.
http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/amtuners.html
This link to their AM section, scroll down about half way to get 'Tuner Recommendations'

Rick

Your link made me quite nostalgic. I can remember I time, at least in the UK, when AM was all there was. FM came to New York in 1948. FM came to SE England from the BBC Wrotham transmitter I think in 1953. Any way this might prod me to do a post on my site with a link here about those days, which I hate to admit are now over half a century ago. I can't find pictures even on the NET of all the equipment we had back then.