Multichannel vs Stereo

How do you feel about multichannel music?

  • Stereo is Dead! 2 Ch is simply not enough to realistically preproduce a live event. I tend to pref

    Votes: 7 16.3%
  • I prefer MC presentation fo music recorded to take advantage of surround, and I'll take a MC remix o

    Votes: 19 44.2%
  • I sometimes will like a MC recording if it's well done, but I don't care for fiddling with classic s

    Votes: 8 18.6%
  • Surround is fine for movies, but it won't replace stereo for hi end sound. Okay for "electronic mus

    Votes: 11 25.6%
  • Multichannel died with quad. I have two ears, so two is enough channels for playback. MC is a fad

    Votes: 1 2.3%

  • Total voters
    43
A

av_phile

Senior Audioholic
Hi-Res SACDs and DVD-As have dedicated stereo tracks that are often superior to their earlier stereo mixes. The early SACD players from SONY are n stereo only.
 
A

av_phile

Senior Audioholic
Gerald said:
It's all depends of the original source. If the original master tape is stereo , it's better to leave it that way if not it will happen the same thing like the dreadful 60's long plays "Electronicly Processed to Stereo". In some case it's better to even leave it mono like "The Rolling Stones", "Herman Hermits" and "The Animals" sacds released recently.

I love to hear multichannel on sacd and dvd-audio as long there's nothing artificial or bad sense of of stage sound image.

True, some recordings done in the 50s and 60s were in MONO. But majority of performances in all music genres were made using multi-channel 8-track or 16-track open reel masters. That is why even the Nat King Cole voice can be isolated and remixed on his daughter's(Natalie Cole) album to sound like they were having a duet in "Unforgetable." Most of these masters were actually "downmixed" to stereo. And that's what we have for so long. Many of them were remixed to 4-channels in the quadraphonic 70s. Now these multi-track tapes are being "downmixed" to 5.1 SACD or DVD-A.
 
Francious70

Francious70

Senior Audioholic
I come from a car audio background, where almost everything is stereo. I'm used to heraing, or aquainted if you will, 2 channel music. Strange thing is, when I'm at home, I like to be engulfed in the music, hearing it from all sides. I like to feel like I'm surrounded by the music, not watching someone perform in front of me. Weird.

Paul
 
JoeE SP9

JoeE SP9

Senior Audioholic
I suppose I wouldn't feel so negative about surround for music if the producers and engineers did not sit me in the middle of the band. I want to hear a reasonable reproduction of what I would hear at a club or concert. I do listen to classical music and most of that when recorded for surround playback reproduces ambience and hall cues from the rear speakers. Unfortunatly classical is not my primary interest. In essence I want to be in the hall not in the band. I must admit that I've grown so used to surround sound in movies that they don't sound right (to me) without it. Still, music for the most part sounds better to me in 2ch mode. :cool:
 
Rob Babcock

Rob Babcock

Moderator
I agree, Joe, that many discs get it wrong. But you've got to seperate the medium from the program. MC is just a "format" if you will. It can be used badly or it can be used well, just like stereo. I've heard some bad mixes (by my own standards) but I've also heard some superb ones.
 
JoeE SP9

JoeE SP9

Senior Audioholic
True. The proof is that I've been trying to use it for years. From QS (SQ) to Hafler Dynaquad to DPL DD and DTS. I once had a Benchmark ambience recovery system for rear speakers. Before I could afford the Benchmark I built a bucket brigade type delay. I just wish popular music producers would not keep trying to put me in the middle of the band. By the way I chose number 3 in the poll:cool:
 
A

av_phile

Senior Audioholic
For me listening from home playback equipmemt is just that- proivide entertainment at home. I probably have no illusions that I am replicating a live hall performance in the confines of my room. I have long abandoned the concept that hi-fi is about reproducing live performance that I recall when sitting in a concert hall. Hi-fi home playback is simply about reproducing a replica of the performance as closest to the recording made as possible.

So when Multi channel came out, the emphasis on the format was to provide a "listening expeirence" at home that is supposed to be new, exciting, revealling, immersive, etc. The term "realistic" is also used but I have doubts about that. Realism often is defeated with home playback, expecially when I hear panning between stereo channels of the same instrument, as if the musician was running back and forth while playing the congas. Same with multichannel, when you start to hear percussion going around the room, or when you are in the middle of the concert stage with the musicians around you.

But I must say, home playback of such artificially mixed recordings DO provide a totally different, revealing and satisfying listening experience. Those new mixes somehow disentangled some instruments that sounded congested in stereo, or faintly hinted at, and given full detailing and exposure on their own in a separate channel or two. It isn't everyday you find yourself in the middle of the band playing their thing. MC at home puts you right in the middle. It isn't realistic, but I welcome the unique listening experience. Who says home listening has to be as realistic as watching a concert? Excellent stereo, which I like to listen to from time to time, gave some convincing sterephonic imaging of a stage. But that was the most. Realism it never was. So why confine myself to something that can never be achieved? If i wanted the real thing, I'd hitch a ride to the local concert hall.

But those were the first few months on the MC route. The experience was as novel as it was exciting. A colleague likewise wasn't entirely enamoured with the unrealistic immersive feel in many MC pop mixes. So what he did was move the rear speakers slightly to the sides. Result: it somehow made the experience a wee bit convincing by providing a 180 degree soundstage, where he is still hearing mostly front signals but give the illusion he is closer to the stage than ever, not in the middle. In effect, he's listening to 5 channels in front of him, with the rears on the sides giving a much wider soundstage. I tried it and must agree it does provide a wider soundstage in front rather than an immersive feel. I do this when listening to MC and it seems agreeable even in HT mode. But that's just me.
 
JoeE SP9

JoeE SP9

Senior Audioholic
I like that idea of moving the rears around to the sides. Now if I can just figure out how to do that with my ES panels I'll give it a try. :cool:
 
A

av_phile

Senior Audioholic
Depending on the distance with the sides relative to the fronts, you may have to lower the volumes on the sides or do level-matching again. The first time I did this, the rears that went to the sides went closer to me than the fronts effectively making them sound more prominent, almost drowning out the fronts. :D
 
gregz

gregz

Full Audioholic
Great topic!!

Regarding music:
To me, stereo is like listening to the orchestra from the front row while MC is like wanting to sit on the stage with the performers. Either is viable depending upon personal taste and intent of the music, but GOOD stereo images like the dickens in my ordinary room.

Regarding home theatre:
MC is preferable because you're most often viewing the world through the main character and are thus emersed.
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
JoeE SP9 said:
I just wish popular music producers would not keep trying to put me in the middle of the band.
Maybe it's because I was a drummer, but you know what my pet peeve is even in stereo? When the drum kit is all spread out across the soundstage and each piece is miked and panned with, like, the snare drum over here and the ride cymbal over there and the hi-hat way over there...the only person in a performance who hears it even remotely that way is the drummer himself.
 
D

dlorde

Audioholic Intern
Coming late to the stereo/MC discussion - since I got my 5.1 MC system, the unexpected revelation for me has been not MC films or music (there certainly seem to be very few decent surround music mixes), but other audio that rarely seems to get mentioned here - satellite broadcast sports and documentaries. I am constantly amazed by the emotions produced while watching football (soccer), cricket, or rugby, when you can hear the roar and shouts of the crowd from all sides, especially with the BBC interactive options of switching off the commentary and listening only to the game or referee mikes. Formula 1 racing takes on a whole new frisson when cars seem to be roaring around you. Similarly, for documentaries, to have the illusion of being deep in rainforest with creatures rustling, screeching and chirping all around, or the sensation of being out on an exposed plateau or mountain with the wind keening or thunder rumbling around is quite an experience. It's generally only MC decoded stereo, but it has totally transformed my viewing experience.

Curiously, unlike the explicit 5.1 encodings on MC music and film (DD5.1, DTS, DVA, etc), I get the best MC effects for these programmes when the centre channel is not involved (this is the 'Phantom' option on my system). I now find the programmes where MC decoding fails to generate any surround channels sound dull and lifeless...
 
Rob Babcock

Rob Babcock

Moderator
Yeah, I love PLII for football- between that & the 100" screen, the immersion effect is great.
 
D

dlorde

Audioholic Intern
Polkfan said:
Multichannel for me. I'll never go back to stereo.
I'd agree with that, except for most stereo music recordings :rolleyes: The PLII decoding process just takes a little too much life out of the sound (eg the highs are slightly veiled). Some orchestral pieces, such as Rattle's Beethoven symphonies, come across quite well multi-channel, but I find most lose just a little too much for what they gain as MC.
 
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