Midbass: Axiom M2 vs. AV123 ELT525M

[neckthrough]

I've been using an AV123 x-series (classic) based setup in my living room for a couple of years, so I know what they sound like.

I'm planning to set up a small 2.1 system for my bedroom, and I thought I'd try a set of brighter speakers this time. I had narrowed my options down the AV123 ELT525M monitors and the Axiom M2. I know these speakers are quite dissimilar at the high frequencies, but lets ignore that for now.

My question was more about midrange and midbass. Has anybody heard both these models? Could you make any comparisons on the midrange/midbass reproduction of these two speakers?

I'm not concerned about sub-100Hz bass since I'll be crossing them over with a subwoofer.

Unfortunately I can't be more specific about exactly the kind of information I'm looking for because I haven't heard too many good quality speakers in my life. All I can hope for is to gather all your comments together and based on my single point of reference (my x-sls's), try to create a mental picture of which speakers I might end up liking more. I know both brands provide in-home auditioning but I'd like to avoid having to go through the trouble of shipping something back if I can get the right speakers in the first attempt.

Any other comments/suggestions are also welcome. Thanks in advance!

 

[j_garcia]

I have heard the M3 and the M2 and I felt that neither had good bass. Midrange was good on both of them, but on the previous versions I found it to be a touch colored - on the bright side (mids not highs). I haven't heard the EL525, but I have listened to the previous ELTs and they were very good; better than either of those Axioms in my book. Just IMO, I actually felt the previous ELTs were a bit better than the original X-LS in terms of midrange detail, though nowhere near the same bass capabilities. To me the X-LS sounded better when pushed really hard, while the ELTs sounded a bit more effortless at normal listening levels.

You DO need to be concerned about the capability of your speakers to at least 1 octave below the crossover point, as that can make a noticeable difference in how well that speaker blends with your sub.

IMO, if you are happy with the X-SLSs, then you will like the 525s.

 

[MinusTheBear]

The Axiom M3 would be more comparable price wise to the ELT525. Axiom includes shipping in it prices while AV123 does not.

 

[j_garcia]

I think in the price and size range you may also be interested in the Cambridge Audio S-30 and the Behringer 2030p.

 

[neckthrough]

You DO need to be concerned about the capability of your speakers to at least 1 octave below the crossover point, as that can make a noticeable difference in how well that speaker blends with your sub.

Hmm... any idea how well ELT's will blend with a sub if crossed over at 100Hz?

IMO, if you are happy with the X-SLSs, then you will like the 525s.

To be honest, I'm not terribly satisfied with my overall living room setup, but I think that has more to do with the absolutely horrible bass response of my 18'x16' room than the speakers themselves. My room seems to swallow up the 100Hz frequency band, and bass nodes are simply ugly.

Whenever the music playing doesn't excite these room symptoms, I do like the speakers quite a bit. Listening to them over long periods is quite pleasing. I can't come up with good adjectives to describe the sound, except maybe "lush".

They do sound a little "muddy" or "confused" on some pieces, esp. as the music gets more complex, e.g. on hard rock. Also, at times, mid/high bass guitar notes seem to ring or resonate a little. I also think I'd prefer a little more treble. I contemplated on overhauling my entire HT system but in the end junked the idea because it would be prohibitively expensive, deciding instead to spend some cash on a small and modest bedroom/PC system.

 

[fredk]

I have a pair of M2s that I use as a center channel. I have listened to them in two channel before and the midrange is very good. Acoustic guitar and voice sound quite natural to me.

If you look at the anechoic measurements on Axiom's site you will see that the M2 measures very flat from 70Hz to about 15KHz showing them to be a very neutral speaker.

 

[j_garcia]

Hmm... any idea how well ELT's will blend with a sub if crossed over at 100Hz?

To be honest, I'm not terribly satisfied with my overall living room setup, but I think that has more to do with the absolutely horrible bass response of my 18'x16' room than the speakers themselves. My room seems to swallow up the 100Hz frequency band, and bass nodes are simply ugly.

Whenever the music playing doesn't excite these room symptoms, I do like the speakers quite a bit. Listening to them over long periods is quite pleasing. I can't come up with good adjectives to describe the sound, except maybe "lush".

They do sound a little "muddy" or "confused" on some pieces, esp. as the music gets more complex, e.g. on hard rock. Also, at times, mid/high bass guitar notes seem to ring or resonate a little. I also think I'd prefer a little more treble. I contemplated on overhauling my entire HT system but in the end junked the idea because it would be prohibitively expensive, deciding instead to spend some cash on a small and modest bedroom/PC system.

Some room treatments would likely help in the livingroom. Bass traps in the corners at the very least. Sub placement can have a big effect as well. I know where you are coming from though, because my former room was 19x20 and I sat nearly in the middle, so there was a big dip just above my 80Hz x-over. I am sure the 525s will blend just fine with a 100Hz x-over, as they have a -3dB of 60Hz.

I have a pair of M2s that I use as a center channel. I have listened to them in two channel before and the midrange is very good. Acoustic guitar and voice sound quite natural to me.

If you look at the anechoic measurements on Axiom's site you will see that the M2 measures very flat from 70Hz to about 15KHz showing them to be a very neutral speaker.

You can have a speaker with flat response that is still bright or warm, so flat response doesn't necessarily guarantee neutral or natural sound. That is not to say the M2s aren't good. Most speakers that use aluminum drivers tend toward a brighter sound. At first that sounds very detailed because it does have a "plucky" sound to it that sounds particularly good with string instruments and brass, but I find that vocals can suffer a bit at the same time unless they are implemented properly. My Mordaunt Short 902s exhibited this trait, though they are slightly warmer than the Axioms.

Also, I haven't seen them in the new finishes, but the pair of M3s that I had, the veneer was very poorly done. The cabinet construction was solid, though a bit light compared to what I expected.

 

[rnatalli]

I've heard the X-LS Classic, ELT525, and Axiom M2 v2. I feel the ELT's are the most balanced overall. The Axioms have excellent midrange, but it feels recessed in comparison to the ELT's. Probably due to their brighter nature. Also, the ELT525's also sport a real wood veneer vs. vinyl on the Axioms. The equivalent Axioms would cost about $450/pair. Both are excellent speakers, but I feel the ELT's offer more value. You could also look at Aperions which also have real wood veneer and a brighter sound than the X-LS.

 

[neckthrough]

Thanks for your inputs, everyone. I ordered a pair of ELT525Ms along with a Gizmo amp.

 

[fredk]

You can have a speaker with flat response that is still bright or warm, so flat response doesn't necessarily guarantee neutral or natural sound.

A flat response means that when a sweep is played at 85db, that is exactly what the speaker puts out. As soon as the speakers output varies from the playback level, it starts to color the sound. How audible that coloration is depends on how much the speakers response deviates from flat and how sensitive our hearing is at the frequencies where the speaker deviates.

A warm sound is created by an elevated midrange and brightness is attributed to an elevated hign end.

 

[alphaiii]

Hmm... any idea how well ELT's will blend with a sub if crossed over at 100Hz?

I've spent some time with the ELT525M hooked up to a TCA Gizmo (digital integrated amp with built in 100Hz crossover), and an Aperion S8-APR sub.

I think the system blended very well.

Also, prior to getting the ELT525T's, I had the 525M's in a 3.1 living room setup, again crossed at 100Hz, and I was very happy with the sound of that system.

For what it's worth, I moved from the X-LS to the ELT, and even being a smaller less efficient bookshelf, the ELT sounded better to me - more balanced sound and clearer. The X-LS were nice, but seemed to get a bit boomy at times with music (I listen to mostly metal hard rock) and some voices in movies.