More Yamaha 801 questions...

P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I looked at Cambridge Audio and NAD (and many others!) as I was shopping around before I settled on the Yamaha. If I had had the budget, I would have gone for the Parasound HINT; a couple grand more and it would have been the Anthem STR...
STR is too much, the Anthem 225 seems like a good deal, imo better than the A-S801 from purity stand point, for a few dollars more.
 
Mid-Fi

Mid-Fi

Audioholic Intern
I looked up that Parasound Hint 6. What's the price on that?
I checked their website and followed links to their listed dealers. Those don't even list products let alone prices.
They just say "contact us for a consultation."
Yeah, just found the price. Oooff!
 
John Parks

John Parks

Audioholic Field Marshall
STR is too much, the Anthem 225 seems like a good deal, imo better than the A-S801 from purity stand point, for a few dollars more.
Ah, yes, but we are talking about modern integrated amps with built-in DACs, which the (discontinued) 225 does not have. The STR has that capability and ARC.
 
John Parks

John Parks

Audioholic Field Marshall
Yeah, just found the price. Oooff!
Agreed! It is an excellent piece of workmanship and is, unfortunately, out of my budgetary reach (at this juncture). Of course, it is cheap compared to the Anthem STR at $4500.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Ah, yes, but we are talking about modern integrated amps with built-in DACs, which the (discontinued) 225 does not have. The STR has that capability and ARC.
Are you not open to a low cost external portable Dac? I have a few, am very impressed.
 
John Parks

John Parks

Audioholic Field Marshall
Are you not open to a low cost external portable Dac? I have a few, am very impressed.
Oh, yes - I most certainly am! I was just trying to keep within the bounds of the conversation.

When I put together my latest system - computer, universal player, turntable, amp, speaker, sub - simplicity was my goal. I've had many multi-component solutions in the past. Now that I have a handle on what the Yammy can and cannot do (it is quite transparent, by the way, and communicates upstream changes [which I won't go into on this site] quite nicely) I am keen to explore "upgrades" such as something better than my Oppo BD-103 and/or the DAC built in to the A-S801. I've got my eye on a few at the moment... ;)
 
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KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
I looked up that Parasound Hint 6. What's the price on that?
I checked their website and followed links to their listed dealers. Those don't even list products let alone prices.
They just say "contact us for a consultation."
It's about $3000 at full list, can be had for about $2500 from a good dealer.
 
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John Parks

John Parks

Audioholic Field Marshall
Are you not open to a low cost external portable Dac? I have a few, am very impressed.
What DACs are you rocking these days? I am now familiar with the ESS ES9010K2M found in the Yammy (I did not realize the 'M' stood for mobile, as in developed for mobile phones or DAPs - not that that should make a difference...) the ES9018K2M in my Pioneer XDP-100R (this one makes sense to have an 'M' chip) and the Cirrus Logic CS4382A in my Oppo '103. I've ben doing a lot of reading on Chord's take on things (Mojo or Qutest) and R2R DACs (BorderPatrol). iFi has some interesting products, like the xDSD DAC with its Burr-Brown DSD1793 chip. So many flavors!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
What DACs are you rocking these days? I am now familiar with the ESS ES9010K2M found in the Yammy (I did not realize the 'M' stood for mobile, as in developed for mobile phones or DAPs - not that that should make a difference...) the ES9018K2M in my Pioneer XDP-100R (this one makes sense to have an 'M' chip) and the Cirrus Logic CS4382A in my Oppo '103. I've ben doing a lot of reading on Chord's take on things (Mojo or Qutest) and R2R DACs (BorderPatrol). iFi has some interesting products, like the xDSD DAC with its Burr-Brown DSD1793 chip. So many flavors!
I have the HA-1, Sonica, Mojo, Xduoo XD-05, Xduoo TA-01, Fioo X5, CA DACMagic XS, Encore mDSD, aside from that, the BDP-105 can also work as an USD DAC. I gave my DACMagic XS and Encore mDSD away as I couldn't find any reasons/time to use those. They are/were all great values except for the Mojo. The Mojo and HA-1 are class A, but no audible advantage according to my ears and graphs. They are just fun to use, and I really like their portability and flexibility. DACs are very cost effective nowadays. In my opinion/experience there is no need to spend any more than a few hundred dollars, or even $200. I also think it does not make much sense to have one onboard an integrated amp, let the amp just amplify!!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I have the HA-1, Sonica, Mojo, Xduoo XD-05, Xduoo TA-01, Fioo X5, CA DACMagic XS, Encore mDSD, aside from that, the BDP-105 can also work as an USD DAC. I gave my DACMagic XS and Encore mDSD away as I couldn't find any reasons/time to use those. They are/were all great values except for the Mojo. The Mojo and HA-1 are class A, but no audible advantage according to my ears and graphs. They are just fun to use, and I really like their portability and flexibility. DACs are very cost effective nowadays. In my opinion/experience there is no need to spend any more than a few hundred dollars, or even $200. I also think it does not make much sense to have one onboard an integrated amp, let the amp just amplify!!
Sounds like an argument for separates, let alone wimpy integrated amps :) Why is $200 a reasonable pricepoint for a DAC (with various features)?
 
N

noway

Audiophyte
...The A-S801 has a decent DAC chip, the ES9010K2M but that's for the USB DAC, not for the optical/coax input signals.
I contacted Yamaha today to verify this and their reply quoted below was:

Please note that the A-S801 uses one single ESS ES9010K2M DAC which converts Coax/Optical and USB DAC inputs.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I contacted Yamaha today to verify this and their reply quoted below was:

Please note that the A-S801 uses one single ESS ES9010K2M DAC which converts Coax/Optical and USB DAC inputs.
Good to know, but please note that quite often manufacturer's first line customer support reps may not have the most accurate information so I am not sure in this case they are 100% accurate. One only have to read through some of the Denon/Marantz responses to ASR members enquiry on the recent DAC chip change after the AKM factory fire to know the issue.

That being said, I was quite aware of the very likely scenario that the ES9010K2M might have been used for the Coax/Optical inputs as well. It is not 100% imo (may be 90:)) because of the conflicting information on the service manual. Regardless, I should have mentioned it in my post that it was just a possibility. That post is too old for me to edit now, unfortunately.

Block Diagram - Yamaha A-S801 Service Manual [Page 36] | ManualsLib

If you look at page 35 and page 36 (block diagram) you will see the reference to the PCM5101, and the block diagram shows the coax/optical input signal are routed to the PCM5101. So that's what made me hesitate to assume the ESS chip was used for everything.

The ES9010K2M is not even as good as the ES9026Pro used in Yamaha's AVRs such as the RX-A6A and A8A though that's just based on specs but it is much better than the PCM5101 so I do hope that the Yamaha rep is correct.
 
N

noway

Audiophyte
More info on the A-S801. In addition to e-mailing Yamaha Canada (see their response Post #33, I also e-mailed Yamaha USA and here's their response:

The A-S801 uses two different DACs. The ESS Sabre DAC (ES9010K) is used for the USB input. A Texas Instruments Burr-Brown DAC (PCM9211) is used for the optical and coaxial inputs.

Not sure about that response either because the PCM9211 isn't even a DAC. I ordered a Supra USB cable (currently using Coax) so it'll be interesting to compare my current Coax with USB when it arrives.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
More info on the A-S801. In addition to e-mailing Yamaha Canada (see their response Post #33, I also e-mailed Yamaha USA and here's their response:

The A-S801 uses two different DACs. The ESS Sabre DAC (ES9010K) is used for the USB input. A Texas Instruments Burr-Brown DAC (PCM9211) is used for the optical and coaxial inputs.

Not sure about that response either because the PCM9211 isn't even a DAC. I ordered a Supra USB cable (currently using Coax) so it'll be interesting to compare my current Coax with USB when it arrives.
First line customer support people are not very technically oriented. If you frequent ASR, you will see a good example of this where different Denon/Marantz support team members responded different to the question on which DAC chip they are using in the D+M AVRs last spring, after the AKM factory fire.

That's why I can only say I am not 100% sure (because the block diagram in the SM does show coax/optical inputs are routed to the PCM 5101 via the PCM9211) that the ESS chip is doing it all in the A-S801. If you are bothered by the PCM5101 in case that's the one used for coax/optical then you can easily grab a cheap external DAC that will have much better specs than even the ES9010K2M. In terms of audible difference, I think you have to have those golden ears to hear/detect it.:)
 
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