My Pioneer VSX-816 cuts sound out of my front speakers randomly. Help please!

Z

zipia.salute1

Audiophyte
I've only had my Pioneer VSX 816 unit for about a year and now randomly sound will cut out of my left or right speaker randomly. The only way I can make the sound come back again is to turn the receiver on and then back on. (i don't think this is too good for the unit)

I've looked around and have noticed many other people having the same problem but none of them know what to do. I'm pretty sure the warranty is expired and I purchased it at Circuit City which already closed down so returning it is out of the question.

Any help?
thanks.
 
J

jamie2112

Banned
Welcome, the 1st thing I would ask is have you checked and made sure all of your connections are snug and secure? Make sure the speaker wire is connected properly on both the speaker and the AVR itself. Also do your speaker wires have any frays or tears in them. If your cable is frayed and touches the other terminal it would cause your AVR to go into protect mode.
 
Z

zipia.salute1

Audiophyte
Welcome, the 1st thing I would ask is have you checked and made sure all of your connections are snug and secure? Make sure the speaker wire is connected properly on both the speaker and the AVR itself. Also do your speaker wires have any frays or tears in them. If your cable is frayed and touches the other terminal it would cause your AVR to go into protect mode.
Yes, that is essentially what I thought was the problem so I bought banana plugs for all my wires and i double checked that they're all snug and no fray wires are shorting anything out. Do you guys know if Pioneer will fix this problem? And if so, is it worth it?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Yes, that is essentially what I thought was the problem so I bought banana plugs for all my wires and i double checked that they're all snug and no fray wires are shorting anything out. Do you guys know if Pioneer will fix this problem? And if so, is it worth it?
You have eliminated one variable, but you have not told us what speakers you are using. The receiver is rated to drive 8 ohms. However most speakers are actually four ohms, no matter what the loudspeaker manufacturer claims the "nominal" speaker impedance is.

I have done some sleuthing on the net. As you state this is a prevalent problem with those receivers, that Pioneer has what they call a "Hybrid" amplifier circuit. In fact some consumers in their reviews call these receivers "junk" in their postings.

It seems to me the power stage must start to fail in these units sending them into protection. This problem seems confined to the front three channels, that are providing most of the power.

Now I can't get a circuit of the output stage, but you never can for that sort of equipment, however I have found reliable information about its modus operandi.

Basically it falls into the category of disguising junk and calling it an advance.

Here is the deal. There is a heat sensing transistor on the heat sink, that varies the bias of the output transistors as they heat.

To understand why, this is the deal. If the power stage is biased to class A, then there is a large current flow through the power transistors independent of output power. If you bias it class B then you have a lower dissipation in the transistor that closely tracks output power, but non linear distortion is high, especially obnoxious crossover distortion. So for practical purposes most amps are biased class AB.

So it seems to me that to market these receivers at the ridiculously low price they sell for, the power output stage is inadequate. This has been disguised by a temperature sensing circuit which swings the output transistor bias towards class B as the heat sink temperature rises.

The problem, is though that their slight of hand is likely inadequate for a lot of loudspeaker loads. Loudspeaker loads are all over the map, and more often than not very complex.

If that receiver has pre-outs, then I would buy a three channel power amp for your front speakers to bypass the receivers front set of power amps. If the receiver does not have pre-outs, I would send it to the recycling center. This seems a frequent enough problem, that I would not advise spending money on repair.

If you look for a replacement, I would set you budget much higher, or make sure you have a receiver with pre outs and purchase power amps for the front three speakers.
 
Z

zipia.salute1

Audiophyte
I am currently running BIC Acoustech's 5.1 Speakers

Its strange because of all the reviews i've read on the Pioneer VSX 816 by people who are having problems with the receiver are all saying that is it failing on them at least after a year.

So pretty much, there's no way to fix this problem?
 
T

tcarcio

Audioholic General
Does that reciever have the reset capability? If so you might try a complete reset and see maybe that might help. I had a overheat light that was coming on on my Elite and I did a complete reset and it fixed the problem. Might be worth a try.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I am currently running BIC Acoustech's 5.1 Speakers

Its strange because of all the reviews i've read on the Pioneer VSX 816 by people who are having problems with the receiver are all saying that is it failing on them at least after a year.

So pretty much, there's no way to fix this problem?
BIC have a number of 5.1 systems. Which speakers do you have? Most seem to have two woofers. BIC state they 8 ohm, but they can't be. They will progressively drop below 8 ohms down to at least four ohms before the tuning peaks kick in. We have covered this ground before. In the type of 2.5 way configuration that most of those speakers seem to be, they will be four ohm speakers where most power is consumed, and at least 2/3 of the power will go into an impedance of 4 ohms or less.

Your receiver is not a current model, but I found a site where I could download the manual. The receiver can drive a 6 ohm load if the 6 ohm impedance switch is set. This lowers the drive voltage to the power transistors, and will limit output current and power. This is worth a try, and might solve your problem.

I ran into a lot of reports of this problem occurring as soon as 3 to 4 months after installation.

If switching to 6 ohms does not solve your problem, then I strongly recommend you purchase external amplification for your front three speakers. Your receiver has pre outs so you can use external amplifiers.

After reviewing the situation with those receivers, it is clear the amps are built on the cheap with inadequate current reserve. However you can recover your investment doing as I suggest. I bet your system will sound a lot better also, if you bypass those miserable amplifiers. I think you will find good power amplifiction a very good investment.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I am currently running BIC Acoustech's 5.1 Speakers

Its strange because of all the reviews i've read on the Pioneer VSX 816 by people who are having problems with the receiver are all saying that is it failing on them at least after a year.

So pretty much, there's no way to fix this problem?
Try that reset mentioned, call Pioneer and see what they are willing to do for you on this issue. Tell them you have seen many other customers with the same issue when the unit gets this old.
If all else fails, may need to replace it with a more reliable brand.
 
Z

zipia.salute1

Audiophyte
BIC have a number of 5.1 systems. Which speakers do you have? Most seem to have two woofers. BIC state they 8 ohm, but they can't be. They will progressively drop below 8 ohms down to at least four ohms before the tuning peaks kick in. We have covered this ground before. In the type of 2.5 way configuration that most of those speakers seem to be, they will be four ohm speakers where most power is consumed, and at least 2/3 of the power will go into an impedance of 4 ohms or less.

Your receiver is not a current model, but I found a site where I could download the manual. The receiver can drive a 6 ohm load if the 6 ohm impedance switch is set. This lowers the drive voltage to the power transistors, and will limit output current and power. This is worth a try, and might solve your problem.

I ran into a lot of reports of this problem occurring as soon as 3 to 4 months after installation.

If switching to 6 ohms does not solve your problem, then I strongly recommend you purchase external amplification for your front three speakers. Your receiver has pre outs so you can use external amplifiers.

After reviewing the situation with those receivers, it is clear the amps are built on the cheap with inadequate current reserve. However you can recover your investment doing as I suggest. I bet your system will sound a lot better also, if you bypass those miserable amplifiers. I think you will find good power amplifiction a very good investment.
This is the BIC Acoustech system i'm running
http://www.shop.com/BIC+Acoustech+Home+Theater+System-159832224-190857175-p+.xhtml?sourceid=298

Also, what amps would you recommend? Could anything be found for under $150?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
This is the BIC Acoustech system i'm running
http://www.shop.com/BIC+Acoustech+Home+Theater+System-159832224-190857175-p+.xhtml?sourceid=298

Also, what amps would you recommend? Could anything be found for under $150?
Yes, I thought those were the speakers you had. They are rated at 8 ohms, but this has to be nonsense. A design like that has to be regarded and treated as a four ohm load. In the manual it states that your receiver can not drive such a load. Loudspeaker manufacturers lie through their teeth, to get you to buy the speakers. Really these days any power amplification device has to be able to drive a four ohm load, and if it can't it should not be purchased.

Your most cost effective solution is this three channelEmotiva

However one of the problems with these forums is that people are not advised to purchase equipment for longevity. In general the most cost effective purchase is the one that will not need replacement. I leaned to save and purchase for longevity before graduating from grade school. I have equipment that has been with me for most of my life. Peter Walker, founder of Quad, was one of the great pioneers of audio and a genius. One of the things he designed for was longevity. All his amplifiers as well as sounding very good, really first class in fact, have incredible staying power. I have one of his first solid state amplifiers, a Quad 303, that I bought in 1970. It has had untold hours of use and I have never opened the case.

Quad, now owned by IAG, still produce one of his brilliant current dumping amplifiers, the Quad 909. There are few components within, and part of the genius of this design, is that all the components can age and change values significantly without changing the performance or specification of the amp one iota. There are no internal adjustments, or trim pots to be found. For this reason, I consider these amplifiers to be by far and away the best value, dollar for dollar on the market. The Quad 909 is an amplifier you can purchase and have a high degree of confidence that it will work perfectly for the rest of your life.

You can purchase the amp from these vendors and others.

http://www.gcaudio.com/cgi-bin/store/showProduct.cgi?id=93

http://generubinaudio.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=GRAS&Product_Code=909&Category_Code=amps

Other forum members know that I'm highly opposed to the manufacture of junk at any price range. It is an irresponsible waste of increasingly scarce resources of the Earth. Purchasers of this low priced junk, are in my view socially irresponsible.
 
V

VSX816

Audiophyte
OMG I have the same problem with this receiver. I have had it for about 2.5 years, and I think the problem started around 6 months ago. For me it happens exclusively on the left front channel. I use banana plugs at the receiver. I've switched speakers and speaker wires, so I've eliminated everything else.

The sound will cut out on the problem channel randomly, after being on for awhile, possibly with some static. Seems to depend on the source, too. Can't get it to happen using FM source. Does that suggest power related?

When I bought it I thought I was getting a good entry level receiver; I remember doing research and it was rated well.

If I end up replacing it (I plan on checking out a couple repair shops this week), what are the more reliable brands? I could go with a 5.1 receiver to save a little cash since I never intend to use those SBs. And how much would I have to spend?

It doesn't seem like a separate amplifier is cost effective. For one thing, where on earth do you buy them? Fry's website shows a single 3 channel amp for $300.

Yup - I registered just to comment on this post.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
OMG I have the same problem with this receiver. I have had it for about 2.5 years, and I think the problem started around 6 months ago. For me it happens exclusively on the left front channel. I use banana plugs at the receiver. I've switched speakers and speaker wires, so I've eliminated everything else.

The sound will cut out on the problem channel randomly, after being on for awhile, possibly with some static. Seems to depend on the source, too. Can't get it to happen using FM source. Does that suggest power related?

When I bought it I thought I was getting a good entry level receiver; I remember doing research and it was rated well.

If I end up replacing it (I plan on checking out a couple repair shops this week), what are the more reliable brands? I could go with a 5.1 receiver to save a little cash since I never intend to use those SBs. And how much would I have to spend?

It doesn't seem like a separate amplifier is cost effective. For one thing, where on earth do you buy them? Fry's website shows a single 3 channel amp for $300.

Yup - I registered just to comment on this post.
As you can see, the receiver might have been rated well, but that just goes to show how little a lot of reviewers know. The amp is ill conceived to get the price down. The price tag is far too low.

What speakers are you using? Unfortunately there are probably precious few speakers on the market that won't stress the amps of that receiver if pushed much above background. You do not get the problem on FM, because the dynamic range of the music is compressed because of the limitations of the medium. That observation confirms that your problem is load related.

Actually an external amp is highly cost effective. There is a saving grace to your receiver. It has preouts, to connect to external amplifiers. I suggest you purchase a three channel amp for the front channels, using the preouts.
That way you will salvage your investment in your receiver.

If you buy this Emotiva three channel amplifier now on sale for $549 you will be in good shape. Your receiver has an MRSP of $219. So for a total investment of $768 you will have a much better investment than buying a new receiver for around $800.

Pioneer have and do make some excellent equipment. However they have now taken the path of trying to build gear for a price it can not be built at, and expect it to be any good.

As is common on these forums, members and especially beginners make price a primary consideration and it should not be. Cheap gear is usually the most expensive purchase.
 
V

VSX816

Audiophyte
The front speakers are Polk Monitor 50's. The resistance is cited at, of course, 8 ohm. The surrounds are Kilpsch Synergy bookshelfs.

Today I brought the receiver to a technician and he inspected it (visual only) and said it's the STK chip. Does that ring a bell? In any case he said it's expensive to replace.

My conclusion was to buy a stereo amp so I can put the fronts on preout. My choices were AudioSource AMP100 and Pyle PCA3. Now these are both fairly cheap, again, so why would I do this? Well, I decided I want to force myself to replace the damn receiver before too long. I hope to get 1-2 years out of the amp and then recycle the receiver. the Pyle is 2x75W, whereas the receiver was rated at 110W/channel, so it may not be enough juice, but seriously, I have never cranked my system very high. I live in an apartment.

I'll be sure to research on this site before buying my next receiver. Goal is to spend $4-500. I heard there are really decent receivers in that range (Harman, Denon); no need to go to $800 for the features..
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
The front speakers are Polk Monitor 50's. The resistance is cited at, of course, 8 ohm. The surrounds are Kilpsch Synergy bookshelfs.

Today I brought the receiver to a technician and he inspected it (visual only) and said it's the STK chip. Does that ring a bell? In any case he said it's expensive to replace.

My conclusion was to buy a stereo amp so I can put the fronts on preout. My choices were AudioSource AMP100 and Pyle PCA3. Now these are both fairly cheap, again, so why would I do this? Well, I decided I want to force myself to replace the damn receiver before too long. I hope to get 1-2 years out of the amp and then recycle the receiver. the Pyle is 2x75W, whereas the receiver was rated at 110W/channel, so it may not be enough juice, but seriously, I have never cranked my system very high. I live in an apartment.

I'll be sure to research on this site before buying my next receiver. Goal is to spend $4-500. I heard there are really decent receivers in that range (Harman, Denon); no need to go to $800 for the features..
I'm doing my best to help you spend money wisely. Don't buy a receiver primarily on price and features. The big weakness of receivers is their power supplies and power amplifier stages. After the features there is no money left for the really important things like power supplies and power amplifiers. Your recent troubles are a case in point. What has failed in your amp is a miserable power amp chip. A power amp has no business being a chip set, unless it is a clock radio. This nonsense started in the stereo era, Sony in fact were the first receivers that I was aware had them, and they were no good either.

Now this practice is creeping into receivers at higher and higher price points. It is spreading to all bands. At current costs and recent buyer reluctance related to declining incomes and restricted credit demand it cost per unit is rising. Price points can only be maintained manufacturing more junk. I'm no hair shirt environmentalist, but that is irresponsible. The dirty little secret is that there is no way to responsibly recycle failed electronic equipment. And make no mistake used electronic equipment is highly toxic. There have been recent exposes of it making its way to Africa and poisoning children. I have seen on TV dumps in Ghana where the labels on the computers have said "US Environmental Protection agency". Personally I would put a thumping tax on electronic junk products.

In fact putting a power supply, microprocessor chips (providing the features) and seven high powered amps in one case is courting disaster.

The amps you have chosen are worthless. Get a decent three channel amp, and if your current receiver has the features you want then you are set. If you want to upgrade, then get a receiver with the features you want and pre outs. You won't have to spend money on one with a big power supply and big amps, as you will have your nice three channel amp to use. The front three channels take about equal power, and on quite a few sources the center the most. There is generally little power on the surround channels, so it is fine to use the receiver amps for those to save some cash.

And yes it is very unlikely your speakers are 8 ohm, they are almost certainly four ohm.

If you want an amp that will be with you for 50 years and more spend a bit more than the one I recommended on an amp. I have a couple of amps in use that have been going for 40 years and I have never had the cases open. That is how you buy economically and it is the ultimate recycling.
 
T

tsantsa

Audiophyte
Hi, sorry to revive an old thread (again).

One of the posters mentioned there being an ohm switch on the receiver somewhere on this model. I can't seem to find it. can help out here?

(yes I have the same issue and wanted to see if switching it from 8 ohm to 6 ohms (edited) would help...)

EDIT, sorry, it was a 6 ohm setting. I can't find it (TLS Guy mentions this).

EDIT again: Hold the speakers button while powering on does this. Unfortunately it doesnt seem to help me at all...
 
Last edited:
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Hi, sorry to revive an old thread (again).

One of the posters mentioned there being an ohm switch on the receiver somewhere on this model. I can't seem to find it. can help out here?

(yes I have the same issue and wanted to see if switching it from 8 ohm to 6 ohms (edited) would help...)

EDIT, sorry, it was a 6 ohm setting. I can't find it (TLS Guy mentions this).

EDIT again: Hold the speakers button while powering on does this. Unfortunately it doesnt seem to help me at all...
The manual said it had a switch to limit current into 6 ohms, but with modern manufacture it would not surprise me if there are production runs without it.

Basically your receiver is failing like the rest of that line. They are just no good. Your solution is a better receiver or external amps.
 
T

tsantsa

Audiophyte
The manual said it had a switch to limit current into 6 ohms, but with modern manufacture it would not surprise me if there are production runs without it.

Basically your receiver is failing like the rest of that line. They are just no good. Your solution is a better receiver or external amps.

Wow, I did't actually expect a response...

I am currently considering an Emotiva amp and/or processor some time soon, but budget is quite the concern these days. I'm wondering, if I can maybe purchase the amp soon and let the pioneer take care of that decoding until I can get the matching Emotiva processor later. What if the problem I'm having is with the decoder and not the amp as suggested?

(on a side note, what are cost effective alternatives to Emotiva are there? They have great prices and reviews but I'd like to look around a bit.)
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Wow, I did't actually expect a response...

I am currently considering an Emotiva amp and/or processor some time soon, but budget is quite the concern these days. I'm wondering, if I can maybe purchase the amp soon and let the pioneer take care of that decoding until I can get the matching Emotiva processor later. What if the problem I'm having is with the decoder and not the amp as suggested?

(on a side note, what are cost effective alternatives to Emotiva are there? They have great prices and reviews but I'd like to look around a bit.)
If you have some sort of amp you can see if there is a signal from the preouts when it shuts down. The protection circuitry could be shutting down the preout signal, but I doubt it. If you can't test it, you can have a service tech test it.

There are a lot of amp manufacturers. Yamaha, Crown, Rotel, Behringer, Quad. Lots of them.
 
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