K

KenithO

Enthusiast
As mentioned in my previous post "State of Art 4K Blu-ray DVD Players?" https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/state-of-art-4k-blu-ray-dvd-players.112518/ I am trying to do my homework concerning 4K.

Originally thought I would find a number of 4K review articles but to date have found none so if you know of any I would be interested.

I found "Movie Talk - are 4K movies worth it?" by Niki Topgaard
in my last search.

Was surprised by his findings but after thinking about it for a while have to agree with him.

Did a quick search to check if anyone posted something similar but found nothing.

Appreciate any comments concerning either this video or the subject of 4K movies.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Based on your previous thread and this one, you need to be a bit more flexible in how you search. If your first shot doesn't yield what you're looking for, you probably need to tweak it some.

http://www.blu-ray.com/4k/
 
Bookmark

Bookmark

Full Audioholic
Separate two different things. 4K and High Dynamic Range, ie HDR10, Dolby Vision and HLG. Two newer ones looking to join in, are HDR10+ and just announced IMAX mode.

For you to see a discernible improvement over 1080p you need to be within approx 1.5-2 times the distance of the Diagonal. So for a 60", 5 foot screen you need to around 90", 7.5 feet. 120", 10 feet away. Most people have the TV further away than this, probably tucked in a corner, so unless you like sitting closer, 4K will not achieve much for you. The same rules apply for projectors.

High Dynamic Range on the other hand is easily visible at normal viewing distances. There is no requirement that HDR has to be restricted to 4K, however this is the Norm, so one will usually be accompanied by the other. "Good" HDR requires over 1000 nit peak brightness range, actually closer to 4000. Most Oleds are around 400. Doesn't not mean it will not work or that 400 nits of pure white is not totally annoying in darkened room. Try watching Mindhunters on Netflix and have you retinas burned with each new city. :eek: 400 is good enough for most people with controlled lighting, 500-600 is now more common in the latest Oleds. Samsung and other LED manufacturers usually get around 1000 or more which makes it more suitable for normal living room conditions.

Best picture currently, if the ambient light can be controlled, is an OLed. Oleds will however struggle in bright rooms. Try not to waste the beauty on Game Consoles. Burn in, like Plasma, can occur but you really need to work at. Two year on and hundreds if not thousands of hours, my Oled has never had this problem.

Best for normal living rooms is something like Samsung's QLed or other similar Led technologies. Local zone dimming helps improve the blacks for Leds, higher number of zones are better than lower. You can still get a degree halo issues with local zone dimming, however this less noticeable in brighter rooms.

For me UHD discs are currently overpriced. I will take a good bluray over these any day and a lot of the time Dvds are fine to. To show off your 4k Tv there are a good number of shows on Netflix and Amazon, other services are available. Some are just 4K, others come with Dolby Vision or HDR 10. Samsung TVs do not I think support Dolby Vision since they do not wish to pay the license fees, but others do. HLG (Hybrid Log Gamma) is largely the preserve of Over The Air Broadcasters. The BBC in the UK is trialing this.

8K will be worse for viewing distances, probably nearer 1 to 1 and it is at least 4 to 5 years away. Hdmi 2.1 whilst it will support 8K, is more about higher refresh rates for 4K gamers currently. eARC will be a nice addition once all the gear is in place.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I think the point this reviewer made was primarily is it worth it to you? Personally have not gone to a 4k set as I'm quite happy with the pq of my 1080p plasma and the issues of LCD/OLED etc still seem to need some work (as well as the prices to come down). If/when the plasma set has issues I'll consider what's available. I have no ability to stream 4k either, shitty internet service where I live so it will all be about the discs (and I did buy the Oppo 203 so I'll be ready in that regard).
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
I like the Sony players. I have the x800 in my man cave. It lacks Dolby Vision but so does my TV. :)
 
K

KenithO

Enthusiast
j_garcia,

"...you need to be a bit more flexible in how you search..." Agree!!! Any suggestions as to what Key Words you would use?
 
K

KenithO

Enthusiast
Bookmark,

Thanks for the tips and comments!!!

Googled using HDR10+ "IMAX mode" got ~ 40 results removed "..." got ~8.2K results

Can you recommend any review articles that give and overview of these various options?

Question: What about "Dolby Atmos"?

Checked Dolby website and found "New Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos Movies on Blu-ray Disc" https://www.dolby.com/us/en/home/index.html
 
K

KenithO

Enthusiast
lovinthehd,

"...I think the point this reviewer made was primarily is it worth it to you..." Agree, that was also my understanding. Was not impressed with Fake 4K comparisons.

" I did buy the Oppo 203..." DL the manual http://download.oppodigital.com/UDP203/UDP-203_USER_MANUAL_ENGLISH_V1.0.pdf

Questions:
1 Do you use its Frame by Frame feature? How like it?

2. Can it play scratched/damaged CDs better than your normal CD player?

3. Have you used Playback from a USB Flash Drive?

4. Have you done any "Color Depth" tests? Am especially interested in 8-bit, 10-bit, 12-bit tests but am wondering if your "1080p plasma" TV even supports the later 2? Do you know of any reviews that have done this testing?

Thanks again for your help

Ken
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
snakeeyes,

"I like the Sony players" OK, Why? Please Elaborate
I get a great picture and nice upscaling from blu-ray to UHD. It’s a bit better than letting my 2016 Samsung 65in KS8000 do the upscaling. (I tried both). My tv only supports HDR10. This player lacks Dolby Vision but so does my tv. Netflix looks and sounds great thru this Sony. I have the Yamaha RXA2060 receiver. So all three devices are HDMI 2.0a. I have the default Yamaha lip sync of 40ms or maybe just a tick up from that. Also my Apple TV 4K device is hdmi 2.0a as well. (I use Direct TV Now app for TV sports etc thru the Apple. Gotta have NFL and NHL. :) ). One of the nice things with the Sony is it supports SACD and DVD-A 5.1 music discs which are fun to find used on Amazon and other sites. Also I find some music discs on Blu-ray Audio format. The x800 is well built and solid. The remote is a little lame and cheap since no backlight but you could get a separate remote if you wanted.
The x700 is 1 year newer than the x800 and lacks DVD-A and is smaller and all plastic but that one supports Dolby Vision if you need that. It is otherwise the same. Good luck! :)

Oh and next time I get a tv it will be probably 75 or 80 inch. 65 was a big difference for me coming from a 54 plasma though. :)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
lovinthehd,

"...I think the point this reviewer made was primarily is it worth it to you..." Agree, that was also my understanding. Was not impressed with Fake 4K comparisons.

" I did buy the Oppo 203..." DL the manual http://download.oppodigital.com/UDP203/UDP-203_USER_MANUAL_ENGLISH_V1.0.pdf

Questions:
1 Do you use its Frame by Frame feature? How like it?

2. Can it play scratched/damaged CDs better than your normal CD player?

3. Have you used Playback from a USB Flash Drive?

4. Have you done any "Color Depth" tests? Am especially interested in 8-bit, 10-bit, 12-bit tests but am wondering if your "1080p plasma" TV even supports the later 2? Do you know of any reviews that have done this testing?

Thanks again for your help

Ken
FWIW you might find it easier to use the quote button and then just eliminate the parts you don't want....

I have the manual both paper and download (always download the manual when I buy gear)...what am I looking for?

1. No, haven't.

2. I really don't play cds much, I use my ripped files mostly and the ones that were too damaged to rip got tossed a while back. I keep my discs in good shape and buy well taken care of used discs (so far). I don't really have a normal "cd" player for years....been using other bluray players (I have a couple Sony S5100s and an S6700) and dvd players before that....

3. Yes, keep one loaded in a slot full time

4. No and couldn't tell you but while my PN59D8000 has a full color management system but offhand I have no idea what the bit depth spec is, there's no mention of depth at all in the manual but a brief search says Samsung doesn't spec it and seems usually for a 1080p set 8bit is the norm....

FWIW the Sony bluray players I have are also quite good, I discern no difference in picture or audio qualities in using the Oppo (all used via hdmi).
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Video wise, you won't notice any difference with most blu-ray players until you watch a DVD. Upconversion of DVD to 1080 has always been excellent on the Oppos, if that matters like if you have a big DVD collection.

Audio wise, you will notice the difference with the top Oppo models only in analog. The 203 will likely be similar to most mid to top range mass market players IMO in terms of audio.
 
K

KenithO

Enthusiast
snakeeyes,

Thanks for your detailed comments!

Shows that you really need to do your homework!

With all the technology changes seems that would help to know what is coming.

Do you know of any websites that cover the next generation...?

I usually check what is shown at CES Show in January https://www.ces.tech/ and recent IFA https://www.whathifi.com/news/ifa-2018-news-highlights but do not know the similar shows in Asia?

Any recommendations concerning shows in Korea, Japan, China...?
 
K

KenithO

Enthusiast
lovinthehd,

"FWIW you might find it easier to use the quote button and then just eliminate the parts you don't want...."

Sure, Please tell this beginner how!

I checked all the icons looking for the "quote button"

Thanks for alerting me that there is an easier way!!!

Also thanks for your detailed comments!!!
 
K

KenithO

Enthusiast
j_garcia,

"Upconversion of DVD to 1080 has always been excellent on the Oppos" Thanks for the tip!

Is there a website that tests this?

Googled using keywords Upconversion of DVD to 1080 tests (~106,000 results (0.38 seconds) No "...")

To date best found "What is upconverting?" https://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-upconverting/ Could notice a significant difference in screen example "...upconversion done in most Blu-ray players is excellent, often better than what's done in a television. Playing a DVD, all of which are SD, on a Blu-ray player is a best-case scenario for watching SD on an HDTV"
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
j_garcia,

"Upconversion of DVD to 1080 has always been excellent on the Oppos" Thanks for the tip!

Is there a website that tests this?

Googled using keywords Upconversion of DVD to 1080 tests (~106,000 results (0.38 seconds) No "...")

To date best found "What is upconverting?" https://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-upconverting/ Could notice a significant difference in screen example "...upconversion done in most Blu-ray players is excellent, often better than what's done in a television. Playing a DVD, all of which are SD, on a Blu-ray player is a best-case scenario for watching SD on an HDTV"
BD has sort of displaced DVD for the most part, but lots of people still have DVDs because there are still a lot of titles that are on DVD only. I would say most players do a good enough job at DVD upconversion these days that it is less of a factor and the sites that tracked this are likely archived or old. Oppo basically made their name on the ability to do this though. Their early models were inexpensive and did it better than anyone else.

FYI, there is no quote button. You either tag it as quote using the drop downs when posting or use the REPLY button on the lower right of the thread you want to quote.
 
K

KenithO

Enthusiast
j_garcia,

Thanks for the clarification!

"FYI, there is no quote button. You either tag it as quote using the drop downs when posting or use the REPLY button on the lower right of the thread you want to quote."

Thanks again! tried using reply button so much easier!!
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
BD has sort of displaced DVD for the most part, but lots of people still have DVDs because there are still a lot of titles that are on DVD only. I would say most players do a good enough job at DVD upconversion these days that it is less of a factor and the sites that tracked this are likely archived or old. Oppo basically made their name on the ability to do this though. Their early models were inexpensive and did it better than anyone else.

FYI, there is no quote button. You either tag it as quote using the drop downs when posting or use the REPLY button on the lower right of the thread you want to quote.
Agreed. If you want dvd to 2160p then oppo is the way to go probably
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
lovinthehd,

"FWIW you might find it easier to use the quote button and then just eliminate the parts you don't want...."

Sure, Please tell this beginner how!

I checked all the icons looking for the "quote button"

Thanks for alerting me that there is an easier way!!!

Also thanks for your detailed comments!!!
Sorry, I think I'm still used to the previous software version where I'm pretty sure it was a button labeled as quote; it is (now) labeled "reply" which turns that particular post into a quote (and you can use the reply to several different posts all in one answer and edit within the quote brackets easily). This is using a pc with the basic site. It is different using Tapatalk on a mobile device and I haven't figured out how to edit the quote on my phone (altho there could be a way, I've just done most of my posting via my pc and haven't really tried). How do you access Audioholics?

You're welcome in any case....
 
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