More snake oil, with a side of science.

[jaxvon]

While cruising the wonders of the internet today, one thing led to another and I ended up here:

Analysis Plus

They seem to have some interesting ideas. They promote science in some parts of their site, but then fall back into the ol' snake oil garbage. Considering that I live only like 2 hours away, I might stop by their place of business sometime.

I sent the company an email requesting cable measurements. We'll see if I get a real response or just some marketing BS.

 

[surveyor]

While cruising the wonders of the internet today, one thing led to another and I ended up here:

Analysis Plus

They seem to have some interesting ideas. They promote science in some parts of their site, but then fall back into the ol' snake oil garbage. Considering that I live only like 2 hours away, I might stop by their place of business sometime.

I sent the company an email requesting cable measurements. We'll see if I get a real response or just some marketing BS.

In the words of Cheech and Chong:
Smell, umm smell like sh!..t. Taste, umm taste like sh!..t. Umm, must be sh!..t

 

[Az B]

Interesting. I think the most telling point is that they sell 6ft of XLR interconnect for audiophiles for $600, but a pro mic cable (that looks pretty similar) is a little over $100 for 12ft.

Sounds like the audiophile market might have more money than wannabe musicians.

 

[mtrycrafts]

While cruising the wonders of the internet today, one thing led to another and I ended up here:

Analysis Plus

They seem to have some interesting ideas. They promote science in some parts of their site, but then fall back into the ol' snake oil garbage. Considering that I live only like 2 hours away, I might stop by their place of business sometime.

I sent the company an email requesting cable measurements. We'll see if I get a real response or just some marketing BS.

Don't waste your time visiting

I think we would be interested in their numbers, R,C,I. You may ask for a frequency response plot to 20kHz You may ask for the skin effect losses, in dB at 10kHz and 20kHz
Current density in the center of a 12 ga cable at 20kHz?

Phase shift for their time smearing analysis

Where is the distortion levels at that they are minimizing with their cable design?

A Steve Eddy had a reputable engineer measure distortion with nothing down to -130 to -150 dB in several ordinary cables.

And, most important of all, listening DATA. Since they say the ear is the best for this, they certainly don't need eyes and they would have real ear data, DBT, that is Or, they don't really trust their ears and must also see?

But, don't hold your breath. I called them in the past. Their response: go to their dealers and listen

 

[surveyor]

So, here's the nifty e-mail I got from them. I'm not sure what to make of it, but I'm leaning towards skeptical.





I've also attatched the thumbnail of the picture he sent me. I'm not sure how they got this measurement, but it sure looks nifty.

That thumbnail scares me, sending a digital signal to a speaker? I would not want to listen to one and zeros through a speaker that is supposed to be getting an analog signal. This is not even logical snake oil! You see I'm an Aggie and this does not even work for me.

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

And with the money they're getting you'd think they could afford a newer scope!

(Yeah, OK, before you EE types say it, I know some techs swear by older scopes)

 

[mtrycrafts]

That thumbnail scares me, sending a digital signal to a speaker? I would not want to listen to one and zeros through a speaker that is supposed to be getting an analog signal. This is not even logical snake oil! You see I'm an Aggie and this does not even work for me.

He sent a 20kHz square wave So what? Music is below this

 

[mtrycrafts]

So, here's the nifty e-mail I got from them. I'm not sure what to make of it, but I'm leaning towards skeptical.





I've also attatched the thumbnail of the picture he sent me. I'm not sure how they got this measurement, but it sure looks nifty.

I am still not seeing th ethumbnail images

I don't see capacitance as the parameter people look for in speaker cables. It is when poorly designed amps are used such as the Naim and the company is correct on that issue alone.

Use of 20kHz square wave doesn't tell you what the music will be like below 20Khz

They will never answer the right question, sonic differences between their cable and 12 ga Home Depot cable at $.30/ft

 

[surveyor]

He sent a 20kHz square wave So what? Music is below this

Your right.

 

[jaxvon]

Of course, one must also be suspect of those OTHER cables that he uses to connect the the Sillyscope with the amp and the speakers. Those sure don't look like something high-end to me. In fact, it's probably something manufactured by Belden or Canare with some proprietary connections. If your scope (and therefore its associated cables) is good enough to be accurate, then what's the problem with 'normal' cables? HMMM!

 

[mtrycrafts]

If your scope (and therefore its associated cables) is good enough to be accurate, then what's the problem with 'normal' cables? HMMM!

Yep, maybe we should use those scope cables
If it is good enough for the scope, it is good enough for our ears

 

[jneutron]

Of course, one must also be suspect of those OTHER cables that he uses to connect the the Sillyscope with the amp and the speakers. Those sure don't look like something high-end to me. In fact, it's probably something manufactured by Belden or Canare with some proprietary connections. If your scope (and therefore its associated cables) is good enough to be accurate, then what's the problem with 'normal' cables? HMMM!

Bummer, second time I answered this...guess I forgot to actually post it..

Howe come nobody is lookin closely to the pic????

1. Why is the top trace not flat at the top? It looks like they didn't compensate the probe correctly. Geeze, it only takes a screwdriver on that cap thingy...

2. Howzacome nobody is screamin bloody murder over the bottom trace?????

The transition to the RL exponential curve waits until the leading edge has gone halfway through it's excursion...what the heck is goin on there??

Don't wire manu companies have EE's or physics guys to look at this stuff???

3. What does the voltage at the speaker have to do with a voice-coil actuator that is a current driven device??? If you want to see how a wire affects the speaker, ya gotta use a very low impedance CVR, one that is less than 5% of the value of the speaker load to limit the measurement errors.. And, compare that to the amp terminal voltage...not the floobydust pic they used as a response...

My goodness, even I could do better...

Cheers, John

 

[gene]

None of this surprises me. However, Analysis Plus is supposed to have a staff of engineers since they have other business ventures besides cables that would require it. I did peruse their site regarding their cable theory and found much of it to be questionable. However I have no personal experience with their products so I will refrain from commenting on their quality.

Jaxvon, one question: Did you get their permission to post their email on this forum? Thanks.

 

[Dan Banquer]

More Snake Oil

"Howe come nobody is lookin closely to the pic????

1. Why is the top trace not flat at the top? It looks like they didn't compensate the probe correctly. Geeze, it only takes a screwdriver on that cap thingy...

2. Howzacome nobody is screamin bloody murder over the bottom trace?????

The transition to the RL exponential curve waits until the leading edge has gone halfway through it's excursion...what the heck is goin on there??

Don't wire manu companies have EE's or physics guys to look at this stuff???

3. What does the voltage at the speaker have to do with a voice-coil actuator that is a current driven device??? If you want to see how a wire affects the speaker, ya gotta use a very low impedance CVR, one that is less than 5% of the value of the speaker load to limit the measurement errors.. And, compare that to the amp terminal voltage...not the floobydust pic they used as a response...

My goodness, even I could do better..."

There's a few reasons you're not in sales John. You know how to calibrate a scope probe, and you know how to calibrate an LCR meter. This may come as crushing blow to you, (yeah right) but you will never make it in the speaker cable/snake oil business.
Are you ready for kosher chicken fat?
The Ever Evil Doctor Steel

 

[jneutron]

Dan Banquer
There's a few reasons you're not in sales John. You know how to calibrate a scope probe, and you know how to calibrate an LCR meter. This may come as crushing blow to you, (yeah right) but you will never make it in the speaker cable/snake oil business.

Oh, the inhumanity of it all!!!

Cheers, John

 

[jaxvon]

No Gene, I didn't get permission. I just sent Mark an email about the subject, so we'll see. If he says no, I'll let you know so you can kill the thread.

 

[WmAx]

Jaxvon, one question: Did you get their permission to post their email on this forum? Thanks.

Why does he need permission? Too the best of my knowledge(I could be totally wrong!), recieved e-mails are the property of the reciever unless a prior legal agreement was made before the communication that states otherwise.....

Or is this an ethical concern?

-Chris

 

[gene]

Internet is a strange place and people are lawsuit happy. Since I am not a lawyer I can't answer the legal implications intelligently . However, as a courtesy, I always ask permissions before I repost someones words especially in a public forum such as this. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot. Might be wise to ask anyways and I wont say anything if all of you dont

 

[WmAx]

Internet is a strange place and people are lawsuit happy. Since I am not a lawyer I can't answer the legal implications intelligently . However, as a courtesy, I always ask permissions before I repost someones words especially in a public forum such as this. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot. Might be wise to ask anyways and I wont say anything if all of you dont

I understand your cautious attitude. But as for the 'shoe on the other foot' issue; I have always been careful to reply to strangers via e-mail in the same manner as I would have answered them on a public forum. Of course, I am biased - I've posted emails from a company rep on a public forum in the past without his permission.

-Chris

 

[jneutron]

Or is this an ethical concern?
-Chris

For me, it would be purely ethical.

John