may get my hand on a pro-150fd!

C

clouso

Banned
Alright iv been thinking a lot about panny and that black rising issue..''even if panny say its not an issue!''.....i think it is an issue and tomorrow i could take my 54g10 back to my local dealer..he will give my full money back on a pro-150fd and i would have to pay the difference...it is a demo he had there for approx 2 years now and we calculated that the display have about 2000 hours cause it is not always on in his shop....so can you guys tell me about the pro-150fd compared to other pioneer elite ones?...and if you were me would you do it??...i dont care anymore about the 3d thing and i gain 6inches too and thats a nice thing ... all i want is a nice display that will keep its blacks black..lol...thx.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
I have the KRP-600M, which is almost identical to the PRO-141FD.

I really only have one complaint, which is that it produces an audible buzz. To be honest, the buzz is not louder than my previous Samsung or LG plasmas. But the buzz from the Pioneer is more noticeable because it actually emanates from the screen itself!

With my previous Samsung and LG plasmas, there was actually a second layer of glass over the plasma panel. Having this second layer of glass pretty much blocked the operational buzz coming out the front, so the buzz on those plasmas really only came out the back and the top. With the Pioneer Kuro though, there is no second layer of glass and the operational buzz from the plasma panel clearly comes right out the front of the display as well as from the back.

To be blunt, the buzz is loud enough that it is objectionable to me. I've gone to some trouble to make my theatre room very quiet. I also sit a mere 7.5 feet away from this 60" display. With this sort of setup and environment, the buzz is clearly audible and distracting during quieter moments.

From a picture quality standpoint, no other display can compare to the Kuro plasmas. It's as simple as that. I genuinely have no complaints about the picture quality - other than the fact that uneven pixel aging is still a problem since I do play videogames. With a bright HUD on screen for several hours at a time, it is possible to see where those pixels are a bit dimmer than the rest if I put up a 100 IRE all-white screen. Running break-in patterns restores the picture, but it's still a minor gripe. That said, LCD displays can suffer from uneven pixel aging as well, so this really is not much of a knock against the Pioneer Kuro plasmas. Just be aware that the pixels DO dim over time and that they can dim unevenly if you have bright HUDs on screen for hours the way that I do. It is NOT burn-in because the HUD does not remain visible with other content, nor is it image retention as, again, the HUD does not remain visible. It is simply uneven pixel aging as the bright HUD causes those few pixels to age and dim more quickly, which is then visible with an all white screen.

So the Kuro plasmas are not perfect, but they are still the absolute best displays out there. I would advise you to listen carefully to discern whether the operational buzz is going to be a problem for you. Some people really do not notice it and many people have high enough ambient noise in their room that the buzz is a non-issue. For me, the buzz is the biggest problem, but I live with it because there is no other display that can compete from a picture-quality standpoint.

Hope that helps!
 
C

CypherMax

Junior Audioholic
Buzz or no buzz the best TV money can buy! I've had my PRO 111FD for over a year now heard the buzz once for about 5 mins when I turned the set on in the morning in COMPLETE SILENCE could only be heard maybe 5 feet away I sit 11 so it wasnt an issue and hasnt been since. I'd say go for it and get it ISF calibrated to boot and you've got the best picture on earth! Good Luck!
 
C

clouso

Banned
thx to both of you but the thing didnt work out for the pro-150fd..but now i have another choice..lol...my dealer will contact me as soon he knows he sold my g10 and i would get a pro-1150hd in return with very little money to spend cause he is making a good price on it cause he really wants to get rid of the pioneers there...now i know the pro-1150hd is 780p and i loose 4 inches compared to my 54 g10 but the picture iv seen on this 1150 is amazing!..honestly i didnt see much difference in PQ in comparison with the 150fd...now im sitting at 8' from my tv do you think its good for a 50''.. 780p hdtv?..thx.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
When it comes to screen size vs. distance and whether or not an operational buzz is going to bother you - it's very much a person by person thing. Myself, I like a really big screen, so I wouldn't personally be happy with 50" from 8 feet. But there are probably more people out there who find my preference for 60" at 7.5 feet (actually, exactly 7.6 feet - I measured :p ) to be too big, so it's very much a personal preference thing.

If you know that your distance from eyes to screen is going to be 8 feet, the simple thing to do is to go to any store, bring along a tape measure, stand exactly 8 feet from eyes to screen and decide what screen size looks best to you at that distance.

Just for reference, my 7.6 foot distance from a 60" screen gives me almost exactly a 32 degree field of view, which is literally right on the edge of where maximum detail can be gleaned from a 1080p resolution display before individual pixels potentially become visible.

SMPTE recommends a 30 degree field of view, which would equate to a 6.78 foot viewing distance from a 50" screen.

At 8 feet, a 50" screen will give you a 25.6 degree field of view, which is on the smaller range of the generally accepted 24-32 degree field of view range where most people think HDTV looks best.

Then again, we must consider that the 1150 is a 1366 x 768 resolution display. If you wish to glean maximum detail from that resolution, but be far enough away that there is no possibility of seeing individual pixels, then you would actually be aiming for a 22.76 degree field of view. This assumes that you have "perfect" 20/20 vision and each of the 1366 pixels going across the screen occupies exactly one arc minute of your visual field. With "perfect" human vision, we can discern two points as being separate and distinct if they are separated by one arc minute (1/60th of a degree) of distance. So basically, imagine that we put up a test pattern with a white line that is exactly one pixel wide from top to bottom. Right next to that, we put a black line that is exactly one pixel wide. And right next to that, we put another white line that is exactly one pixel wide. If we want to be able to see these lines clearly, and not just have our vision "mash" them together into a grey field, each line needs to be at least one arc minute in width. Therefore, each pixel needs to be one arc minute in width - make sense?

So a 1366 x 768 resolution display will offer maximum detail if it occupies a 22.76 degree field of view. That would equate to a distance of exactly 9 feet from a 50" screen.

So bottom line is that an 8 foot distance is likely just fine for the 1150. There's a slight chance that you might be able to make out individual pixels with certain images, but it isn't highly likely. You'd be more or less in the "sweet spot" range for desireable HDTV image size. You'd be able to make out the maximum detail that a 1366 x 768 resolution display can offer.

Personally, I'd like an even bigger display and the 1080p resolution to go along with it, but that is MY preference and doesn't necessarily mean anything to anyone else.

Do still have a listen to the display to figure out if the operational buzz might bother you. As CypherMax said, it doesn't bother him. I'm extremely picky, my room is very quiet and I sit closer, so the buzz DOES bother me. But, like I said, I still put up with it because no other display LOOKS as good as the Pioneer plasmas.

Best of luck in your decision!
 
C

clouso

Banned
well i could manage to get at 7'...i have been trying to find experts reviews on the pro-1150hd but cant find any!.. its been too long since i guess.....do you think beeing an elite kuro that it can or is even better then some 1080p hdtv's??...
 
C

clouso

Banned
btw i am willing to give up about size and get the best picture i can..i am all about picture quality for what i can pay for...so i think 50'' at 7 feet would be great with a really nice picture...the picture i saw on the 1150hd was impressive and it was a hd tv programming source not even blu-ray.. ..it was side by side with the 150fd and like i said before i coulnt make the difference in PQ..of course the blacks were amazing and this tv have a lot more to offer then my g10 in term of picture adjustment and other stuff...i think i made my decision and i am only waiting for my local dealer to call me...he had some people to contact to sell them my g10 and as soon he sells it i will get the pro-150hd...thx for your help.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
The 1150, even being a bit older and having 1366 x 768 resolution, is most definitely still a better display than the majority of 1080p displays that are out there!

There are many facets to picture quality. The Kuro plasmas nailed pretty much all of them. With virtually all other displays, you can point to at least one or two facets where they fall down pretty hard.

That's why I say that the operational buzz from my KRP-600M is my biggest complaint! When a faint buzz is the biggest thing that you can complain about with a display, that's a pretty glowing appraisal of its picture quality!

Resolution - the whole 1080p!!!!OMG thing - is given FAR too much credence by most people. Think of it in exactly the same way that you think of "megapixels" on a camera's spec sheet. People who are not very knowledgeable grab onto the resolution spec because it is easy to spot (the bigger number must make it better, right?).

In reality, resolution makes a pretty small difference to our eyes. Things like contrast, accurate colours, proper gamma, lack of blur, good video processing and a non-glare screen make a WAY bigger difference than 720p vs. 1080p. It just so happens that it is often the case that higher end televisions that are better in every way also happen to be 1080p instead of 720p. But people mistakenly attribute the better-looking picture to the 1080p spec rather than realizing that 1080p isn't making much of a difference; all of those other factors are making the difference!

Bottom line is that I would take and recommend a 1366 x 768 resolution Kuro over any other display other than an even larger a 1080p Kuro, of course :p

Believe me, I keep looking for a display that is even better than my Kuro, but no such display exists! I would LOVE to find a 60" or larger display that can at least equal the picture quality - maybe even be a tiny bit worse, but still darn close - while operating without any audible buzz. That would be my perfect display and I'm fully willing to pay a good chunk of change for that. But no such display exists.

7 feet from a 50" display would be pretty good IMO. You MIGHT be able to make out individual pixels from that distance with the 768p resolution, but it would likely only be the odd time here and there with certain images that reveal that kind of detail.
 
C

clouso

Banned
The 1150, even being a bit older and having 1366 x 768 resolution, is most definitely still a better display than the majority of 1080p displays that are out there!

There are many facets to picture quality. The Kuro plasmas nailed pretty much all of them. With virtually all other displays, you can point to at least one or two facets where they fall down pretty hard.

That's why I say that the operational buzz from my KRP-600M is my biggest complaint! When a faint buzz is the biggest thing that you can complain about with a display, that's a pretty glowing appraisal of its picture quality!

Resolution - the whole 1080p!!!!OMG thing - is given FAR too much credence by most people. Think of it in exactly the same way that you think of "megapixels" on a camera's spec sheet. People who are not very knowledgeable grab onto the resolution spec because it is easy to spot (the bigger number must make it better, right?).

In reality, resolution makes a pretty small difference to our eyes. Things like contrast, accurate colours, proper gamma, lack of blur, good video processing and a non-glare screen make a WAY bigger difference than 720p vs. 1080p. It just so happens that it is often the case that higher end televisions that are better in every way also happen to be 1080p instead of 720p. But people mistakenly attribute the better-looking picture to the 1080p spec rather than realizing that 1080p isn't making much of a difference; all of those other factors are making the difference!

Bottom line is that I would take and recommend a 1366 x 768 resolution Kuro over any other display other than an even larger a 1080p Kuro, of course :p

Believe me, I keep looking for a display that is even better than my Kuro, but no such display exists! I would LOVE to find a 60" or larger display that can at least equal the picture quality - maybe even be a tiny bit worse, but still darn close - while operating without any audible buzz. That would be my perfect display and I'm fully willing to pay a good chunk of change for that. But no such display exists.

7 feet from a 50" display would be pretty good IMO. You MIGHT be able to make out individual pixels from that distance with the 768p resolution, but it would likely only be the odd time here and there with certain images that reveal that kind of detail.
thx firstreflection and yes i will get the 1150 as soon as i can...the picture i saw there was just too impressive...:D..i am waiting for a call from my local dealer and it should be during next week...ill let you know when i get it..thx again..
 
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