Messed up ohm question to avoid frying tweeters

[Lowsidr]

Hi all,

Long story short, bought some mint Energy C-4 Connoisseurs. They have been playing beautifully till yesterday when one blew a woofer. An online search showed the speaker as 8ohm and I found 2 8ohm replacements from a Energy C-4 Connoisseur. Payed, it shipped, no returns. I pull mine, it's 4 ohm. A call to Klipsch say's using that 8ohm would make my speakers 12 ohm (assuming the tweeter is 4ohm. They say don't do it, it will cook the tweeters. Any thoughts or recommendations?

 

[j_garcia]

If it is 8 Ohm, it is the wrong driver and I wouldn't use it like they said. Get the info off the driver and order the correct one. The one you received either wasn't what was advertised or is not from the correct speaker.

8 Ohm may have referred to the WHOLE speaker, not the individual driver, so the search results were a bit misleading.

 

[Pogre]

I thought for sure @domic was starting another thread...

 

[lovinthehd]

Do you have links to what you purchased? As was mentioned there's a difference between the impedance of the system vs one driver in the system....seems you bought the drivers as OEM replacements, so I'd think they're the correct drivers.

 

[Lowsidr]

Sorry about the delay. Had to finish up at work. The purchased drivers were off Ebay pulled from a C-8...the c-4 was a typo, copied and pasted and forgot to change it to C-8. Below is the correct part number and beneath that the specs I pulled off the net of the c-4 and C-8. That's where I made the mistake, they both said 8ohm and looked to be the same minus frequency response figures which I assumed were due to crossover. The c-4 has one driver and a tweeter, the c-8 two drivers and a tweeter. From what I was told the c-8 8ohm when run parallel become 4ohm or something like that. I might be able to get a NOS from Klipsch but it will set me back about $115 and i'm out $70 already on the c-8 drivers. Just trying to find out if there are any alternatives, open to any suggestions. Thanks everyone for the feedback....




5DR61055 - WOOFER 4 OHM ALU. W8/86IRSR Part number for the woofer



Vented 2 way
Tweeter: 1 -25mm aluminum dome with cloth suspension
Woofer: . . 1 -20.3 cm injection molded alumminum/ polypropylene woofer with polypropylene diaphragm and rubber suspension.
Frequency Response (+/-3dB): 35Hz - 25kHz
Crossover Points: 1800Hz
Room Efficiency: 91dB
Impedence: 8 ohms nominal, 4.5 ohms minimum
Recommended Amp Power: 30 - 175 watts (RMS/CHNL)
Dimensions:
H x W x D 83.8 (33") x 24.4 (9 1/2") x 30.5 (12")


Weight: (ea.) 19.2 kgSystem Type: Vented, tapered 3 way
Tweeters: 1 - 25mm aluminum dome with cloth suspension
Woofers: 2 - 20.3 cm injection molded aluminum/ polypropylene woofers with polypropylene diaphragm and rubber suspension.
Frequency Response (+/-3dB): 28Hz - 25kHz
Crossover Points: 1800Hz
Room Efficiency: 93dB
Impedance: 8 ohms nominal, 4.5 ohms minimum
Recommended Amp Power: 30 - 300 watts (RMS)
Dimensions:
H x W x D (in.) 39” x 9 1/2” x 16”
Weight: (ea.) 63 lbs.

 

[TLS Guy]

Sorry about the delay. Had to finish up at work. The purchased drivers were off Ebay pulled from a C-8...the c-4 was a typo, copied and pasted and forgot to change it to C-8. Below is the correct part number and beneath that the specs I pulled off the net of the c-4 and C-8. That's where I made the mistake, they both said 8ohm and looked to be the same minus frequency response figures which I assumed were due to crossover. The c-4 has one driver and a tweeter, the c-8 two drivers and a tweeter. From what I was told the c-8 8ohm when run parallel become 4ohm or something like that. I might be able to get a NOS from Klipsch but it will set me back about $115 and i'm out $70 already on the c-8 drivers. Just trying to find out if there are any alternatives, open to any suggestions. Thanks everyone for the feedback....




5DR61055 - WOOFER 4 OHM ALU. W8/86IRSR Part number for the woofer



Vented 2 way
Tweeter: 1 -25mm aluminum dome with cloth suspension
Woofer: . . 1 -20.3 cm injection molded alumminum/ polypropylene woofer with polypropylene diaphragm and rubber suspension.
Frequency Response (+/-3dB): 35Hz - 25kHz
Crossover Points: 1800Hz
Room Efficiency: 91dB
Impedence: 8 ohms nominal, 4.5 ohms minimum
Recommended Amp Power: 30 - 175 watts (RMS/CHNL)
Dimensions:
H x W x D 83.8 (33") x 24.4 (9 1/2") x 30.5 (12")


Weight: (ea.) 19.2 kgSystem Type: Vented, tapered 3 way
Tweeters: 1 - 25mm aluminum dome with cloth suspension
Woofers: 2 - 20.3 cm injection molded aluminum/ polypropylene woofers with polypropylene diaphragm and rubber suspension.
Frequency Response (+/-3dB): 28Hz - 25kHz
Crossover Points: 1800Hz
Room Efficiency: 93dB
Impedance: 8 ohms nominal, 4.5 ohms minimum
Recommended Amp Power: 30 - 300 watts (RMS)
Dimensions:
H x W x D (in.) 39” x 9 1/2” x 16”
Weight: (ea.) 63 lbs.

There is no way you can use that 8 ohm driver. You need the correct one. Using that driver will double the crossover point of the woofer and drop the output 3db, so yes, the tweeter will play too loud.

Other than buying a new woofer, the only other option is to have your blown woofer reconed. You could have it done or do it yourself, if a reconing kit is available. The third option is a new set of speakers.

 

[Lowsidr]

There is no way you can use that 8 ohm driver. You need the correct one. Using that driver will double the crossover point of the woofer and drop the output 3db, so yes, the tweeter will play too loud.

Other than buying a new woofer, the only other option is to have your blown woofer reconed. You could have it done or do it yourself, if a reconing kit is available. The third option is a new set of speakers.

Thanks for the information. Since I don't know and am asking I don't know what to believe. Not that I disbelieve you. Check this out from another response from another source I received a few minutes ago:

Nothing matters to a cross-over except the Impedence draw--- they all say 4-8 which means 4--- more speaker in cabinet draw more juice --I have one older vsx-516 Pioneer on the back lanai that really does not like 4 ohm when the cables on but is fine off HDMI laptop --- Cable in some area's make you crank the volume up You can buy meter's from CHINA for about 8 bucks but try to find ones that you pay shipping ---QUICKER...like Bose cubs are 2 ohm --they kill an Amp without the Bose Sub hooked up -LOW is real bad , it wants current...

 

[Lowsidr]

And yes, the comment from the other source sounds very sketchy and a bit unbalanced...

 

[j_garcia]

And yes, the comment from the other source sounds very sketchy and a bit unbalanced...

LOL, I wouldn't listen to anything that person said. TLS is correct that the x-over will be affected and the result will be a speaker that does not work as intended. You are correct also that the dual 8 Ohm drivers resulted in a 4 Ohm load to the x-over in the C-8, but the x-over is also likely similar to but not the same as the C-4.

 

[lovinthehd]

And yes, the comment from the other source sounds very sketchy and a bit unbalanced...

LOL, ya think?

 

[TLS Guy]

And yes, the comment from the other source sounds very sketchy and a bit unbalanced...

That source is not articulate and I don't understand the point he is making. He sounds highly ignorant.

I have been doing this since I was 7 and I'm now 70. What I told you is absolutely correct from an engineering stand point. My statement is not arguable except by someone who has no clue. You are welcome to believe what you want and accept the consequences.

 

[Lowsidr]

That source is not articulate and I don't understand the point he is making. He sounds highly ignorant.

I have been doing this since I was 7 and I'm now 70. What I told you is absolutely correct from an engineering stand point. My statement is not arguable except by someone who has no clue. You are welcome to believe what you want and accept the consequences.

I meant zero offense, sorry for not making that clear. You are articulate, clear and concise. The other gentleman was kind to respond but like I said, sketchy. Of the opinions I have received to date I trust yours and will end up eating it and buying the 4ohm NOS driver, granted they have it as support didn't verify stock, just quoted price.

So much for some type of workaround....

 

[Pogre]

From my time here I'm learning that replacement drivers (or any other part of a speaker) absolutely have to be an exact match or it's just not going to work. Speakers and their components are very fussy about being matched in harmony. Any deviation from the original design will generally have a huge negative impact.

I know how you feel. I damaged a woofer on an older model B&W. I looked for a long time before I found a replacement driver.

 

[Lowsidr]

From my time here I'm learning that replacement drivers (or any other part of a speaker) absolutely have to be an exact match or it's just not going to work. Speakers and their components are very fussy about being matched in harmony. Any deviation from the original design will generally have a huge negative impact.

I know how you feel. I damaged a woofer on an older model B&W. I looked for a long time before I found a replacement driver.

Thanks...

 

[Lowsidr]

I'm just sharing this for the curious. The gentleman that replied earlier that seemed a bit off supposedly worked at Bose back in the day and according to him, Advent/Jenson and I think he said JBL. He's 63 now, semi-retired and repairs speakers as a hobby. He just sent me this, I didn't ask him what position he held at the previous companies he worked for.

Right -- when I work over a speaker such as the BOSE 401's I used Everything from the old JBL's , so i drilled an Extra whole for the second tweeter ... they said it would Hurt your tweeter's because the parts for the cross over were designed for within 2 ohm --- they know their system and are not known for cheating on parts like Bose and all those poor quality speakers coming here now... We get our material from China so we have to adapt to their spec's--- I just change the cross-over's-- I have a Goodwill near me and they always had Advents ,so I stocked up cheap ... i knew someone working there --- But a Digital meter is the answer to check the ohm's from the wire in connector on back--- the cap's and resistor's work together --as I said most speaker companies lie --- even amps have a 4-8 ohm switch but that is for them to test---always use 8 ohm setting...little things they do not tell you ,you have to regulate yourself --- they are quite happy if things go wrong because people do not have an ohm meter... Those ADVENT-Laureat's are great , but I still put Acoustic Audio (kevlar) in the bottom for fun --- not a big difference -- it is all the cabinet and cross over..just got the rubber suurround in today to do the original Advent speaker's in --- remember foam is planned to wear out -- I still have 6 Bose speakers with the original cloth mix which will not wear out .... Why do speaker companies use foam ??? MONEY for repair people... Hey I KNOW microsoft screwed up that windows 10 upgrade last year on purpose ,,all kinds of trouble only to find out it was an inadequate upgrade ---OOPS!!! SORRY... I took it off on my Dell and stayed with 7 --- I started with Honeywell in 1978 and all we did to double the speed on a board was clip a wire on a chip--- always they plan ahead ...but the computer cost about 1 million then with 1 meg of memory-- my dell laptop has 4 and upgradable but that is what they want -- like the ohm's value --- very touchy .. Stay with what works, always check reviews on E-bay before you buy.. They still have HDMI problems on Amps even today on E-bay they try to sell the broken ones with no problem saying to you they are tested...

 

[lovinthehd]

My first impression is something like this

 

[Lowsidr]

That good....really good!

 

[Pogre]

The guy can't even articulate a simple sentence very well. I didn't even finish it because it was making me motion sick trying to read it...

HD... LOL

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm just sharing this for the curious. The gentleman that replied earlier that seemed a bit off supposedly worked at Bose back in the day and according to him, Advent/Jenson and I think he said JBL. He's 63 now, semi-retired and repairs speakers as a hobby. He just sent me this, I didn't ask him what position he held at the previous companies he worked for.

Right -- when I work over a speaker such as the BOSE 401's I used Everything from the old JBL's , so i drilled an Extra whole for the second tweeter ... they said it would Hurt your tweeter's because the parts for the cross over were designed for within 2 ohm --- they know their system and are not known for cheating on parts like Bose and all those poor quality speakers coming here now... We get our material from China so we have to adapt to their spec's--- I just change the cross-over's-- I have a Goodwill near me and they always had Advents ,so I stocked up cheap ... i knew someone working there --- But a Digital meter is the answer to check the ohm's from the wire in connector on back--- the cap's and resistor's work together --as I said most speaker companies lie --- even amps have a 4-8 ohm switch but that is for them to test---always use 8 ohm setting...little things they do not tell you ,you have to regulate yourself --- they are quite happy if things go wrong because people do not have an ohm meter... Those ADVENT-Laureat's are great , but I still put Acoustic Audio (kevlar) in the bottom for fun --- not a big difference -- it is all the cabinet and cross over..just got the rubber suurround in today to do the original Advent speaker's in --- remember foam is planned to wear out -- I still have 6 Bose speakers with the original cloth mix which will not wear out .... Why do speaker companies use foam ??? MONEY for repair people... Hey I KNOW microsoft screwed up that windows 10 upgrade last year on purpose ,,all kinds of trouble only to find out it was an inadequate upgrade ---OOPS!!! SORRY... I took it off on my Dell and stayed with 7 --- I started with Honeywell in 1978 and all we did to double the speed on a board was clip a wire on a chip--- always they plan ahead ...but the computer cost about 1 million then with 1 meg of memory-- my dell laptop has 4 and upgradable but that is what they want -- like the ohm's value --- very touchy .. Stay with what works, always check reviews on E-bay before you buy.. They still have HDMI problems on Amps even today on E-bay they try to sell the broken ones with no problem saying to you they are tested...

That guy needs his meds upped. Thought block and fight of ideas exhibited above is classic for the condition. That scribe is diagnostic.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

To repair speakers you need to use exact same parts or the speaker will not sound the same and you also might risk to damage something. It is possible to recone your driver like suggested.

That Bose guy, I lost hope with him as soon as he says he worked for Bose. Ofcourse you can "repair" speakers so they produce sound quite easily, but they wont sound the same if you dont use exact same parts.