My new Bang & Olufsen speakers

E

EYEdROP0

Audioholic
Hey everyone, I have some news. After growing tired and depressed about my Velodyne monitors having a mis-aligned cone, I decided to do some searching for a good deal on craigslist. I came across a deal that I could not refuse. It was the B&O BeoLab Penta 2 for $400. The retail of this speaker was around $4000-$5000 back in 1988.

Now I know alot of you may be thinking "B&O, isnt that kinda like Bose?". The answer is both yes and no. B&O has extremely high prices, often higher than Bose. They are considerd a luxury brand and put alot of effort into making the speakers look pretty. For the money you pay, B&O is not worth it compared to competitors, much like Bose. But one thing they do better than Bose is the sound quality. They do put effort and research into making the speakers have a decent frequency response, both on and off axis, as well as a full soundstage and proper imaging, sensitivity, quality of materials, design, etc... Again, mabey not as cheap or good as competitors, yet still good stuff.

My Pentas are floorstanding speakers with a 150 watt RMS active amp built inside of them. each box has 9 drivers. 4 woofers, 4 mids playing different frequency ranges, and a tweeter. The box is in a shape of a pentagon, which is supposed to minimise reflections and resonances inside the box. They stand about the height of me, 5 feet 3 inches. Each box is heavy as hell, probably atleast 60 lbs.

So how do they sound? Well, considering these were flagship models and expensive as hell at the time, they indeed sound good. I would never, ever pay the $5G retail. But they still sound great. The first thing that caught my attention was the sound stage. It is quite wide, goes up and down, and it dosent make the voice seem 15 feet long like Bose 901's. The imaging and placement is really good, which is probably do to the column design the speakers are arranged in.

The voicing of the speakers is a bit strange to me. The ultra low THD velodynes with dual voice coils had an uncanny ability to project sound quite cleanly, with no cloud or haze over the instruments true sound, so to speak. With these B&O's the sound seems more foggy, yet all the details are still there. Running a sine sweep test reveals there is a suckout somewhere in the mid-bass, but it gets back on track pretty quickly. Im guessing its my room. These go down to about 45-50 hz.

The high bass to lower mids transition is the weakest link in this speaker. The voices, especially male, dont seem to be as "alive" as the velodynes, and the response isnt as smooth, although its still acceptable. The guitar comes out pretty good, as well as acoustic instuments. Again, quite not on par with the Velodynes, but pretty damn close. The tweeter balance is really good on the B&O, and goes up high and flat enough for me.

The sound is a tad laid back for my tastes. I also sense some coloration in the sound, but nothing extreme. Again, the soundstage and imaging is what these are good at. Everything else, detail, power, voice, emotion is just exceptional, nothing to write home about, especially at the retail price. But for $400, I felt like I got a good deal and Im overall happy with the purchase.

Yes, these are B&O's and alot of audiophiles dont like them. Thats fine, I normally wouldent either. But being these were flagships and quite expensive, they are by no means slouches. So dont give me crap for owning them.
 
Last edited:
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Congrats! If those are the speakers that I'm thinking of, $400 is an absolute steal. I remember that my brother's friend had a pair of B&Os that looked like those (don't remember if they were the exact same model), and they sounded awesome back in the early 90's when I heard them. I had my ear right up against them when they were cranked, and there was no distortion or ear pain at all. Very clean sounding.

I'd gladly pay $400 for those. You got a great deal.
 
E

EYEdROP0

Audioholic
Congrats! If those are the speakers that I'm thinking of, $400 is an absolute steal. I remember that my brother's friend had a pair of B&Os that looked like those (don't remember if they were the exact same model), and they sounded awesome back in the early 90's when I heard them. I had my ear right up against them when they were cranked, and there was no distortion or ear pain at all. Very clean sounding.

I'd gladly pay $400 for those. You got a great deal.
You havent heard clean sound until youve heard drivers that the velodynes used. THD was 1% and below, even at bass frequencies. That is insane for a speaker.

But yes, these B&O's are quite clean at high volumes.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Hey everyone, I have some news. After growing tired and depressed about my Velodyne monitors having a mis-aligned cone, I decided to do some searching for a good deal on craigslist. I came across a deal that I could not refuse. It was the B&O BeoLab Penta 2 for $400. The retail of this speaker was around $4000-$5000 back in 1988.

Now I know alot of you may be thinking "B&O, isnt that kinda like Bose?". The answer is both yes and no. B&O has extremely high prices, often higher than Bose. They are considerd a luxury brand and put alot of effort into making the speakers look pretty. For the money you pay, B&O is not worth it compared to competitors, much like Bose. But one thing they do better than Bose is the sound quality. They do put effort and research into making the speakers have a decent frequency response, both on and off axis, as well as a full soundstage and proper imaging, sensitivity, quality of materials, design, etc... Again, mabey not as cheap or good as competitors, yet still good stuff.

My Pentas are floorstanding speakers with a 150 watt RMS active amp built inside of them. each box has 9 drivers. 4 woofers, 4 mids playing different frequency ranges, and a tweeter. The box is in a shape of a pentagon, which is supposed to minimise reflections and resonances inside the box. They stand about the height of me, 5 feet 3 inches. Each box is heavy as hell, probably atleast 60 lbs.

So how do they sound? Well, considering these were flagship models and expensive as hell at the time, they indeed sound good. I would never, ever pay the $5G retail. But they still sound great. The first thing that caught my attention was the sound stage. It is quite wide, goes up and down, and it dosent make the voice seem 15 feet long like Bose 901's. The imaging and placement is really good, which is probably do to the column design the speakers are arranged in.

The voicing of the speakers is a bit strange to me. The ultra low THD velodynes with dual voice coils had an uncanny ability to project sound quite cleanly, with no cloud or haze over the instruments true sound, so to speak. With these B&O's the sound seems more foggy, yet all the details are still there. Running a sine sweep test reveals there is a suckout somewhere in the mid-bass, but it gets back on track pretty quickly. Im guessing its my room. These go down to about 45-50 hz.

The high bass to lower mids transition is the weakest link in this speaker. The voices, especially male, dont seem to be as "alive" as the velodynes, and the response isnt as smooth, although its still acceptable. The guitar comes out pretty good, as well as acoustic instuments. Again, quite not on par with the Velodynes, but pretty damn close. The tweeter balance is really good on the B&O, and goes up high and flat enough for me.

The sound is a tad laid back for my tastes. I also sense some coloration in the sound, but nothing extreme. Again, the soundstage and imaging is what these are good at. Everything else, detail, power, voice, emotion is just exceptional, nothing to write home about, especially at the retail price. But for $400, I felt like I got a good deal and Im overall happy with the purchase.

Yes, these are B&O's and alot of audiophiles dont like them. Thats fine, I normally wouldent either. But being these were flagships and quite expensive, they are by no means slouches. So dont give me crap for owning them.
B&O is NOTHING like Bloze and I'll have words with anyone who says they are.:D

They have always used high quality drivers, made great looking equipment and their older speakers sounded great. If you look at some of their late '70s/early '80s speakers with the wood veneer cabinets, the similarity to Jamo speakers of the same era is unmistakable. The styling, finish, materials and innards were very similar and their factories were 20 miles apart and I have always thought there was some give and take between the two companies, although the people at Jamo said they really didn't do much of that.

Nice find. Re: the suckout- look for indications of replaced drivers and make sure they were wired correctly.
 
E

Exit

Audioholic Chief
B&O was a premium european audio brand since the early days of radio. They used product designers in addition to engineers to design audio equipment that was both a little different and pleasing to the eye with high quality audio. When their country was occupied by the Nazis in WWII, they were respected enough that they were allowed to continue their business making premium radios pretty much without much interference. In the early seventies, magazine reviewers gave their products hign marks and their products were perceived as high grade with cool styling, but more expensive than competing products. I quit following audio for a good period of time so I don't know how they faired after that time but I expect they maintained their original product philosophy.
 
E

EYEdROP0

Audioholic
After more listening hours with these B&O's, Im able to give more insight on the sound.

My number one complaint is the midrange. It still sounds "cloudy" to me, almost like if there were a blanket in front of the mids. (Ive checked the drivers and they are all original and hooked up properly.) As far as detail, these speakers display alot of the recording, probably as much as my Velodynes did. But as I said before, these sound warm and the uppermost highs are too recessed for my tastes. Even though the pentagon box was supposed to eliminate distortion, I still hear some and this is the cloud Im hearing. Its like everything is there, just too artificial and unrealistic sounding too me.

The imaging, depth, and width are wonderful though. I can pick out details easily because of this. The power response of these speakers is really good too. I can feel the distortion of the guitar in my shirt like at a concert, and I can walk around the room and still hear the music great in any listening position.

But I just miss that utter transparency and the "there" that was in the Velodynes.

If there is anyone in Arizona that wants to trade something for these B&O's, id be interested. Everything including the amplifiers are in perfect working order. Foam rot is just starting to develop on 2 of the 8 midranges, but there are foam kits and drivers available from B&O.

If anyone is interested let me know. But for now, Ill just enjoy them for what they are worth.
 
E

EYEdROP0

Audioholic
I live in Cordes Junction, which is like 50 miles north of phoenix. Im also willing to do some driving, especially if a few bucks in gas money is involved.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
My number one complaint is the midrange. It still sounds "cloudy" to me, almost like if there were a blanket in front of the mids. (Ive checked the drivers and they are all original and hooked up properly.)

Foam rot is just starting to develop on 2 of the 8 midranges,
You don't suppose the cloudy mid-range and foam rot on the mids are related, do you?
 
E

EYEdROP0

Audioholic
You don't suppose the cloudy mid-range and foam rot on the mids are related, do you?
Ive thought about this, and it might be a possibility. But the rot has just begun (like, there is probably no more then a couple cm worth of rot total). Plus, the rot is affecting 2 midranges on one speaker. The other speaker is not suffering from the rot at all, but honestly I cant hear the difference.

I will be refoaming them as soon as I can, If I dont get rid of them first.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Ive thought about this, and it might be a possibility. But the rot has just begun (like, there is probably no more then a couple cm worth of rot total). Plus, the rot is affecting 2 midranges on one speaker. The other speaker is not suffering from the rot at all, but honestly I cant hear the difference.

I will be refoaming them as soon as I can, If I dont get rid of them first.
The rot is the end-stage of the foam going bad, though. They start to sound bad long before that happens. That's one big reason I prefer butyl rubber surrounds.
 
E

EYEdROP0

Audioholic
Mabey these B&O deserve another chance then. Im gonna go ahead and order the re-foam kit, probably today. Ive just never done a refoam before, so Im afraid Ill do a messy job or break something.
 
C

camshaft

Audiophyte
EYEdROP0, you're glad I found you ;) Just kidding of course. I'm both an audiophile (to the degree of building some things such as preamps from scratch) and also a bang and olufsen lover, well mostly their pre-2000 era. There are two types of audio equipment that interest me. One type is the stuff that is completely home-made and often looks like it, but sounds incredible and costs practically nothing compared to the expensive high end stuff. The other type is the stuff that looks so beautiful you don't really care how it sounds. It becomes more of a functional piece of art. B&O does that for me. As for their sound quality, I'll agree with what some of the others have said.

There was a time decades ago when they really were producing high quality equipment even though the prices were high. They moved into a new era following the end of their beosystem 6500 and 7000 series, which was their last line of true separate component systems (amplifier, cd player, turntable, and cassette deck separate). Starting in the early 90's then they moved onto their all-in-one just press a button systems which began to sacrifice sound quality in order to be small and cute (the full 6500 and 7000 systems had weighed about 80 pounds). They also moved to active speakers. They started using relatively cheap drivers in the speakers, but because they were truly active, the digital crossover systems were able to compensate for the frequency responses of the drivers and yield a still moderately decent sounding speaker. In more recent years, they've fortunately moved back to high quality Tymphany (parent brand of SEAS and Peerless) drivers such as in their older speakers. The company is still in a terrible financial situation now though, and I don't know how much we'll still see of them in the next decade.

Now, about your penta 2's. I have a set of Penta 3's myself, which are practically identical. They aren't truly active even though they were the first speakers to take on the "beolab" name, denoting an active speaker. They're just passive speakers with amplifiers at the bottom. In fact, the speaker was also sold for a short time as a "beovox" (instead of "beolab") version without the amplifier bass. As you can see, you have 3 sets of drivers. It is technically a 3.5-way arrangement since the 4 midrange speakers have slightly shifted crossovers. The inner two are shifted slightly higher, while the outer two are shifted slightly lower in the frequency range. Unfortunately, in the case of the pentas, the drivers weren't matched all too perfectly, in either frequency range or quality. The tweeter you'll be happy to hear is a high quality SEAS 19mm ferrofluid unit. I don't remember the model number off the top of my head. The model is discontinued but you can still see the info in the discontinued section of the SEAS website. An equivalent SEAS tweeter is about $30 to $40. Now, the standard SEAS version was a 6-ohm nominal impedance driver. If you look at the back of your tweeter though, you'll see "BO" at the end of the SEAS model number, and underneath it will says "8 ohms". The tweeter is an 8-ohm version made for B&O. We'll get to why later.

Now you're midranges I'm sorry to report are junk. They're made by Haes, a German oem manufacturer for german car speakers, such as those found in your standard bmw. I actually found the same speakers on Parts Express a couple years ago for $5 each. They're very low quality. Furthermore, B&O has arranged the crossover to drive these speakers outside of their intended frequency range. This explains the fuzzy mid range you're hearing.

The crossover design isn't anything to celebrate about. I've forgotten most of what I learned about crossovers several years ago when I was trying to design one, but I still remember one of the major issues I saw with the penta design. The crossover was first used in the Penta 1 in the 80's, and only changed slightly all the way to the Penta 3 in the 90's. A good crossover impedance matches drivers. You can use a 6-ohm driver with an 8-ohm driver without an issue. Those numbers are fairly deceiving anyway though, as the impedance actually changes across the frequency range. The Penta crossover doesn't impedance match the drivers. Instead, they just tried to match the nominal impedances of the drivers themselves, which as I said aren't very meaningful numbers anyway. The main woofers are 8 ohms. So, they had SEAS modify their 6 ohm tweeter to be an 8 ohm tweeter. The midranges are 4 ohms each, so what did they do with those? They put each pair in series. The two center midranges are in series, and so are the two outer, yielding 8 ohms total they though. Unfortunately this reasoning works fine with resistors, but with speakers you don't just mix and match so that their nominal impedances add up to the same number and call it a day.

Now in the case of your rotting midranges, you can find new foam surrounds on ebay and replace the foam yourself. When you decide to undertake the refoaming let me know and I'll walk you through it. Oh, and if you can find them from someone else other than goodhifi I'd recommend trying those. He's a very friendly seller, but the dimensions on his surrounds are a tiny bit off. Not enough to be a problem, but it can be a tad annoying.

Mine are fine, but when they do go I'm going to replace them with higher quality 3" drivers such as these:
madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_241_282&products_id=8305
As you can see, the outer plastic tabs will need to be trimmed so that they can fit in the circular recessed holes of the pentas. On the pentas the circular midranges drop into the face and are held by a bracket on the back. Obviously if you simply changed the midrange drivers they won't be properly matched to the crossovers, but they'll definitely do a better job of playing the frequency range their assigned by the crossover. I think the huge increase in quality of the driver alone would be noticeable. If I feel dedicated enough I'd consider pulling out the whole crossover and trying to match the new drivers to it.

Oh, and I've never been able to find any info on the woofers. So I have no idea whether they're great or junk. Also, I have pdfs of the penta instruction manuals and factory service manuals. If you're interested send me a PM with your email. Also feel free to ask any questions at all.

Good luck,
Austin
 

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