Measuring room FR with out speakers???

[STRONGBADF1]

Is there a way to measure room FR with out speakers? I know this might sound dumb but my thought process is if one could map a room accuratly with out your speakers "coloring" getting in the way then you could match speakers to the room thus reducing the amount of sound treatment needed for flat/accurate sound reproduction.

For example...Say my untreated room at the sweet spot has a dip in FR in the midbass. I could buy speakers with a midbass "hump" to help compensate somewhat.

I know that a speakers coloring is more or less how loud or soft it plays particular frequencies but are we sure a speaker is accuratly playing the freq. the source is sending it?

I know this is still an unprefect way to do things but I just can't help but to think there are better ways to help us make more educated decisions.

Just thinking out loud,
SBF1

 

[ScottMayo]

Is there a way to measure room FR with out speakers?...

For example...Say my untreated room at the sweet spot has a dip in FR in the midbass. I could buy speakers with a midbass "hump" to help compensate somewhat.

I know that a speakers coloring is more or less how loud or soft it plays particular frequencies but are we sure a speaker is accuratly playing the freq. the source is sending it?

It's possible to predict which frequencies a room will misbehave at, and to some extent how much. This is what I do when I'm presented with a floor plan and need to draw up treatment. For rectangular rooms it's a simple calculation of modes and a few tweaks for furniture. For more complex rooms it takes a room simulation, but it's still possible.

But buying speakers with sound deformations to match a room is not a good idea. First off, no speaker is ever going to match the multiple humps and valleys a room causes. Secondly, a speaker that pumps up the output to fill a room dip is just going to cause other acoustic anamolies. The big problem, though, is that if the speakers are any good, you'll want to keep them when you move to a new room, or need to redecorate the existing room. And then they won't match.

No speaker on earth has a flat FR graph, and if you see such a graph, worry, because if they hacked up the crossover so extensively that they forced an artificial flatness in FR, they probably did damage to the signal in some other way. It's good to have a reasonably clean FR in a speaker, but razor flat is not the end all and be all.

The sensible plan is to deal with room acoustics by dealing with the room. It's not that hard, unless there are extreme WAF issues, and even then there are tricks that help.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Is there a way to measure room FR with out speakers? I know this might sound dumb but my thought process is if one could map a room accuratly with out your speakers "coloring" getting in the way then you could match speakers to the room thus reducing the amount of sound treatment needed for flat/accurate sound reproduction.

For example...Say my untreated room at the sweet spot has a dip in FR in the midbass. I could buy speakers with a midbass "hump" to help compensate somewhat.

I know that a speakers coloring is more or less how loud or soft it plays particular frequencies but are we sure a speaker is accuratly playing the freq. the source is sending it?

I know this is still an unprefect way to do things but I just can't help but to think there are better ways to help us make more educated decisions.

Just thinking out loud,
SBF1

Just to add to the above post.
Speakers are not designed with your idea in mind. There is an ideal characteristics that a speaker should deliver and that is what designers, good ones, are trying to meet. Oh, this is in an anechoic chamber.

With your idea in mind, an infinite, almost, speaker variants need to be built. Not going to happen.
As suggested, try to listen to good speakers, then if your room has issues, then you live with it if you have a WAF issue, or correct the room. No other way.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Thanks guys,

To quote myself "I know this is still an unprefect way to do things but I just can't help but to think there are better ways to help us make more educated decisions."

I have no intensions of doing this. Just stumbling around in my mind and wondering about the "speaker/room relationship" and if auditioning speakers in the room you will be useing them is best there should be some way of narrowing down the contenders.

If my room lacks the ability to reproduce bass wouldn't a speaker with more bass sound better in my room and if I have a dead room wouldn't a "brighter" speaker sound better in my room. ( this all assumes the person doing this prefers a balanced "accurate" sound profile.)

I don't think I gave a very good (totally thought out) example in the first post. Sorry if I didn't explain myself well. ( and still not doing a great job but I think you get where I'm coming from.) Like I said, just stumbling around and thinking out loud...Hey I might even learn something!

SBF1

 

[Ethan Winer]

> Is there a way to measure room FR with out speakers? <

Yes. You can pop a balloon or use a starter's pistol to create a loud broadband impulse, and that can be recorded and analyzed afterward with software.

As the others explained this is not a good idea. I understand you're just asking theoretically, so maybe I can add a bit more.

First, room problems are not only frequency response but also time-based - echoes, reverb, early reflections, and modal ringing. The time-based stuff is at least half the battle, and "matching" a speaker's response to a room's response won't help that.

Also, I would never consider a loudspeaker that intentionally deviates from flat by very much because such deviations often indicate other failings. Bad loudspeakers are bad in many ways other than frequency response. So it makes the sense to get the most accurate speakers you can, and address the room problems separately.

--Ethan

 

[mtrycrafts]

Just stumbling around in my mind and wondering about the "speaker/room relationship" and if auditioning speakers in the room you will be useing them is best there should be some way of narrowing down the contenders.

This you would rely on speakers from reputable and highly regarded speaker makers. Getting their speakers into your room to audition will be another trick


If my room lacks the ability to reproduce bass wouldn't a speaker with more bass sound better in my room


No. The room will have issues no matter what and at more than one bass frequency. Some will be cut by a bunch, like 20 dB spl, or more, and some will be boosted in a similar manner.
You put a sub in one location you have one plot, place it in another location, you have a much different plot. Easy to demonstrate by playing a 40Hz signal and walking around, or sitting and standing up, or just changing seat position in a two person sofa Then repeat with 50Hz. A totally different ballgame.

I don't think I gave a very good (totally thought out) example in the first post. Sorry if I didn't explain myself well. ( and still not doing a great job but I think you get where I'm coming from.) Like I said, just stumbling around and thinking out loud...Hey I might even learn something!

SBF1

Yes, you are looking to tailor make speakers to your room, to one speaker location only. Going to be expensive
But, if your idea was doable, it would be on the market, by someone.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Good stuff guys,

I knew when I posted that I would be shot full of holes but I wanted to see why. Getting good audio is more complicated than most people would think and my wife says I tend to think too much ...but I like mental exercises on occasion.

Thank you all, again.

Making things more complicated than they need to be,
SBF1

 

[mtrycrafts]

Getting good audio is more complicated than most people would think and my wife says I tend to think too much ...but I like mental exercises on occasion.
Thank you all, again.
Making things more complicated than they need to be,
SBF1

Thinking is good. It gets things invented and discovered
Not thinking will make you an easy mark for the marketeers It might delay the onset of some brain illness???
Some things are good when they are complex