My Newbie Home theater Build experience...

[ImcLoud]

Hello all, recently, after replacing my 8 year old 42” LCD TV with a 55” LG LED TV {I know the picture quality is not as good as others, but for $900{marked down from$1800} it looks decent. Besides from years of welding I can barely see anyway}, I decided the upgrade couldn’t stop there, since the new TV has the absolute worst built in audio system ever designed. I have to ask “why even put speakers in it?” they have this blow speaker sounding vibration at all volume for certain sounds, it’s just annoying and goes through me like my mother in laws voice…

I never thought I would be getting this involved, I figured, go to Radio Shack pick up a 24”X24”X24” cardboard box, bring it home, and replace my old HTIAB with a new one. This didn’t work out, the 2 HTIAB systems I tried {one of them was close to $1000}, were no better than my almost decade old unit. Im going to say you can probably add a nicer sub and get by, but I wanted something decent. In fact with the exception of a few receiver upgrades {HDMI pass through, a remote control {mine broke years ago}, and a sleeker look} my system was just as good in the sound department if not better, my old speakers had weight and wood boxes, the new ones are light weight and plasticky {I know that’s not a word} …

So those two HTIAB systems went back to the stores in short order and my “Budget Quality HT System” journey began.
I am writing this in hopes it will help another average Joe out there trying to build a decent HT without spending $25K. So here is my attempt at a “low budget” “Audiophile quality” Home theater audio system…
First thing to do was to figure out what I need…

I opted for a 5.1 vs. 7.1 since my couch is against the rear wall making 5.1 a better choice, and it seems a lot of other people also prefer the 5.1 to the 7.1. One of the salesmen showed me a list of movies that support 7.1 sound and as of last month it is under 100 movies, most of which I will never watch. It also seems you can get a better quality system in 5.1 since you don’t have to buy the two extra speakers and two extra channels of amplification. Although for me the deciding factor was sitting in multiple listening rooms and having it switched from 5.1 to 7.1 {using a 7.1 movie}, to me the 5.1 sounds better, the 2 rear channels tend to bring you out of the action and redirect your attention to the back of the room… 5.1 is perfect for me, so one question answered….

Next is budget, if it was up to my wife, the TV speakers get the job done perfectly, so getting a budget approved was tough. We initially agreed on $3500, but I didn’t know that included the new TV, which I learned when it was too late, and the boxes were already in the mail {oops!!!} So we have a budget- $3500, this has to include, speakers, receiver, cables, stands, mounts, ect…
I admit I have limited experience with home theaters, one of my uncles has a mirage/BK/Yamaha setup he bought when Tweeter was open for around $15K {7 or 8 years ago}, and I have a few friends with decent systems, mostly Best Buy, Tweeter, big name store stuff… I have always had HTIAB systems, that have never cost me more than $700…

So, I start my quest at BEST BUY, for all intents and purposes, they have some pretty impressive equipment, and a great place to “tour” it all in their magnolia theater… I spent at least an hour there, having them install and remove different components. I brought my notebook with me and throughout the process wrote down my thoughts with prices of certain components… I bought nothing at Best Buy, but I was impressed with the Klipsch/Pioneer Set up I heard. It sounded clear and loud, very punchy… Another couple actually bought it while I was there. The only criticism I have is for some reason it seemed like the highs over powered the midrange.
That was- Pioneer VSX-53 Receiver $900 with Klipsch Icon 5.1 set up. Front towers, center, and 2 surrounds cost $1500, with the subwoofer it was a total of $3200 plus tax… Being the first system I test drove, it felt worth the price and I almost pulled the trigger before I left the store, especially since Best Buy does the interest free for 36 months, but I held off…
Next I take a ride to Spearit Sound in North Hampton Ma. This place is awesome, and this is where I learn that you can easily spend $50K on a home theater before you buy a TV!!!! Their lower end stuff was Cambridge Audio which sounded comparable to the Pioneer Klipsch equipment, but seemed to cost more…

In their store I decided on the Cambridge 551r $1200, S70 towers with matching center, Focal Chorus surrounds , and Cambridge x300 sub, for a grand total of $4200… The problem here is I was to say the Best Buy set was about the same, actually for movies I liked it better, but admittingly for music the Spearit system ROCKED…. So I left without buying anything yet again…
From there I went to Flint Audio in Rhode Island, this is where I learn that Bose is not as high end as I previously thought, I listened to every one they had on display and they only sound as good as my old Yamaha HTIAB {maybe}… Finally after telling the salesman I was not looking for a Bose system, he showed me a Polk system RTIA6 towers, matching center, rears, and sub with a Yamaha RXA720 receiver and for the price it sounded good, not quite as powerful as the others {particularly in the bass department} but out of the entire store it was what I would have bought over everything else I seen {or heard rather}…. Total cost was under $3000 after tax!!!! Not too shabby, but no sale was made…

Now within the next few days I tour a couple more places with similar results, nice sound, and all the prices were around $4000. I listened to the entire Klipsch line and 90% of the Energy line powered by everything from $500 Sony receivers to $7000 Marantz pre/amp setups.., Out of everything I listened to Best Buys system was almost the least expensive and ranked in the top 2 for what I liked {In my unprofessional opinion, the Best Buy system was about the best sounding, with the exception of the Marantz system I listened to with some high end Klipsch speakers which was way out of my price range, it had a mono amplifier on each speaker with 2 Subs, It sounded like it cost $45K and in fact it did..}

 

[ImcLoud]

So fast forward a couple weeks, I am in Tennessee visiting friends. I see an advertisement for “Emotiva, Affordable High Quality Audio”. At first I thought it was a store until I pulled up and walked in the office… This is where I learn about Factory Direct Sales… Their stuff is amazing, looks much more expensive than most of the stuff I have been seeing, and sounds sooo clean… I also finally get some real audiophile instructions on what I’m listening to. They showed me the difference between good and better… So I see a light at the end of the tunnel, I finally commit to something….

I buy a UMC1 Preamp. This is an impressive looking piece of equipment, it does up to 7.1 so it will work with my 5.1, has a 5 year warranty, and some very nice features {honestly much more than I am going to use}. I also purchase an XPA-5 amplifier. This has 200 watts rms per channel, which will probably never even get warmed up. The last item is a XDA-1, my wife asked how we can hook the ipod up to this system and we were then introduced to the digital vs analog differences {Actually substantial} so we bought the DAC and some optical cables. I also bought a new matching amplifier for my multi room system… I felt good about it… I spent under $2000 and they gave me a Card for $600 off a new processor they are coming out with… I would have bought speakers there, but a little birdy told me to go on the internet and poke around for other direct sales companies…

So we have our first purchase, the actual amount spent on the HT setup {minus the cost of the multi room amplifier, which doesn’t count because that is going to run the whole house audio system} was $1500. Considering I have a real 200 watts per channel with all channels driven, I don’t think that is too bad. I was looking at $1000 AVR units that had NO WHERE NEAR the power of this unit.
So now I get home and hit the web, now I am over my head, so I come to this forum to get some advice, where I stumble across FirstReflections post about a $2500 home theater being the best for the money.. This is where I learn about Ascend Acoustics and HSU subwoofers…. Because before this I was almost buying an Aperion 5.1 set for $1500. So I look further into Ascend and the reviews are stellar, plus the prices look too good to be true. So FirstReflections seems to know what hes talking about and Ascend has a 30 day trial period so I decide to go ahead with the next purchase…

Now I have my second purchase, I have $2000 left in the budget for everything else I need.
I buy…
2 CMT304SE fronts w/stands
1 CMT304SE center
2 HTM200SE surrounds - total price $1027 shipped, leaving me with under $1000 for a sub, a rack, mounts, cables, ect…
SO I dive into a sub woofer, I went and listened to a few, but I had a hard time distinguishing the differences, besides volume, they all sound the same, so I go with HSU, again based on the advice of FR. I bought an HSU VTF-2 $615 shipped… Now Im down to $358 but I’m almost done…

Now that I know what I have coming I can buy the rest of the stuff, so I start poking around Amazon…
In one order I pick up, all the Acoustic Research RCA cables I need, a Forest USB AB cable so I can hook the laptop to the DAC, a Pure I20 dock also to hook to the DAC, a Poundex 5 shelf media rack {to hold all this equipment}, and a pair of Omni Mounts {20’s} to hang my surrounds from, since the center is going on the mantle and the front have the tower stands… I spent $315 total putting me a little UNDER budget {which I was over from the beginning, but who’s counting, besides my wife and her mother}…
Now that it is all ordered, I can’t wait, Im excited like a little kid on xmass eve!!! So, sure enough about 5 days after everything is ordered, boxes start to show up, I actually couldn’t have planned it better, the media stand came first, and I must say, if anyone needs an audio rack, the Poundex unit for $100 is an insane deal. It went together easy and I am very anal when I build things. I used wood glue and loc tite when I put it together and it is super solid…

Next just the Ascend 200’s show up {on the same day as the mounts and some of the wires from amazon}, and for some reason the other speakers don’t show up for another 4 days which was torture, but if I had to choose I would have wanted the 200’s first since I had to hang them , which I did… Even though the ascends htm200se’s are small, they are large hanging from the ceiling, I think this is the largest speaker I would ever hang… They are also VERY heavy compared to what you would think they weighed… The Omni Mounts had no problem handling the task, and I screwed them rite into studs…

When it was finally all here I was relieved, I have no idea where Im going to store all these cardboard boxes, but its here and setup. The amps are wired, the surrounds are mounted, and the wires are all ran. Setting up the emotive was pretty straight forward, I used a db spl meter. The sub is very heavy and just plain impressive. Actually all of the items I picked just seemed over built and of genuinely great quality..
Now I know I didn’t need to spend $1500 on separate components, I was even told that I could have gotten something to do the same thing for $500, I don’t know if that is true or not but I think it was worth every penny, just on looks alone… I also plan on expanding this system, when the XMC1 is available I plan on using my 40% coupon to purchase one and then retiring the umc1 to my gym{I bought an extra set of 200’s since ascend gives you an additional $100 off when you buy 7 speakers vs 5 so in total I saved almost $200, plus I got an additional 12% off}, I then plan on adding another hsu sub, and maybe trying out some dipolar surrounds in the future {maybe rf62ii’s}, and moving the additional 200s to the gym also.
I don’t know the correct terms to explain how it sounds, and I apologize for that, but the best way I can explain it is… I put the newish Captain America in, and while watching the movie I didn’t realize how obnoxiously loud it was until the credits rolled and the music started. I was able to disappear into the film and the sound system allowed me to effortlessly block out the entire outside world and just melt into the action.

Next it was time for some music, now we had a house fire that destroyed 90% of my cd collection a while back and it has never recovered. I usually just pull the songs up on the internet and listen to them through the computer. So that’s what I did, I pulled up some Pink Floyd to see what the 340’s could do, After about 3 minutes of listening I said “let me try it with the sub on” but when I went to turn it on it was already on, I was surprised I could have sworn all the music was coming from just the 340’s, Its like they melt together perfectly.. So I tried it with the sub off, it was surprisingly thorough it didn’t seem to be missing anything, and I actually prefer some music with the sub off and some with it on…

My audiophile uncle came over after I got it all settled in and warmed up. He was trying to talk me into buy a $10,000 used system from his friend but I didn’t want to spend that on a used system or any system for that matter. Long story short he was floored, he knew what I spent, and his first impressions of the Ascends was that they looked plain and cheap, but when he heard them he couldn’t believe it, and I had to pull up Emotiva’s website because he couldn’t believe a preamp and 1000 watt amp could be bought for $1400 considering he paid 2 ½ times that for 1 amp alone!!!

Movies sound so real its incredible, I was watching the movie Drive {which I have seen before} and in the scene before the big car chase where the father gets shot while robbing the money, when the first gun shot went off I jumped, it caught me off guard, I almost bit my tongue… I would have been embarrassed but my son who was sitting next to me Jumped too, about 3 minutes later my wife comes down stairs and says “did you just shoot the gun out of the window” me and my son started laughing and I had to rewind it and play it for her, because she really thought I was firing the rifle out of the window {In her defense, I live in the country and once in while a ground hog will poke his head up near my garden and get shot from the dining room window…
ANYWAY, It sounds amazing!!! I want to thank everyone who gave me advice, Especially Firstreflexions… I am happy with the end result… I honestly feel you cannot buy a better system for double the price… I spent under $3500 with the dac, ipod dock, mounts, stands, rack, and cables!!!

Thanks for reading through, that was my home theater building experience it could have ended the first day at Best buy, but it didn’t and I’m happy about that… If you are looking for a clean sounding 5.1 check out this setup The sub and 5.1 cost under $2000 and I have been looking I haven’t heard anything that can compete…

 

[FirstReflection]

Now THAT'S the kind of story I love to hear!



I've got more I wanna say, but I've got to get to sleep right at the moment For now though, I'll just say CONGRATS!

I appreciate the shout out and the kind words Really happy I could be of some help to you and SO glad you're really happy with your new speakers and subwoofer! You can see why I love that HSU VTF-2 MK4 sub for $550, and why I just love Ascend speakers overall, right? The $2500 complete system I wrote about included a 50" plasma in that $2500 total budget. And to hit that, I included only the smaller HTM-200 SE speakers and the smaller STF-2 subwoofer. But you had the budget and the desires for the bigger models, and it really paid off! Love those brands for the lower price ranges because every penny goes to the SOUND. I have to agree with your uncle: they ain't necessarily pretty and they don't LOOK expensive. But they've got the goods where it counts most, don't they? Like how that HSU sub can seem to "disappear" and blend perfectly with the speakers, but then surprise the heck out of you and blast you with a genuine gut punch of bass when the moment calls for it! That's why I always beg people to never skimp on the subwoofer! It's what makes movies FEEL "like the movies"! I'm willing to bet you'd never want to go back now that you've heard and felt what a real subwoofer can add to the experience

Again, so happy for you and so glad your enjoying your new sound system!

And thanks so much for coming back to the forum and sharing your experience with us! I wish more people would. For me, talking about this stuff is half the fun

Enjoy!

 

[ImcLoud]

You are very correct about the subwoofer, I have had a little time to watch regular tv with it on {my regular DVR shows, like Weeds, Dexter, Newsroom, Grim, Ect} and it lies there dormant like an invisible 3rd boxer in the ring, and when its called in surprises the sh!t out of you... My kids were watching Harry Potter {for some reason they are all over the movie channels lately} and I never noticed how "theater friendly" them movies were... It adds an entire new dimension to watching TV, that seems to close you into the action...

I am really impressed with the speakers too, I have listened to soooo many in the recent past, and I can honestly say that the Ascends sound better than them all. I dont know how or why, but they are warmer, clearer, and seem to have more of a fequency range than any other I heard, and I went well beyond their cost... Yesterday, I was picking my son up from his friends house, and his freinds father asked me how the system was coming, since we talked a little about it and he is pretty serious about his HT, so I told him I was done and he played me his system, which was 2 Polk RTia9 towers with matching surround 7.2, and a fancy AVR with a separate amplifier on the front towers... It was definitely loud, but I have to say my budget system sounds better... {I didnt tell him this} but his towers felt like they were trying too hard to project the sound forward.. Where the ascends seem to effortlessly play the music... Although he had a Huge amount of bass he has 2 martin logan 10" subs, it seemed to be very obvious that they bass wasnt coming from the towers and it was missing that low tight bubble that the HSU has... They seemed to boom vs rumble if that makes any sense....

But now that I have been poking around I have to admit, I can really tell the difference...

 

[brianedm]

Great story! Hope to see some pictures in the pros and joes gallery soon

 

[theJman]

That was quite the story, but well worth the time it took to read. To an extent it's rare things go that smoothly the first time around, but it sounds as though preparation and help went a long way towards fulfilling your goal. I'm glad it all worked out so well. Congrats...

 

[ImcLoud]

I still have to clean up the wires a bit, I will take some pics as soon as that is done... It seems to get better every time I listen, I wonder if speakers get better as they "break in" because it sure does seem like these get better every day...
I have started playing with the preamps settings a little bit more, getting used to it...

And yes Jman, I am quite fortunate, not having to return anything or bought the wrong items, with the exception of a few cables I have extras of now...

I am however going to change how I hook to the preamp, I think I am going to use optical for the ps3 and the cable box, I dont like switching them through the preamp... I like to have music playing while having the tv on also, so that makes it a lot harder going through the preamp...

 

[slipperybidness]

Nice setup and glad you are enjoying it.

A few comments.

I believe if you hook PS3 up with the optical, you will lose the HD master audio tracks. The optical cables can't handle that as they have a software limitation imposed on them. I'm not 100% on this, but somebody here will correct me if I'm wrong. You may want to leave the HDMI hooked up too, if you go the optical route.

I don't understand why you "needed" the XDA-1. I think the UMC should be able to handle anything that the XDA can do. But, I don't personally own the UMC (but do have an XDA). Are you connecting the ipod with a usb connection to the XDA?

1 note on the XDA. When you use it, you want the volume maxed out at 80 on the XDA and control the volume with the UMC (i.e. use XDA only as a DAC and not as a preamp). The reason is in the way Emotiva implemented the volume control on the XDA. Less than 80 and it actually loses resolution and degrades the sound quality. You can read up on that on the Emotiva forums.

I have USP-1 and XDA-1 in my 2nd system.

BTW, Spearit Sound has a good looking online offering too, but haven't ordered anything from them.

Other than that, sounds like you did well, enjoy.

 

[FirstReflection]

Yeah, I think you'll want to keep HDMI from your PS3. Optical from the cable box is perfectly fine. But the PS3 can play Blu-rays with TrueHD, DTS-HD or LPCM audio. You need the HDMI connection for all of those HD Audio lossless formats. So I'd keep the HDMI connection for the PS3 at least

"Break in" is one of those crazy audio things that some people swear by, some people scoff at, and no one seems to really be able to "prove" either way for certain. My own experience, I try to do a lot of blind listening. Including listening that's meant to "trick" me by literally playing the same speaker no matter what, or playing the same speaker but switching out only the speaker wire, or doing it straight and actually switching speakers I haven't had a lot of opportunity to have "Speaker A" be a brand new speaker and then "Speaker B" be the exact same model, but "broken in" for many hours. But I HAVE tried that exact scenario a couple of times. My experience there was that one time, I completely couldn't tell the speakers apart. The other time, I was actually able to tell them apart pretty well, but only for about the first 3 or 4 minutes. After that, they sounded identical.

So personally, I don't really buy into the whole "break in" thing. It makes sense to me that when a speaker is literally right out of the box, the drivers ARE moving parts, so they might loosen up a bit when they first start moving. I actually think it might have more to do with temperature though. Literally "warming up" the moving parts of the speaker after they've been shipped across the cold, Canadian provinces to me

But yeah, I tend to agree with Tom Andry and the rest of the editors here at Audioholics that what really "breaks in" are your ears and your brain You get used to the new sound, and you start to notice things in recordings that were either masked by not-so-great speakers in the past, or you just start to pick out sounds that you weren't really paying attention to before.

It's actually a large part of what I'm talking about when I reference getting speakers that allow you to learn how to listen critically. When you get some very accurate, very neutral, very low distortion speakers that have good transient response and delineation between notes, you start to be able to listen "past" the main melody or dialogue and "tune in" to quieter and more subtle background sounds and harmonies. Those things were always there, but lesser speakers will mask them or fail to reproduce them accurately. In real life, we "tune out" and "tune in" sounds all the time. Like how we can carry on a conversation in a busy restaurant. Accurate, distortion free speakers allow us to train our brains to do the same thing when listening to music or movies.

So it's perfectly natural for it to seem like the speakers keep getting better when they're new. You're actually learning how to listen more critically, and how to "tune in" and "tune out" sounds at will. It's a lot like when you get a new car and you listen to the engine noises. At first, it's just a cacophany. But after a bit of time, you learn how to pick out certain, specific sounds that let you know how the engine is performing. The sounds of the engine never really changed. But your ability to "tune" your hearing to those specific sounds did! Personally, I think that's more along the lines of what happens when we get new speakers. I DO think some amount of physical "break in" makes perfect sense. But I don't really believe it lasts more than a few minutes - maybe a few hours at the most. Our brains adjusting to the new sound though? I totally believe in that. I've experienced that enough times in situations other than those involving speakers to know that the sound around me itself can stay the same, but my ability to "tune" my hearing to pick out certain specific sounds definitely changes and improves over time

As for what I wanted to write last night: you are NEVER going to regret having that XPA-5 amp! Amps are pretty much always a good purchase

The UMC-1 is something that you might replace one day though. Pre-pros and receivers keep adding new features, inputs and formats, and the UMC-1 does have a few known issues and isn't quite so cutting edge in terms of all the latest formats and such. Personally, I think the best option these days is to just use an A/V Receiver as your pre-pro. So long as you get one with pre-outs, you can still hook it up to that lovely XPA-5 amp and get great power and more available headroom and Watts for your speakers! Plus, if you ever decide to expand to 9 or 11 channels one day, it's so much easier to use the built-in amps in the receiver to handle the less important "height" channels, while still powering your primary front and surround speakers with the external amp.

I don't know if the XMC-1 will turn out to be great or a bit of a dud. Making pre-pros and receivers is really hard. And it's extra hard for a smaller company like Emotiva. They've faced many, many delays on all of their pre-pros now, and that just means they fall that much further behind in terms of cutting edge features. So I'd opt for a great Denon, Marantz or Onkyo A/V Receiver myself. You'll get the most cutting edge features that way, likely more inputs, certainly more network and internet support. And you'll get Audyssey room correction and EQ, which I still find to be the best of the room correction suites. When you're looking in that $1000 price range for the XMC-1 (including the discount that you have in hand), it gets really tough to say the XMC-1 is a better choice as the "hub" of your system than a great A/V Receiver like the Onkyo TX-NR818.

Anywho, that's all stuff you don't need to worry about until the future! For right now, you've got a kick arse sound system that didn't break the bank and performs way above its price point! That's huge value, and it's going to last you a long, long time. So if the UMC-1 gets moved to another room at some point, and you go with a higher-end A/V Receiver in the main theater setup, there's no downside and no "waste" at all.

Oh, and don't forget to always check monoprice.com before you buy cables or wires anywhere else! Monoprice is the one exception to the "looks too good to be true" rule. They really are that cheap. The products really are perfectly good and high quality. And there's no reason to pay more for cables and wires and other accessories

 

[ImcLoud]

I have the Ipod dock hooked up with Tolsink as well as the cable box and PS3, I didnt notice a difference between the hdmi and optical, but I will try it both ways a few times ad see where I end up...
I really want the sound quality on the music side, not too critical about movies... The XDA, makes a difference on the music side, I dont know how it does it, but it cleans up the IPOD so much, I actually got my ipod and one of my sons, hooked themboth ways on the same track and everyone could hear the difference night and day.. It sounded fine with just the preamp, but when it went through the XDA it sounded different... Better different.... Plus I hook the laptop to the xda and I can ply soungs from the internet through the sound system, and they sound good, a few minutes ago we played Yellow Submarine from Youtube with the lyrics bouncing accross the screen... It sounded pretty clean... or a crappy youtube video...

Anyway, I am very happy with the setup, and as far as the preamp goes, I have to admit I have a little OCD and I like things too match... Now that I am using this one, I probably will not upgrade for another room, but just find a good AVR...
The xpa5 amplifier is amazing there is no way you listen to that at full volume, its soo much power its insane...

 

[BMXTRIX]

I'm really impressed with the entire setup you got. Going to the online companies really does save a lot of cash. I spoke with Emotiva at one point about if they offerred any dealer or custom installer discounts (10% lets say) and they said they aren't setup for that, but that I could go to their custom counterpart... I think it was Sherbourne. The COST, as a dealer, for Sherbourne gear, which is the same stuff in, what I consider, an uglier package, was MORE than Emotiva was direct to consumers, then I was supposed to mark it up to make my profit. Kind of defeated the purpose in me getting value product to my customers, so I just buy Emotiva amps directly.

I would not buy their (current model) UMC-1 or recommend it.

Not that the UMC-1 was pretty solid when it came out, and they've addressed some issues that came up, but I think it has been on the market for about half a decade at this point and is getting to be extremely underfeatured compared to similar products out there. On the other hand, it does have preouts (duh) and handles HD audio. I generally use the Denon AVR-331x series to the XPA-5 to get amazing audio into a room with all the latest bells and whistles. More expensive than the UMC, but an extremely deep feature set.

You MUST use HDMI to get HD audio from your sources. Realistically, all your sources should be hooked up via HDMI to the preamp, then on to the TV over a single HDMI cable. This allows for the best possible digital audio transmission to the TV.

If there is a time you want to use the TV speakers, say for cable TV, then you can go HDMI direct to the TV and digital audio (optical or coax) to the preamp since cable doesn't support HD audio, it won't make a bit of audio difference.

I'm not familiar with the XDA, but I must admit that it confounds me. A DAC should be needed when you have a non-digital preamp or receiver. If the DAC sounds better than the ones built into the preamp/receiver, then I would expect that it is because the ones built into the preamp or receiver are not doing their job properly or are of significantly lower quality. Just confounds me a bit and makes me wonder.

Good job on the setup though! The choice to go with the direct manufacturers saves a ton of money and gives you top notch quality for the best price.

 

[ImcLoud]

A friend of mine that actually helped me wire my system up, just ordered a very similar system...
2-cbm170's
1 340se center
2-200's for the rear
And he found an Onkyo nr709 for $400 and bought a B-stock emotiva XPA3 for $599 shipped...
He spent about $2000, and is going to keep his current subwoofer which is a 12" Klipsch he bought about a year ago... He had no trouble selling his Klipsch speakers {62's} on craigslist... But he used to complain about them all the time so he was looking for something new, the klipsch were no where near as warm as the Ascends...

 

[ballybrad4545]

Sounds Good!

Sounds Good!