MP3 sounds better than a CDR?

[suebndave]

Can an MP3 sound better when played on a computer then when burning it as an audio or WAV file on a CDR, and listening to that CDR on the same computer?

Here's the scenario:

Some guy makes MP3's of songs only available on a record (remember those? Phantom Rocker & Slick if you're interested). He then puts them into a RAR file (similar to a ZIP file), which I downloaded, then I got the MP3 files out of that RAR file. The MP3's are 192 kbps. When listening to them using headphones connected to my computer, they sound pretty good. But when I burn them to a CDR and listen to that CDR on the same headphones on the same computer, the quality isn't as good. It's more muffled or muddy. Not terribly so, but still noticeable. Even if I convert the MP3 to a WAV file first, then copy it to a CDR, that same file still sounds muffled on CDR.

I'm surprised. Why would an MP3 sound better than a CDR would? I'd expect it to be the same or worse.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Dave
vanhalenwithroth@aol.com

 

[JoeE SP9]

When you convert an MP3 file to wave and then to RB CD there is a quality loss. Remember that you are starting with a file which was created with lossy compression. You can't get back what was never there. MP3 files created at 192K are easily distinguishable from the originals no matter what the originals were.

 

[bpape]

If you want the real deal, rip to EAC and compress with FLAC. Then burn lossless to WAV for a disc or find a player that will play FLAC directly.

Bryan

 

[MDS]

There is no quality loss when you convert an MP3 to WAV and then burn a CD - the 'quality' was lost when the file was first recorded or ripped from an original CD and then converted to MP3. When you then convert that MP3 to WAV you are doing nothing more than decoding the MP3 - the same thing WinAmp or Windows Media Player does when you play it.

Maybe the CDR was of poor quality and the burn wasn't of high quality. Maybe it has to do with the CD player in the computer and the sound card and your settings. Maybe it's just a perceived difference because the data is the same.

 

[rtcp]

In older PCs(Non-Windows XP, and/or older hardware) they use a crappy two-pin unshielded cable to run analog audio from the CD drive to the soundcard. You are then using the DAC in the CD drive, too. That's the only thing that I could see causing it.

 

[krabapple]

Can an MP3 sound better when played on a computer then when burning it as an audio or WAV file on a CDR, and listening to that CDR on the same computer?

Here's the scenario:

Some guy makes MP3's of songs only available on a record (remember those? Phantom Rocker & Slick if you're interested). He then puts them into a RAR file (similar to a ZIP file), which I downloaded, then I got the MP3 files out of that RAR file. The MP3's are 192 kbps. When listening to them using headphones connected to my computer, they sound pretty good. But when I burn them to a CDR and listen to that CDR on the same headphones on the same computer, the quality isn't as good. It's more muffled or muddy. Not terribly so, but still noticeable. Even if I convert the MP3 to a WAV file first, then copy it to a CDR, that same file still sounds muffled on CDR.

I'm surprised. Why would an MP3 sound better than a CDR would? I'd expect it to be the same or worse.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Dave
vanhalenwithroth@aol.com

Without the details of how you are converting MP3 to CDR (which will involve a .wav step in between) it's hard to know. It shouldn't *necessarily* result in quality degradation, since all you are doing is sampling the mp3 at 16/44 -- more than enough to capture anything in an mp3 faithfully.

When you convert the mp3 to wav, and comapre *those*, without burning anything to a CDR, how do they sound?

Btw, ithout doing the comparison blind, you run a significant risk of being 'fooled' into thinking one sounds different from the other. Try downloading
winABX and comapring the mp3 to the .wav you made form it, under blind conditions.

http://www.kikeg.arrakis.es/winabx/

 

[suebndave]

When you convert the mp3 to wav, and comapre *those*, without burning anything to a CDR, how do they sound?

They sound the same.

 

[krabapple]

They sound the same.

So let me see if I understand you:

You have mp3s on a hard drive, and when you convert them to wav, the wav and the mp3 sound the same.

But when you burn the wav to CDR, it sounds different from the mp3 (or the wav) on the hard drive.

Three possibilities:

1) you're imagining it

2) bad ripping

3) bad playback


Test #1 first. There are two ways to do it. One is a blind A/B between CDR
playback and the original mp3 (or wav). If that's negative, then you have your answer.

The other is to convert the mp3 to wav, then burn the wav to CDR, then re-rip the track from the CDR back to your hard drive. The rip should be bit-identical to the original wav.

If it is, and you aresn't simply imagining the audio difference, then the only possible problem is playback -- you are using different settings for CDR playback than mp33 for exampel (some sort of EQ in your
media player?).

If it isn't bit-identical then you have burning and/or ripping issues, and should use Exact Audio Copy or consider a new CD-RW drive.

 

[MDS]

Some guy makes MP3's of songs only available on a record (remember those? Phantom Rocker & Slick if you're interested).

The source for the mp3's was NOT a CD per his original post. Why keep mentioning EAC?

 

[jonnythan]

In older PCs(Non-Windows XP, and/or older hardware) they use a crappy two-pin unshielded cable to run analog audio from the CD drive to the soundcard. You are then using the DAC in the CD drive, too. That's the only thing that I could see causing it.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner.

There is no quality loss going from MP3 to WAV. You're merely uncompressing the file.

The problem is the audio conversion and transport. There's a super-shitty 2-pin 28-gauge wire connecting the CD drive to the sound card. The CD drive has a built-in super-shitty DAC to make the CD drive cost $10, and the audio is transmitted using this tiny cable.

The sound will be different because the actual analog waveform is being generated by the CD player instead of the sound card, and the sound will be worse because the CD player's DAC sucks more than the sound card's.

If you rip the tracks from the CD to WAV format on the PC, they should sound identical to the MP3s on the computer. When you do this, you're taking the exact information from the CD, but using the sound card's DAC to process and output it.

 

[rtcp]

Thank you. No one listens to the guy with 28 posts.

Assuming that is the problem, and you're running Windows XP/2000, and have supported hardware, click Start->Run, type devmgmt.msc, enter, and open the plus sign next to your CD drive(s). Right click on it/them, click Properties, click the Properties tab, and check the box under Digital CD Playback.

 

[suebndave]

rtcp, I'm the guy with the problem so believe me, I'm listening.

I followed your instructions, rebooted and then tried another burn but unfortunately the sound on the CD is the same as before. I'm guessing that's because of your & jonnythan's observation that I have cheap wiring & DAC, and no setting change will fix that.

So is it worth it to replace that wiring & DAC, or is that more trouble than it's worth? I'm thinking it is and should just get a new drive as krabapple mentioned.

Anyone disagree or is there anything else I can try? Thanks to all for their suggestions. Unfortunately EAC could not solve this though it has helped me in the past and I recommend it to anyone.

~Dave

 

[3db]

try this

rtcp, I'm the guy with the problem so believe me, I'm listening.

I followed your instructions, rebooted and then tried another burn but unfortunately the sound on the CD is the same as before. I'm guessing that's because of your & jonnythan's observation that I have cheap wiring & DAC, and no setting change will fix that.

So is it worth it to replace that wiring & DAC, or is that more trouble than it's worth? I'm thinking it is and should just get a new drive as krabapple mentioned.

Anyone disagree or is there anything else I can try? Thanks to all for their suggestions. Unfortunately EAC could not solve this though it has helped me in the past and I recommend it to anyone.

~Dave

Burn both a mp3 and cda tracks on one CD if possible, take the CD and play it in your stereo system if you have one. If both sound teh same, then I would think that teh DACs in your CD burner is the culprit.

 

[rtcp]

rtcp, I'm the guy with the problem so believe me, I'm listening.

I followed your instructions, rebooted and then tried another burn but unfortunately the sound on the CD is the same as before. I'm guessing that's because of your & jonnythan's observation that I have cheap wiring & DAC, and no setting change will fix that.

What that setting does is it sends the audio as a digital signal to the soundcard, rather than using the crappy analog two-pin cable and CD drive DAC that we were talking about. This way, the soundcard is using it's DAC, effectively using the same hardware as when you play an MP3. So if you are still having that issue, this isn't the cause, and I have no idea what it would be.

So is it worth it to replace that wiring & DAC, or is that more trouble than it's worth? I'm thinking it is and should just get a new drive as krabapple mentioned.
~Dave

Don't bother replacing that cable, and the DAC in the CD drive is no longer in use. In fact, you could remove the cable if you are in fact using the digital cd playback method.

Burn both a mp3 and cda tracks on one CD if possible, take the CD and play it in your stereo system if you have one. If both sound teh same, then I would think that teh DACs in your CD burner is the culprit.

It can't be those DACs if the sound is still different when Digital CD Playback is turned on.

Are you using the same software to play your CDs and mp3s? Because it could be some sort of "audio enhancement" software interfering.

 

[3db]

What that setting does is it sends the audio as a digital signal to the soundcard, rather than using the crappy analog two-pin cable and CD drive DAC that we were talking about. This way, the soundcard is using it's DAC, effectively using the same hardware as when you play an MP3. So if you are still having that issue, this isn't the cause, and I have no idea what it would be.

Don't bother replacing that cable, and the DAC in the CD drive is no longer in use. In fact, you could remove the cable if you are in fact using the digital cd playback method.


It can't be those DACs if the sound is still different when Digital CD Playback is turned on.

Are you using the same software to play your CDs and mp3s? Because it could be some sort of "audio enhancement" software interfering.

Whoaa . Your assuming that he's using teh digital input on his soundcard and not the analog in on the soundcard. From what he's stating in terms of sound quality, I bet ya dollars to donuts he's using the analog out from his CD-R to his analog in of his sound card. If thats the case, then its going to be the DACs on the burner that is the issue. Thats why I suggested he burn both types to a CD-R and play it using another source..

 

[rtcp]

Whoaa . Your assuming that he's using teh digital input on his soundcard and not the analog in on the soundcard.

That's entirely what my discussion has been about. By enabling Digital CD Playback, you aren't using the analog out to the soundcard.