Nomo

Nomo

Audioholic Samurai
Yawa suddenly seems to be unloading it's 830 speakers at pretty good prices.
Very tempting. However I'm thinking that at 4 ohms with my Yamaha 1500 on it's own I can't drive these.
Am I correct? Or am I missing something?
I do currently have a Onkyo M-282 driving my fronts. But the amp only rated to 6 ohms.
Does Biamping change the effective impedence of a speaker?
 
L

Leprkon

Audioholic General
"unloading" is a relative term... they had the 830's down below $900 a pair just before Thanksgiving.. you might wait till a couple weeks after Christmas too see if they go down again..they also the NAD receivers about $500 off then as well... that would solve your other problem. ;)
 
Nomo

Nomo

Audioholic Samurai
I agree. Waiting is probably not bad idea at this time.
I had all but eliminated these from my wish list a couple months ago because of the 4 ohm factor.
Thanks for the reply Leprkon.
But... back to the latter question: Will bi-amping a speaker change the impedance an amplifier sees going through that speaker? It would almost seem as though the the amplifiers would actually see less than the rated impedance.
The reason for asking is this would limit my choice of speakers to those with 8 ohms as my Yamaha doesn't do anything less than 6 ohm very well.

Any comments would be appreciated.
 
L

Leprkon

Audioholic General
note: these cases are for bi-wired (not necessarily bi-amped). it might help.

stolen very freely from large vs small speaker settings in the FAQs

by Gene

A Rule of Thumb about Parallel and Series Connectivity of Speakers:

Parallel Connection:
If your receiver has an A / B speaker selector switch and does not mute the audio when you select both but only have one pair of speakers connected, than the connections are wired in parallel and thus when you connect two pairs of speakers in this fashion, the impedance will be:

Z1*Z2 / (Z1 + Z2)

where Z1 is speaker set # 1's impedance
and Z2 is speaker set # 2's impedance.

Note: In the parallel case, be careful not to use speakers with impedances lower than 8 ohms (nom) as your equivalent parallel impedance seen by the amplifier while both sets of speakers are running simultaneously will be 4 ohms; which may be too much for most receivers to handle.

Series Wiring:
If the sound goes off when you select A and B speaker outputs but only have one set of speakers connected, then the Receiver is wired in series. In that case, the equivalent impedance your receiver will see with two sets of speakers operating is:

Z1 + Z2

The series case may degrade overall sound quality and halve the output volume, but it is safer to drive low impedance speakers in this fashion with less capable power amplifiers. Try to use similar speakers in this case as it will help reduce phasing problems and will better cope with sensitivity issues presented by both sets of speakers running simultaneously
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
You missed out. They had 'em for $599 a pair during Thanksgiving. I had my 830's on my 1400 & it worked well. But, I added an amp due to the fact I found an Adcom for a super price. They should go on sale again before the end of the year! Check daily. You WILL love these speakers. :D The 1500 can drive 'em with no problem!
 
Nomo

Nomo

Audioholic Samurai
Leprkon,
Thanks again. I do understand the ideas behind running 2 sets of speakers from 1 reciever, but I think this is a different animal all together. Running one set of speakers from two different amps surely must have some effect on the apparent impedence. I never really thought about it before starting this thread.

Zumbo,
I really didn't miss out. I kinda let them go last month primarily because of the impedance issue.
Not to put too much doubt into your word. A lot of your advice I've read here has been pretty helpful. But I'm having serious doubts as to the 1500's capability of driving a set of 4 ohm 87db speakers efficiently and safely on it's own.
I have heard a set of MBs. About a year ago. I don't remember the model. Coinsidently through a Yamaha 2ch reciever. They do sound nice. But not so nice that I want to cook an amp or reciever to hear them.
Buying another amp?
Just a second, I'll see what my girlfriend thinks......... :rolleyes:
Nope, Bad idea.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
LOL! It took a little while to talk my wife into the amp. And she can't tell a difference in the sound. It is nice not to hear the fan come on in the receiver. :D I am sure it will last longer. The only other speaker I HAVE HEARD that can compare is B&W 703's. Cost is much greater though. Paradigm is my third choice.
 
furrycute

furrycute

Banned
How low can these MB Quarts go? What is the impedance anyways?
 
Yamahaluver

Yamahaluver

Audioholic General
I have used lower impedance NS-1000 speakers with Yamaha receivers and have also tried it on my Z-9, MB Quart would run without any problems, they are quite sensitive so you would never need to crank them up to insane levels, therefore the impedance problems will never arise.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
The ONLY thing I would worry about is DVD-A or SACD. This MIGHT be too much of a load at high volumes. But only if you have 4ohm all around as I do. It can handle a movie without breaking a sweat. It can handle 2-channel as well. I have had my fan come on, but it had been cranked for hours. My 1400 NEVER went into protection mode in the few months I used it without an external amp.
 
Nomo

Nomo

Audioholic Samurai
DVD-A and SACD are not a major issue at this time. I don't foresee running 4 ohm all the way around any time soon. If that would become the case I may have to consider another amp (or two???). Probably won't get to that extreme.

Thanks for the advise guys. We'll have to see what pops up in the future.


Have a Merry Christmas.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
Keep me posted. I would love to hear what you think about them if you decide to purchase. :)
 
Yamahaluver

Yamahaluver

Audioholic General
The only precaution I would use is to put a good quality fan on top of the receiver.
 
Nomo

Nomo

Audioholic Samurai
I'll no doubt waffle back and forth on speakers for quite a while. Too many choices, too little demo time.
The latest flavor of the day is B&W DM603 S3. Listened to these yesterday.
WOW! Sounded much nicer to my ears than the Paradigms and DefTecs I heard a few weeks ago. "weeks ago" being the operative term. It gets hard for my ears to remember differences in sound over more than a few days.
I do have the advantage of time. My system is up and running just fine. Eventually it will come down to a matter of timing. (and finances).
I'm sure by then I'll have gone in several different directions.
I am still looking for a place to audition the Yamaha 777s. Given their price tag, I dont want to rule them out without hearing them. The price I was quoted for the B&Ws was $900.00. That's getting up there!

I'll probably have more "what do you think" questions coming.
 
Yamahaluver

Yamahaluver

Audioholic General
While the NS-777 is a fine speaker in its own right and an excellent value, if you are bringing B&W to the ring, I would suggest moving up to the Yamaha NS-8HX as well as Canton Ergo and Magnepan speakers just to widen your perspective.
 
Nomo

Nomo

Audioholic Samurai
I realize throwing the B&Ws in may change the rules a bit. And I'm not expecting the 777s to be on the same level. I'm not sure if I really need a speaker the caliber of B&Ws but if nothing else speakers such as these give a nice bench mark. I will look into the other Yamahas as well.
 
L

Leprkon

Audioholic General
Yamahaluver said:
I would suggest moving up to the Yamaha NS-8HX as well as Canton Ergo and Magnepan speakers just to widen your perspective.
won't the Maggies be as hard or harder on the system than the Quarts would ? I thought they were a 4 ohm speaker that really took alot of energy to drive... I've never heard them, but that's what I seem to remember reading (along with that they did sound absolutely fantastic, again, reading only)...
 
furrycute

furrycute

Banned
The magnepans are very difficult to drive. You will most likley need a heavy duty amp to drive magnepans.
 
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