Multi-room audio setup: newbie questions ...

[ctfoster]

I've been researching this for weeks and I have found pieces of the answer but not all ... so please forgive as one of the other posts said if this has been "beaten to death" elsewhere.

Here is my setup: I have in-ceiling speakers in three rooms in my house and one set outdoors for a total of four sets. Each room (and the outdoors set) have their own impedance matching volume controls. All the speakers are run to the volume controls and from the volume controls to a connecting block in the basement. From the connecting block I have a pair of lines to my living room. In addition I have developed the basement and now have a home theatre setup down there with a projector, screen and 5.1 speaker setup.

At present I am using an older Harmon Kardon Receiver that I hate (long story) for the downstairs home theatre and the multi-room system has been out of use for a while. I'd like to replace the HK Receiver and get the multi-room sound working.

Requirements: I want to be able to watch a movie / play a game downstairs with great quality sound but I'd rather not hear the MarioKart music throughout the rest of the house speakers For that I'd like to be able to listen separately to music or radio. I have an extensive music collection on portable devices and PC's (both iPhone and Android) that I would like to be able to stream through the house easily. I'd also like to hook a SiriusXM Satellite radio for the same purpose.

Questions: I've looked at the Sony STRDN1030 which is a mid-level receiver that gets good reviews. Is it capable of doing all that I've laid out? In particular could it allow me to stream music from an Android or other phone without having to be right in front of it (i.e. using the home network)? Also, the Receiver says it has a zone two setting - if I were to use that for the multi-room audio would I need a separate amplifier? I've looked at the Behringer A500 which comes in at a good price .... if I connected the Behringer input to the output of the Sony zone 2 and then the output of the Behringer down to the connector block in the basement ... would that be a good setup for achieving what I am looking for?

Thanks in advance for you help and forgive (please) any dumb questions.

 

[BMXTRIX]

You do want a receiver with a second zone output such as the Sony. Not really sure of the quality of the Sony as they generally have performed poorly in the past compared to Yamaha and Denon products, but may perform similarly to Pioneer. As for the streaming capabilities, or wireless Bluetooth - that is something entirely different. How the receiver handles internal wireless connections and zone 2 may be very good, or very bad, and you would need to go read the manual carefully to find out. Denon, for example, has AirPlay for Apple built in. You can stream from your iOS device right to the receiver (audio only). While you CAN play this in zone 2 and/or zone 3, you must FIRST play it in zone 1! That's really annoying if you are trying to watch a movie in zone 1. So, instead of an integrated wireless connection, I recommend an external wireless solution. Whether that is a Bluetooth device which plugs into your receiver, or AppleTV or some other solution which works best for your setup is up to you. Oh, and yes, use an external amplifier like the Behrenger.

 

[Grador]

And some advice on external devices: look for something with analog audio outputs. Most receivers are very limited in what they will use on zone 2/3 (partial or no digital support) but all of them will be able to use analog connections.

 

[ctfoster]

Thanks, that's really useful information. I will definitely look at models other than the Sony - not at all stuck on that. Sounds like I am on the right lines with the setup then - a second zone that sends to the amplifier. Just need to make sure the functionality around streaming the music is good as I agree having to play it through zone 1 first would be a major pain! The only thing I don't like about Bluetooth is that I want to be able to stream from anywhere in the house - having to come down to the basement would defeat the purpose. I presume there are tools that allow you to do that through the home wireless network (appreciate the tip to go external).

 

[ctfoster]

Really dumb question coming up - analog connections means just the red and white leads in right - as opposed to optical, etc?

 

[Grador]

Really dumb question coming up - analog connections means just the red and white leads in right - as opposed to optical, etc?

Correct, HDMI is also a digital connection.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Products such as the Roku 3 and AppleTV don't have analog audio outputs on them. In the case of the AppleTV, you can buy an inexpensive DAC (digital to analog audio converter) to get the analog (red/white) audio connections you will need for zone 2. It is worth noting that many new A/V receivers don't have as many analog audio connections as they do digital audio/video connections. That can be a big issue if you want a LOT of sources available to the second zone. So, you may have to pick and choose your specific audio sources to have available to zone 2.

 

[ctfoster]

Thanks for all the great advice. Zone 2 should not be overcomplicated in terms of what I need to connect - mostly I just want to stream from my music library and play satellite radio. Since I have a mix of iOS and Android devices in the house I would like a solution that can handle both. Any ideas on which way to go? Also I presume that all of these sources have to be attached to the Receiver in the basement, the amplifier literally just takes the input audio signal and sends to the speakers, correct? In that case I am going to have to think about distance between the Receiver and the Amplifier with whatever input method I choose ....

 

[BMXTRIX]

I'm not an Android user, so I don't have a solution for Android devices, but I believe the Bluetooth is ubiquitous with compatibility. But, for Apple, the AppleTV is a very strong music and streaming solution that is about as pain free as it gets. It streams via Wi-Fi, so you hard wire the AppleTV to your home network, then any iOS devices on your network can connect to the AppleTV with just a couple of clicks. You will need to do a bit more research to find a good device which plays as nice as AppleTV does for the Android devices out there. With AppleTV, you locate the AppleTV right with the receiver. You WILL need a cheap DAC to turn the Toslink audio into an analog left/right audio to feed the second zones.

 

[ctfoster]

Thanks again for all the very hlpful responses. I will have to do some research on playing back the Android devices but I have found a Receiver that I believe has what I need ... any chance of some feedback? It's the DENON AVR 1913. With the networking, DLNA and support for usb I think it covers the bases I need. It also says it has a "powered zone 2" capability. What does that mean exactly? Will I still be limited to analog inputs? One thing I am confused about, if the Receiver accepts all kinds of HDMI and digital inputs, does it not just send these out through zone 2 and that's the end of it, or is the point that my link from the receiver to my amplifier will be analog and therefore at a degraded audio quality?

 

[BMXTRIX]

It also says it has a "powered zone 2" capability. What does that mean exactly?

I will not comment on the 1913 as I have not used it, but I do use Denon products regularly and I've been reasonably happy with them.

The powered zone 2 means that if you aren't running a 7.1 audio setup in your main theater area, but you are using 5.1, then you can reassign the amp that would have been used for the back speakers to power speakers directly in a second zone. This works very well if you only have one pair of speakers which need power - like in an adjacent room. When you are powering multiple speakers through a speaker selector, I generally recommend against using the A/V receiver's amplifier for the second zone as it will use a lot of the power from the receiver and could make it run hot, or even break it after extended use. It may also compromise the power and quality of the audio within the theater space.

Will I still be limited to analog inputs? One thing I am confused about, if the Receiver accepts all kinds of HDMI and digital inputs, does it not just send these out through zone 2 and that's the end of it...

HDMI comes in as a digital signal and must be converted to analog within the receiver. The Digital to Analog converters (DACs) are an expensive part of the A/V receiver and there is only one set of them in every receiver I've seen. So, zone 2 audio must be fed from an analog source. Fortunately, most devices, such as Blu-ray players, and cable tuners already have an analog audio output. But, some do not, and that means you will need a separate DAC to convert from digital to analog if you want those sources available in zone 2.

...or is the point that my link from the receiver to my amplifier will be analog and therefore at a degraded audio quality?

Well, all your audio ends up being analog. Our ears are analog, and your speakers are analog, and the HDMI audio that comes into the receiver gets converted to analog. The use of an analog connection could mean slightly worse audio, but it more likely is going to deliver identical audio quality, or can even have BETTER audio quality depending on the quality of the DACs that are used at the source. Really good products, such as the Oppo BDP-103, have some of the best DACs on the market in them, so the use of analog audio would typically be better than the digital audio connection would provide. Hope that all makes sense.

 

[ctfoster]

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I have one follow up question if you would be so kind. Would your concern about the receiver running hot still apply if the second zone ran to another amplifier? In my research I saw that people recommend running zone two off to a separate amplifier (like the Behringer), and then through a connecting block power the multi-room setup from there. Obviously that allows the Receiver to be used as the source but not the power, ....? While I am at it, could an existing receiver be used to receive that second zone and pass it off to the multi-room speakers?

That was more than one question and I have one more ... I see on the receiver where to run the zone 2 from (it usually utilizes the 'back surround' outputs) - where does it come into on the amplifier / second receiver? Typically of course speaker wires are output only ..... so where would they plug into for the amplifier to receive the output and then do it's thing ...

 

[Grador]

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I have one follow up question if you would be so kind. Would your concern about the receiver running hot still apply if the second zone ran to another amplifier? In my research I saw that people recommend running zone two off to a separate amplifier (like the Behringer), and then through a connecting block power the multi-room setup from there. Obviously that allows the Receiver to be used as the source but not the power, ....? While I am at it, could an existing receiver be used to receive that second zone and pass it off to the multi-room speakers?

That was more than one question and I have one more ... I see on the receiver where to run the zone 2 from (it usually utilizes the 'back surround' outputs) - where does it come into on the amplifier / second receiver? Typically of course speaker wires are output only ..... so where would they plug into for the amplifier to receive the output and then do it's thing ...

Using an external amplifier would pull the load of the second zone off completely off of the receiver, so heat would not be an issue then. You could use a second receiver, but it is a sub-optimal setup as you'll have two preamps at that point.

For running an external amplifier for zone 2 you'll need to locate the "zone 2 pre-outs" You cannot use the amplifier output to send a signal to another amplifier.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I've run through multiple receivers before... Had to get more analog inputs so I ran several analog audio sources into receiver 1, then ran zone 3 (don't ask) into receiver 2, then output of zone 2 of receiver 2 into a dedicated amplifier. The zone 2 output from receiver 1 was set as 'fixed' at 0db, while the second receiver's output was variable to adjust volume. Seemed to work alright. But, it really depends on your audio setup and the number of speakers you are trying to drive.

In your case, you aren't just running one pair of extra speakers, but multiple sets. That's REALLY hard on an A/V receiver.

So, I would go with an external amplifier. You can even pick up a multi-channel dedicated external amplifier from various locations. Companies like Sonance and Niles make very good multi-channel amplifiers which provide independent channels of amplification for all your speakers. It's a great way to go, and you can often pick them up for not a lot of money via eBay.

This, for example, has a few channels out (per the listing), but still has 8 working channels of audio...
Sonance Sonamp 1250 12 Channel Power Amplifier | eBay

It is covered by eBay buyer protection and would allow for discrete amplification of your speakers, for $220.00. A really good price for what it will deliver.

There are other options on eBay - search 12 channel amplifier and 8 channel amplifier for some choices.

 

[jotham]

I know everyone here is focusing on a super receiver that does everything but with that comes added complexity. Depending on who you want using the system and what you are trying to do, it may make more sense to just have two receivers.

If I wanted an easy to use system that my family could handle, I might consider this....

1. Surround sound receiver for all movies and such in zone 1

2. Stereo receiver for zone 2 that handles music and has iphone/android control. You might have to get a surround sound receiver to get the phone control.

My point is, yeah, this isn't a one box solution but you also won't accidentally stream mario kart through the house or have your movie interrupted when someone else "tries" to get the music working.

Now, getting the music to the second receiver might be tricky but again, any receiver that has phone control will also likely have network music streaming of some kind. Worst case, you add one of the million streaming devices out there to your setup.

Something like this could be your second receiver and handle the music side well.
Amazon.com: Pioneer VSX-822-K 400W 5-Channel A/V Receiver, Network Ready, Pandora, iPod/iPhone, Black: Electronics

Jotham