Mixing large-ish in-wall speaker woofers with multiple subwoofers?

[Erod]

I'm considering replacing my front LCR in-wall speakers in my dedicated room with two new in-wall L/R speakers and a standalone matching center channel under my screen. (All of the same brand and driver types.)

The room is almost 3,300 cubic feet. Roughly 14x19x13 in an enclosed rectangular room.

Two speakers I'm looking at are the new RBH SI-831/R speakers that are about to be released, as well as the Triad golds. But my question isn't about speaker brand.

I have two SVS PC-12 subs in the room. Are those those speakers options overkill with the large 8-inch woofers? In fact, the new RBH speaker has 3 of them. Will they be hard to integrate with my subs? Or, am I better off to step down to the next version that has 6.5-inch woofers in their mix and let my subs handle everything on the low end entirely?

I want great sound, but I don't want to spend on what I won't hear.

Thanks in advance.

 

[shadyJ]

The in-wall speakers won't have any problems blending in with the subs, so long as you take the time in ensure that the system is properly calibrated. Those speakers won't be any more of a challenge to dial-in with a sub more than any other speaker.

 

[Erod]

So just

The in-wall speakers won't have any problems blending in with the subs, so long as you take the time in ensure that the system is properly calibrated. Those speakers won't be any more of a challenge to dial-in with a sub more than any other speaker.

So just run my anthem room correction and let it set the crossovers, etc?

 

[shadyJ]

So just

So just run my anthem room correction and let it set the crossovers, etc?

That should do the trick. Manual EQ'ing can do better than Anthem, but it takes a lot more investment of money and time.

 

[Erod]

That should do the trick. Manual EQ'ing can do better than Anthem, but it takes a lot more investment of money and time.

James, I'd very much value your and/or Gene's opinion on this. I'm torn between a couple of options with RBH, which I know you know well. I've read your review on the bookshelves, and I know Gene has a lot of experience and affinity for this brand.

Quick reference: dedicated theater room, 14x19x13 room, stair-stepped seating, in wall speakers all the way around with 10-year old Jamo 626k4 speakers. Perform well and were about $800 each in 2007. I attached pics of my room if it helps.

First off, I intend to replace my poorly placed center channel with a standalone just under the screen.

Two main concerns: (1) my sidewall distance from the wall and how it would change with these RBH inwall cabinet dimensions and my studs, and (2) the need/benefits of woofer size for a 3,000 cubic foot room.

(1) The L/R speakers are my concern, although perhaps unnecessarily. They're already very close to the side walls because of the wall studs and wood trimming around the screen. The RBH speakers have a wider cabinet, which would move he drivers probably another 1-2 inches closer to the wall. I know Toole says side reflections are just fine, but is that true with these drivers only 8-10 inches from the wall? My current SQ is actually quite good, but my tweeters are aimable. These RBHs would not be, but have good sound dispersion characteristics apparently.

(2) The brand new RBH SI-831R in-walls (not yet released, but on the website) have three 8-inch woofers each and a different AMT than the SI-760/R speakers, which closely resemble the bookshelves you reviewed. Each model has a matching center channel. I'm interested in the best sound quality, but I don't know that the larger woofers capability would be realized in SQ in a 3,000 square foot room. In fact, don't larger woofers have a somewhat negative impact on center channel SQ? I suspect the SQ will be the same, but I'd just play the larger speakers at a lower output to achieve the same dB.

Your thoughts and time are much appreciated.

 

[shadyJ]

James, I'd very much value your and/or Gene's opinion on this. I'm torn between a couple of options with RBH, which I know you know well. I've read your review on the bookshelves, and I know Gene has a lot of experience and affinity for this brand.

Quick reference: dedicated theater room, 14x19x13 room, stair-stepped seating, in wall speakers all the way around with 10-year old Jamo 626k4 speakers. Perform well and were about $800 each in 2007. I attached pics of my room if it helps.

First off, I intend to replace my poorly placed center channel with a standalone just under the screen.

Two main concerns: (1) my sidewall distance from the wall and how it would change with these RBH inwall cabinet dimensions and my studs, and (2) the need/benefits of woofer size for a 3,000 cubic foot room.

(1) The L/R speakers are my concern, although perhaps unnecessarily. They're already very close to the side walls because of the wall studs and wood trimming around the screen. The RBH speakers have a wider cabinet, which would move he drivers probably another 1-2 inches closer to the wall. I know Toole says side reflections are just fine, but is that true with these drivers only 8-10 inches from the wall? My current SQ is actually quite good, but my tweeters are aimable. These RBHs would not be, but have good sound dispersion characteristics apparently.

(2) The brand new RBH SI-831R in-walls (not yet released, but on the website) have three 8-inch woofers each and a different AMT than the SI-760/R speakers, which closely resemble the bookshelves you reviewed. Each model has a matching center channel. I'm interested in the best sound quality, but I don't know that the larger woofers capability would be realized in SQ in a 3,000 square foot room. In fact, don't larger woofers have a somewhat negative impact on center channel SQ? I suspect the SQ will be the same, but I'd just play the larger speakers at a lower output to achieve the same dB.

Your thoughts and time are much appreciated.

Concerning your first point, it looks to me like the speakers will be so close to the sidewall that diffraction effects could become very significant. I would find a way to move the speakers away from the sidewalls. When Floyd talks about sidewall reflections, he isn't talking about such early reflections that it could cause diffraction. Its good that you have absorbers next to the speakers on the sidewalls, that looks like an acoustic treatment that would actually help (unlike many other random acoustic treatments that I have seen). You may actually want to expand on that treatment.

Regarding your second point, the larger woofers should give you more headroom. if you don't listen at loud volumes, that doesn't do you any good. How loud do you intend to listen? If THX Reference level loudness, than maybe the larger woofers are worth the investment. If not, you could step down to smaller speakers without losing anything.

By the way, you mean 3,000 cubic foot room, not square foot, right?

 

[Erod]

Concerning your first point, it looks to me like the speakers will be so close to the sidewall that diffraction effects could become very significant. I would find a way to move the speakers away from the sidewalls. When Floyd talks about sidewall reflections, he isn't talking about such early reflections that it could cause diffraction. Its good that you have absorbers next to the speakers on the sidewalls, that looks like an acoustic treatment that would actually help (unlike many other random acoustic treatments that I have seen). You may actually want to expand on that treatment.

Regarding your second point, the larger woofers should give you more headroom. if you don't listen at loud volumes, that doesn't do you any good. How loud do you intend to listen? If THX Reference level loudness, than maybe the larger woofers are worth the investment. If not, you could step down to smaller speakers without losing anything.

By the way, you mean 3,000 cubic foot room, not square foot, right?

Thanks, James, and yes, a 3000 cubic foot room.

How hard is it to alter a wall stud situation so that I can tuck those side speakers closer to the screen?

 

[shadyJ]

Thanks, James, and yes, a 3000 cubic foot room.

How hard is it to alter a wall stud situation so that I can tuck those side speakers closer to the screen?

I don't know the answer, but I don't think you need to resort to that radical of a solution. Can you just do stand mounted bookshelf speakers in there? Why the need to do in-walls?

 

[Erod]

I don't know the answer, but I don't think you need to resort to that radical of a solution. Can you just do stand mounted bookshelf speakers in there? Why the need to do in-walls?

The surround inwalls are installed at that height, and I thought it was better to have the sound coming from near the center height of the screen. (I don't use AT screen because i love my Srewart ST130 brightness). Do you think that would alter the mix of the bed layer?

 

[shadyJ]

The surround inwalls are installed at that height, and I thought it was better to have the sound coming from near the center height of the screen. (I don't use AT screen because i love my Srewart ST130 brightness). Do you think that would alter the mix of the bed layer?

The front left and right speakers should be installed so that the tweeter is at ear height, or the speaker should be aimed at the listening position ears. It wouldn't make that much of a difference if the speakers are aligned with the screen too much, and it can hurt sound quality if you are listening at too far of a vertical off-axis angle. If any speaker should be at center height, it should be the center speaker, but if it's close, it's not a big deal. you could lower the front left and rights and it won't hurt anything, for front row listening at least.

 

[Erod]

The front left and right speakers should be installed so that the tweeter is at ear height, or the speaker should be aimed at the listening position ears. It wouldn't make that much of a difference if the speakers are aligned with the screen too much, and it can hurt sound quality if you are listening at too far of a vertical off-axis angle. If any speaker should be at center height, it should be the center speaker, but if it's close, it's not a big deal. you could lower the front left and rights and it won't hurt anything, for front row listening at least.

James, I re-read your review of the SV-61R. You mentioned how the dispersion of this AMT tweeter was relatively wide. Would that suggest that it might be best not to toe these L/R speakers in much (or not at all) to provide a wider front stage? (I have a 7.2.4 setup.)

I think I'm going to go the bookshelf route instead of replacing my in-walls with more in-walls.

 

[shadyJ]

James, I re-read your review of the SV-61R. You mentioned how the dispersion of this AMT tweeter was relatively wide. Would that suggest that it might be best not to toe these L/R speakers in much (or not at all) to provide a wider front stage? (I have a 7.2.4 setup.)

I think I'm going to go the bookshelf route instead of replacing my in-walls with more in-walls.

I would say that you should experiment with toe-in to see what you like best. The width of the front stage might not change as much as you would think. Also experiment with stand-off distances from walls, if you are able. The SV-61Rs are very good speakers, I think you will enjoy them.

 

[Erod]

I would say that you should experiment with toe-in to see what you like best. The width of the front stage might not change as much as you would think. Also experiment with stand-off distances from walls, if you are able. The SV-61Rs are very good speakers, I think you will enjoy them.

Thanks, James. I'm actually looking at the SV-661Rs (with the 661CR center), but I believe all your findings would still apply.