Mission Impossible? The room even Best Buy wouldn't touch.

[Drako]

So, my sister called me up yesterday with a bit of a problem. It seems that she and her husband decided to finally toss their 15 year old projection TV and trade it in for a 50" Panny plasma and enough gear to add a "home theater" to their living room. Problem is, when the Best Buy installer came out to hook everything up, he informed them that putting a theater in would be impossible, and recommended that they return the receiver and speakers (I recommended the same thing, but for different reasons). Since I have a very nice HT in my home (thankfully, in a rectangular room), they annointed me their "expert" and asked me to save the day. I've attached a floorplan to this post, but it basically boils down to this...their original architect got very creative with the design, and their living room is now at one end of a nearly 20'x42' room with no less than 12 different walls of differing length. The room also has a number of fixed features including two sets of french doors, a brick fireplace, and windows. And, of course, it has a large hardwood floor. And, just to add one last complication, the ceiling is vaulted...9' at the left and right edges of the room, and 14' at the peak (dead center of the room on the short axis).

The attached image shows the current layout of the room, including dimensions, furniture, and the TV's location. They really want to put the new TV in the same place as the old one, but I don't see how they can get any kind of channel separation with that layout. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make this work? How about alternate room arrangements? I've already told them that their dream of having THX quality surround sound is never going to happen in that room, so at this point I'm simply looking for some way to salvage some of their original idea and develop some sort of passable channel separation and rear channel definition.

Or should I just go the route of the Best Buy installer and tell them it's not possible?

Floorplan Layout Image

 

[Johnd]

Yeah.

1. Arrange the prime listening area behind the kitchen table.
2. Cover the doors with blackout scrim and heavy fabric (reflections).
3. Position the screen and front speakers on the wall with the doors. and,
4. Treat the room acoustically as necessary.

Throwing everything into a "home theater" including the kitchen sink makes it not a theater, but a rec room, which may have to suffice if they stick to the original plan. Good luck, and have fun.

And hey, welcome to the forum Drako.

 

[jake5717]

Mount the TV over the fireplace maybe?

 

[darien87]

I would move the TV to the 42' wall and move the loveseat that's there now to in front of the fireplace. I'd use the place where the TV is now as a spot for all the A/V gear.

 

[no. 5]

Oh, anything is possible, it depends on how much they want to change.

I can think of two options that will allow the room to be mostly unchanged; put the TV over the fireplace with 'plasma friendly' speakers for the front, and Axiom QS4's (or something similar) for the surrounds on the 42' wall.

Personally, what I would do is move the love seat that is opposite the two chairs to where the chairs are, and get rid of the chairs, thus allowing the TV to be put where the love seat was, that will allow good quality, and well placed front speakers, the rest of the gear could go either with the TV, or they could get a really good looking table to put the TV on, and place the gear next to the fireplace, and there would be any number of options for surround placement. The fireplace can still be used, and, they could even go with two nearfield subs.

 

[mike c]

my best suggestion:

the screen should be put where the bookshelf is.
the seats aligned with the screen; essentially flipping with the dining table.

 

[Drako]

Mount the TV over the fireplace maybe?

Mounting the TV over the fireplace might work, but I'm a bit concerned about height. The fireplace has a mantle that extends 5' above the floor. Given a 6" spacing between the two, that puts the bottom of the screen 5.5' up, and the top of the screen 8.5 feet off the floor. I considered that too high for comfortable viewing.

 

[jake5717]

Trade the love seat for recliners.

 

[Drako]

Oh, anything is possible, it depends on how much they want to change.

Heh, that's half the problem. They really don't want to change AT ALL. They like their current layout and want me to somehow cram surround sound into the room without impacting anything else. I can't even figure out how to do a lousy surround installation with their current layout, much less a decent one.

I can think of two options that will allow the room to be mostly unchanged; put the TV over the fireplace with 'plasma friendly' speakers for the front, and Axiom QS4's (or something similar) for the surrounds on the 42' wall.

What exactly is a plasma friendly speaker? My intention was to disable the onboard speakers entirely and move to an entirely receiver driven autdio solution. While I'm not a pro, I didn't think the display type had any impact on the speaker selection (position yes, selection no).

Personally, what I would do is move the love seat that is opposite the two chairs to where the chairs are, and get rid of the chairs, thus allowing the TV to be put where the love seat was, that will allow good quality, and well placed front speakers, the rest of the gear could go either with the TV, or they could get a really good looking table to put the TV on, and place the gear next to the fireplace, and there would be any number of options for surround placement. The fireplace can still be used, and, they could even go with two nearfield subs.

Hmm, I like that solution, since it also negates the concern about the side-sloping ceiling. I suspect they'll be resistant to losing seating, but that may be the best solution for the space. Of course, I'll have to work out how to get power and A/V connectivity to a spot that is essentially in the middle of the room (slab on grade construction, so no crawlspace under the floor). Thanks for the idea!

I'm still curious, though, as to whether or not anyone thinks that any kind of halfway reasonable surround could be established with the current floorplan. I don't think so, but my experience is pretty much limited to my own HT, and my layout is far more conventional.

 

[Johnd]

I'm still curious, though, as to whether or not anyone thinks that any kind of halfway reasonable surround could be established with the current floorplan.

I can't get around the television squarely set in the corner with offset viewing.

 

[Drako]

Throwing everything into a "home theater" including the kitchen sink makes it not a theater, but a rec room, which may have to suffice if they stick to the original plan. Good luck, and have fun.

Ah, but the salesman at Best Buy told them that ANY room can be a home theater "with the right TV and speakers". I don't know what the general opinion of BB is around here, but I don't hold them in high regard. In my experience, they'll tell people anything to get a sale, their installations are shoddy, and they'll sell you all kinds of overpriced junk that you don't need or can get better elsewhere (they originally bought all Bose speakers...I made them take them back).

And hey, welcome to the forum Drako.

Thanks! I found the site after searching the web for a good A/V discussion forum, and most of the posts I saw here looked pretty knowledgable and professional. This particular question brought me here, but it looks like a good place to post some of my other A/V questions and issues that have gone unanswered for a while.

 

[Drako]

I can't get around the television squarely set in the corner with offset viewing.

Oh, that's just my drawing. I tossed that together in about 5 minutes using SketchUp, but I haven't figured out how to rotate shapes yet. The actual TV is rotated towards the seating area for easier viewing. Of course, it's still unwatchable if you're in one of the chairs!

 

[Johnd]

Ah, but the salesman at Best Buy told them that ANY room can be a home theater "with the right TV and speakers".

Don't get me started on the definition of a true "home theater". That's a rather simple one for me, and it is likely to offend many. It's not just BB...it's just that most everyone thinks that one can simply stuff everything, including the kitchen sink, into the home theater, and it still remains a theater. When was the last time you went to the big screen and saw a kitchen sink (or a kitchen table)?

 

[no. 5]

What exactly is a plasma friendly speaker?

A speaker that looks good mounted on a wall next to a flat panel display (like this, this, or this), they tend to require a higher crossover due to their small cabinet size, and they often (but not always) don't sound terribly good, because the design focus is usually on small size and good looks.

 

[dorokusai]

I think a couple great points were hit earlier so forgive me for repeating them. I don't think its that difficult beings there are products to address almost every situation these days.

New TV on wall between the door w/ sidelights and window. Directly across from the fireplace.

Rotate the couches to the left and right of the new area.

Move the chairs to the rear in front of the fireplace. You can still see the fireplace and spin the chairs around to get warm.

The fireplace is a terrible place to mount a TV, IMO. Too high, heat and its distracting.

Blackout fabric and/or a combination of some HT blinds for the side windows. They will be your worst reflection offenders for glare.

Use the existing, previous TV nook as the new equipment shelf. Frame it out and use all that space to arrange new and future equipment.

The front stage for speakers is pretty easy and straightforward. Without actually seeing the room with my eyes, you'll have to be creative with speaker placement for the rear and back channels. Speaker brackets will be your new friend.

That's just off the top of my head. There are great suggestions in here from the crew so I would say its certainly possible. Best Buy couldn't design an audio system based around a toilet, let alone a real room. They did you a favor.

If all else fails, seek out a local professional installer from an audio shop. You can also check out www.resmagonline.com for more information on custom installs and contact information.

Regards,
Mark
Polk Audio CS

 

[mtrycrafts]

Well, if they want it in the present position, place it there but pull it out slightly. In this room, you probably would use casual HT setup, nothing fancy, like a speaker package from Hsu or SVS. The speakers are small enough to place one on top of the TV, or under it and one on each side close. The surround would be one in the bookshelf angled towards the seating area and the other opposite it on the wall where the glass door is about where that wall hugging love seat is, aimed downward.
I bet they would like it well enough. Just don't invite them to your place too much or their expectation would increase beyond what that room can support.

 

[dorokusai]

At 7.1 they should have enough rear fill to not miss much at all using small bookshelf style speakers.

Mark

 

[AndrewLyles]

I don't think that I saw anyone recommend this yet but have you considered a front screen projector? I was thinking that you could have it wall mounted over the fireplace and have it drop down in front. There seems to be plenty of space between the back wall and the front for throw so it would be okay. I would get one of the newer style screens that allows you to watch in a less light controlled invironment. (I'm assuming they have either curtains or blinds.) That takes care of the video.

I would say for sound you could do some in ceiling numbers that would work well...you could have them pivot into the varying pitch of the vaulted cieling and still aimed and distanced properly. It may be something worth considering. You can get some very good projectors for as much as a plasma these days, and then you just have to deal with the screen.

All this would leave the cut out behind the current TV position for a small set of shelves or an equipment rack to keep the room neat and everything off the floor.

Best of luck!

 

[Davemcc]

Wow, I looked at the picture before I read anybody else's replies and I was going a whole different way with this.

Place the TV on a stand where the two chairs are. If I'm reading the measurements correctly, the loveseat facing is 13 feet from that wall and should be a good viewing distance. Leave the loveseat at the bottom of the picture where it is. Place one chair by the fireplace angled towards the TV with a reading lamp that makes it cozy for reading or viewing. Lose the other chair (or not, put both chairs in front of the fireplace if you have to).

Your three mains go in their normal place by the display. One surround on the wall by door w/sidelights. One surround at the corner of the hall and bookshelf.

The current TV cubbyhole beside the fireplace is more suitable for a large urn.