My new HDTV may stink for gaming (Part III: The Saga Continues)

[LarryDavid]

My new 37" Proscan LCD (info below) did not handle the trial run with Xbox 360 game Mass Effect very well. The Xbox dashboard and static images look absolutely gorgeous, but fast action looks slightly blurry. When I pan the camera quickly around the game character, it creates this weird double image effect where there is a ghost of the character's face where he just was. It is very easy to see this effect when I try to provoke it. I only see that particular double-image effect when I try to provoke it, but action scenes still feel blurry and just don't feel right. And I got a headache after playing for an hour, which doesn't normally happen.

I imagine this is a problem with the TV. There are only two advanced TV settings (I forget what they are called, but I think they both had to do with color) and I disabled them both as a test and it still happened. I am connected with HDMI.

I am tempted to get a couple other games to try out the TV, but honestly Mass Effect just gave me a headache so, unless this is a known issue with Mass Effect, I don't really think any other game could convince me to keep the TV. That is unless I am doing something wrong, guys?

What TV stat/feature do you think is causing this?

I am glad I have free return at Blockbuster for 30 days.


Proscan - 37" Class / 720p / 60Hz / LCD HDTV
Model: 37LC30S60 (if the link does not work, just google the model #)

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9329354&type=product&id=1218086177078

 

[GlocksRock]

The only things that would make it blurry is the response time, or the refresh rate, or it may just be the tv itself since you could use a different tv with the same specs and have it perform just as well. My LCD PC monitor is 5 ms. and refreshes at 60 hz. and when playing Halo 3 I never noticed any blur or ghosting.

 

[FirstReflection]

Welcome to slow pixel response time! Population: You (and a whole bunch of other LCD owners).

This is a common issue with many LCD displays. It is NOT solved with 120Hz or 240 Hz refresh rates. Those refer to the number of times a second that a new image is "drawn". It does NOT indicate how quickly the LCD pixels themselves are able to respond.

The response time is a measurement of how quickly a pixel can go from grey to black to white and back to grey. If that time is any longer than about 10 ms, you'll be able to see it in exactly the way you described - as "ghost" images that linger on the screen for a moment after the image on screen has changed.

You have to be careful when looking at the response time spec. A lot of manufacturers are listing the half-response time (the time it takes to only go from grey to black to grey; not grey to black to white to grey), which will make the response time look twice as fast as it really is on the spec sheet. When you see 4 ms or 5 ms response times on the spec sheet, that is usually the half-response time and the REAL response time is 8 ms or 10 ms.

An 8 ms response time (as I say, often listed as 4 ms on the spec sheet) is what is used for almost all "120 Hz" displays. This works out well. An image is "drawn" 120 times every second and the pixels are capable of going from grey to black to white to grey 125 times a second - easily allowing for 120 "ghost free" images every second.

But many LCDs have a slower 10 ms or 12 ms or even longer response time. Once you creep upwards of about 16 ms, blurring starts to become plainly noticeable.

So with an inexpensive LCD display, it's common to get longer response times leading to a blurry image. Even if the spec sheet is claiming 8 ms response time, you have to be careful because that too could be the grey to black to grey response time, meaning that the REAL response time is 16 ms, which will almost certainly look blurry.

 

[LarryDavid]

Hmm, they claim a 5ms Response Time.

It even says:

"This HDTV features a fast 5 ms response time to eliminate blurring and streaking during fast-action scenes, so you can watch your favorite TV shows, movies or sporting events in amazing detail. The 178° horizontal and vertical viewing angles ensure that every seat in the house is a good one."

!!!

 

[Warpdrv]

And people still like to argue that LCD's are toe to toe with Plasmas...

Hogwash I say - and you prove the point...

 

[Patrick_Wolf]

And people still like to argue that LCD's are toe to toe with Plasmas...

Hogwash I say - and you prove the point...

Well this particular LCD was only $400 for a 37"... so yeah. Plasma's still have better PQ, but you're not getting no plasma for $400 unless you buy used.

However this Plasma is relatively cheap for a 42".

 

[FirstReflection]

Yeah - I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that that "5 ms response time" is the grey to black to grey response time and thus, the REAL response time is actually 10 ms.

Your TV doesn't happen to have a "120 Hz mode" does it? If it DOES, that is actually the problem. The TV is trying to "draw" 120 frames every second, but the pixels can only respond 100 times a second. That would lead to obvious motion blur.

 

[LarryDavid]

I am an idiot, at least partly

Apparently there is a Mass Effect game option called, get ready for this, MOTION BLUR: ON/OFF.

I just turned it off and it looks way better now. I retract my libelous comment about the otherwise so-far fine Proscan. I was just paranoid when I saw that double-face image. And I'm not used to getting such graphical options in a console game, so I didn't even think it could be turned off.

So I am not getting ghosting (no more double-face). But I still think I may have moderate motion blur, though I just don't know what is considered normal. I know to some extent motion blur is a normal part of human vision during fast movement, but I am paranoid that things are extra blurry (like in Bioshock if I pan left and right the gun stays crisp, but everything else blurs a lot... here is a simple question to help me out: when panning fast left and right, should you still be able to read the text on one of the big banners or sign strewn about Bioshock? Because I definitely can't and I don't know if it is a problem or not.

Haha, I should mellow out about this. Am just slightly paranoid and want to ensure I am getting the proper experience after finally making the plunge to HD. And I am an idiot.

 

[Seth=L]

Ha ha, I guess no one here has played the game.

 

[ZeosPantera]

Wow. What an amusing thread. Most things come down to shitty video game options in the end.

 

[Fenix]

I'm not sure what all your TV has on it, but does there happen to be a setting that you can change in the menu of your TV that would put it in a "gamer mode"?

My Sony has on option on all of the inputs to enable "Game Mode" on each of them individually.

Also do you have your TV hooked up with an HDMI cable, or Component?

You may want to go into the system settings on your XBox and mess around with the display settings to see if changing reference levels, colorspace, etc help any.

My TV is only 60Hz and everything looks just fine. I don't notice any blurring and I play FPS and Racing games.

 

[j_garcia]

I'm not sure what all your TV has on it, but does there happen to be a setting that you can change in the menu of your TV that would put it in a "gamer mode"?

My Sony has on option on all of the inputs to enable "Game Mode" on each of them individually.

Also do you have your TV hooked up with an HDMI cable, or Component?

You may want to go into the system settings on your XBox and mess around with the display settings to see if changing reference levels, colorspace, etc help any.

My TV is only 60Hz and everything looks just fine. I don't notice any blurring and I play FPS and Racing games.

Did you read the rest of the thread? He already answered it.

My set is only 60Hz and it also looks great with fast paced games too.

 

[Patrick_Wolf]

[/B]: when panning fast left and right, should you still be able to read the text on one of the big banners or sign strewn about Bioshock? Because I definitely can't and I don't know if it is a problem or not.

I've played through Bioshock a couple times, but have sold it. So I downloaded the demo and did what you asked. I strafed left to right looking at those big red banners and even though it blurred up a bit I could still read it pretty easily.

My TV is the LN32A450 (6ms advertised) connected to a 9800 GX2 via HDMI.

I've actually tested for this blur (pixel response time?) before in Bioshock and other games to see if my 20WMGX2 was better or worse. It is actually a little bit better than my HDTV. Which I thought was odd.

Can't comment on Mass Effect; haven't played it yet.

 

[Fenix]

Did you read the rest of the thread? He already answered it.

My set is only 60Hz and it also looks great with fast paced games too.

I did read the rest of the thread. He only mentioned that he found a setting in the game. I was merely trying to help him find things to look for with overall system settings that will help him across all games.

 

[rgriffin25]

You also might try adjusting the sharpness setting. If this is too high it can make a decent picture look bad.

 

[LarryDavid]

I've played through Bioshock a couple times, but have sold it. So I downloaded the demo and did what you asked. I strafed left to right looking at those big red banners and even though it blurred up a bit I could still read it pretty easily.

My TV is the LN32A450 (6ms advertised) connected to a 9800 GX2 via HDMI.

I've actually tested for this blur (pixel response time?) before in Bioshock and other games to see if my 20WMGX2 was better or worse. It is actually a little bit better than my HDTV. Which I thought was odd.

Can't comment on Mass Effect; haven't played it yet.

Thanks for doing that for me! -- sorry for not responding earlier as I was on vacation. That makes me think that my set is indeed a little blurry, but I can live with it.

I just started playing Fallout 3 (amazing game) and any subway or dark building scene looks extremely blurry and almost "cloudy" when I move... but I am getting used to it. It may be my fault and I need to play with settings more, or perhaps it is somewhat normal and I am just not used to it (somewhat doubt that), but in any event I am acclimating and am overall happy enough with the TV to not make a change.