More mids

[griffinconst]

Is there a way I can coax more mids from my Jamo 450's?
They have excellent highs and lows but I don't hear enough rhythm guitar or actual bass "notes". Maybe I'm wanting more midbass? The bass seems good but not detailed.
Got any advice? Would bi-wiring do anything? I read that is a waste of time and cable. How about better wire? My cable is 14AWG from Monoprice.
What about bi-amping? I really don't want to do that as I will lose my surround system but might that help?

 

[jostenmeat]

Forget changing wire, biwiring, or biamping.

Consider speaker placement, listener placement, room treatments, EQ, and speaker modifications or upgrade.

Pull your speakers away from the front wall another couple feet. How does it sound now?

Pull the speakers away from any nearby sidewalls a couple of feet. Thoughts?

If you are against the back wall, put some sliders on the couch feet, get away at least a few feet. Impressions?

Starting point for listener position in a closed rectangular room is 38% of the room length. Variation from room to room, but will be close to that.

Start with all of the above. Because it is all free.

You may consider trapping for bass, particularly at the corners, or meetings of boundaries. First reflection points are normally a good thing to absorb as well, if you're at it.

My HT speakers are also not extremely transparent when it comes to midbass, and I guess that this is attributed to cabinet resonance to some extent. Also, my center speaker is too close to floor, which will create large midbass boosts that in turn mask dialogue frequencies. I have significantly treated my room, then applied Audyssey MultEQ XT to very beneficial effect, IMO.

If Chris or Andrew are remotely familiar with your speakers, they may have recommendations on speaker mods. If they were willing, had the time, thought it was even worthwhile, and you have money, you might be able to send your speakers to them for mods that you are unwilling to do yourself.

Or you can upgrade speakers.

 

[tom67]

Good advice from Jmeat....you didnt indicate whether you were using a sub...also try playing with your speaker setup from your listening position......first, try your mains on 2 channel stereo for music. If you like it better, then try setting the sub to 60hz (especially if you have a sloppy sub), so your sub doesnt produce sloppy higher bass that may muddy the otherwise clear bass that your mains are producing...I have a muddy sub which is fine for HT, but must be set lower for music or I get no clarity in the midrange bass where the guitar content you like probably resides....

 

[griffinconst]

Thanks for a quick response guys.
I am running the mains with no sub and my receiver set to full range. I have an Onkyo 805.
I am running my Jamo 450's against old B&W 220's. I am not hearing things on the Jamo's that I hear on the B&W's. The mids seem to be week on the Jamo's. Nothing seems separated. I can barely hear the rhythm guitar, female vocals don't sound as clear, and the bass sounds lower on the Jamo's but not as detailed.
These are right next to each other so I don't think treatments will solve my problem.
Am I wrong, or?
Help me pleeeese!

 

[griffinconst]

I am fairly new. I don't know Chris or Andrew. Could you send them to my post?
Jamo's are supposed to be very good speakers. A buddy has some, a lesser model than mine, and they sound great.

 

[fast1]

Forget changing wire, biwiring, or biamping.

Consider speaker placement, listener placement, room treatments, EQ, and speaker modifications or upgrade.

Pull your speakers away from the front wall another couple feet. How does it sound now?

Pull the speakers away from any nearby sidewalls a couple of feet. Thoughts?

If you are against the back wall, put some sliders on the couch feet, get away at least a few feet. Impressions?

Starting point for listener position in a closed rectangular room is 38% of the room length. Variation from room to room, but will be close to that.

Start with all of the above. Because it is all free.

You may consider trapping for bass, particularly at the corners, or meetings of boundaries. First reflection points are normally a good thing to absorb as well, if you're at it.

My HT speakers are also not extremely transparent when it comes to midbass, and I guess that this is attributed to cabinet resonance to some extent. Also, my center speaker is too close to floor, which will create large midbass boosts that in turn mask dialogue frequencies. I have significantly treated my room, then applied Audyssey MultEQ XT to very beneficial effect, IMO.

If Chris or Andrew are remotely familiar with your speakers, they may have recommendations on speaker mods. If they were willing, had the time, thought it was even worthwhile, and you have money, you might be able to send your speakers to them for mods that you are unwilling to do yourself.

Or you can upgrade speakers.

how do you know so much? i wish to learn more but don't know where to go

 

[Loren42]

Is there a way I can coax more mids from my Jamo 450's?
They have excellent highs and lows but I don't hear enough rhythm guitar or actual bass "notes". Maybe I'm wanting more midbass? The bass seems good but not detailed.
Got any advice? Would bi-wiring do anything? I read that is a waste of time and cable. How about better wire? My cable is 14AWG from Monoprice.
What about bi-amping? I really don't want to do that as I will lose my surround system but might that help?

Bi-amping will not help, unless you pad down the tweeter and split the bi-amp so that the woofers are on one pair of amps and the mids and tweeters are on the other. Then you have some control over absolute levels of the drivers.

However, if you are in for a penny, might as well be in for a pound and tri-amp.

However, the biggest advantage with tri-amping is not so much as being able to control the volume of each driver, but the vast improvement in lower phase distortion, lower intermodulation distortion, and higher damping factor by tossing those passive crossovers.

You need more amps, but you also need an electronic crossover. Electronic crossovers are (most are) phase coherent and some have the ability to add time delays so you can fine tune the phase of each driver so they are all coherent as a team.

The best passive crossover in the world can't match a cheap electronic crossover when it comes to sound reproduction.

 

[John Bailey]

Thanks for a quick response guys.
I am running the mains with no sub and my receiver set to full range. I have an Onkyo 805.
I am running my Jamo 450's against old B&W 220's. I am not hearing things on the Jamo's that I hear on the B&W's. The mids seem to be week on the Jamo's. Nothing seems separated. I can barely hear the rhythm guitar, female vocals don't sound as clear, and the bass sounds lower on the Jamo's but not as detailed.
These are right next to each other so I don't think treatments will solve my problem.
Am I wrong, or?
Help me pleeeese!

I don't have any experience with the Jamo's, but the sound you seem to be going for matches the B&W sound. It could be that you need to be looking at different speakers. In addition to B&W's you might try some Monitor Audio if you listen to mostly classical and PSB's if more rock. They all do well in the "separation and detail" department in each range of speaker.

John

 

[highfigh]

Is there a way I can coax more mids from my Jamo 450's?
They have excellent highs and lows but I don't hear enough rhythm guitar or actual bass "notes". Maybe I'm wanting more midbass? The bass seems good but not detailed.
Got any advice? Would bi-wiring do anything? I read that is a waste of time and cable. How about better wire? My cable is 14AWG from Monoprice.
What about bi-amping? I really don't want to do that as I will lose my surround system but might that help?

Those speakers should be fine in the whole range but if you don't hear the mids, it may be a problem with the crossovers. These weren't new, were they? If not, there's no telling what they were exposed to. Jamo speakers should have absolutely no problem making the guitars sound very real and I have never heard one of their speakers not produce good mids.

Your cables have nothing to do with the way your speakers sound.

 

[bandphan]

what sub are you using? Addind a second sub or a unit like the MBM from hsU and EQing might give you the slam need to pick up those bass notes,,

 

[jostenmeat]

how do you know so much? i wish to learn more but don't know where to go

Um, I don't really. Just some basics. Ok, I guess I have picked up a lot, and 99.9% of it is from forums. After you waste an untold number of hours staring at a computer screen, thinking countless times that your head is about to explode, you start noticing who knows a thing or two. After that, just pay attention.

A couple of books that are often recommended include Floyd Toole's Sound Reproduction and Everest's Master Handbook of Acoustics

There are also a number of websites with good information of acoustics. The first one I think of is Real Traps. Their products are expensive, but the advice is free.

I find forums are cool, because I get to ask someone, um, "in person", which is always fun. Savant is one of the regular gurus who hangs out in the Acoustics subforum here.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10

I think the AVS Audio Theory subforum is a good one too.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=91

YMMV.