Matching AVR & Amplifier to Speakers

[rjharle]

I have an Anthem MRX 720 and PVA 7 that I plan to drive my Focal Aria speakers.
My configuration is as follows, using the preamp outputs from the MRX 720 to the PVA 7

The Anthem PVA 7 Will drive
Two Focal Aria 926 front R/L,
One CC900 Center,
Four Klipsch CDT-5200- CII Height One R/L and Height Two R/L
(MRX 720 only has Height preamp outputs)

The Anthem MRX 720 Will Drive
Two 906 Surround R/L,
Two 906 Back R/L

The configuration will be corrected by ARC Genesis room 13' X 22'

I think the setup/sound is good. But I recently read an article the to get the maximum performance for speakers they need to be matched to the amp. Is this true ? If so, what is the amp I need?

 

[MaxInValrico]

If you think it sounds good why change it?

 

[ski2xblack]

Matched how? If it can drive the load your speakers present to your desired listening levels you're all set.

 

[j_garcia]

Matched how? If it can drive the load your speakers present to your desired listening levels you're all set.

This. "Matched" sounds like someone's opinion. Based on that room size, I would expect this setup to sound very good. The Arias are 91.5 dB sensitive and 8 Ohm, so it should be fine. Seems you've distributed the mains off to the PVA7 so I see no reason why this setup would have issues delivering good SPL.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, how does it "match"? Seems your PVA7 is capable of handling low impedance loads and has a reasonable amount of power, if anything maybe a more powerful amp might be in order depending on your spl levels....

 

[rjharle]

If you think it sounds good, why change it?

I don't know what it will sound like. I think it will be good, but I don't have the speakers yet; they are on the way. The reason I posted the question is that I didn't consider (if it's needed) matching the AVR/Amplifier.

I would suppose the ultimate AVR for these speakers would be the FOCAL ASTRAL 16; $20,000.00 If that's the case I'll have to sell my firstborn.

 

[rjharle]

Matched how? If it can drive the load your speakers present to your desired listening levels you're all set.

I'm not positive, but I think it has to do the room size and performance the comment was "in order for these speakers to HUM" they must be matched to the right amp.

When I first considered the Focals I contacted Anthem and told them what I was going to use to drive the speakers. My main concern at that time was the amps' reaction to the speakers going down to 2 ohms. The tech looked at the speakers, room size, and said "the 2 ohm load would be fine and since I'm using 2 subs the system would be loader then I could handle" and since I was using a sub I would have plenty of "headroom". So I'm more concerned about the quality of the sound if the ARV/Amplifier have to be matched. I'm not sure what they meant by "HUM/DETAIL"

 

[lovinthehd]

Who said that "in order for these speakers to HUM" etc? Sounds like the often excited subjective experience type comment (or someone who simply listens louder than some others). Some speaker forums are full of this kind of optimizing/full potential/sing type of comments rather than anything particularly useful in real terms. Room size/levels etc of course matter....but more in terms of a higher power output than a lower impedance capability.

 

[rjharle]

Who said that "in order for these speakers to HUM" etc? Sounds like the often excited subjective experience type comment (or someone who simply listens louder than some others). Some speaker forums are full of this kind of optimizing/full potential/sing type of comments rather than anything particularly useful in real terms. Room size/levels etc of course matter....but more in terms of a higher power output than a lower impedance capability.

I just found the article. It was a video review :

focal aria 936 review - Search Videos

www.bing.com

 

[lovinthehd]

I just found the article. I was a video review :

focal aria 936 review - Search Videos

www.bing.com

Meh, you can have Andrew's pitches/opinions, personally I find him a bit annoying over time. I did subscribe when he started it as I had liked some of his previous written articles.

 

[ski2xblack]

Yeah, listening to that guy in the video may trigger some FUD about your amplifier, in service of blind consumerism, not your listening pleasure. Your amp is fine, if not a hoss. If your listening habits and room size don't require a hoss of an amp, don't sweat it.

 

[MaxInValrico]

I don't know what it will sound like. I think it will be good, but I don't have the speakers yet; they are on the way. The reason I posted the question is that I didn't consider (if it's needed) matching the AVR/Amplifier.

I would suppose the ultimate AVR for these speakers would be the FOCAL ASTRAL 16; $20,000.00 If that's the case I'll have to sell my firstborn.

Well then, if you don't know what it sounds like yet, would it not be premature to be looking for a replacement?

 

[rjharle]

Yeah, listening to that guy in the video may trigger some FUD about your amplifier, in service of blind consumerism, not your listening pleasure. Your amp is fine, if not a hoss. If your listening habits and room size don't require a hoss of an amp, don't sweat it.

I checked the SPL and the PVA 7 and MRX 720 both come in at about 103 db at 20 feet.

Source: https://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

(room size 21' X 13' X 8' setup on the 13' wall)

So I'm not to concern about them being loud enough, but about presence and detail.

PVA 7 Specs are:

HEADROOM. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.25 dB (8 Ω), 2.13 dB (4 Ω)
POWER BANDWIDTH . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 Hz to 80 kHz (+0 -3 dB) (125 W at 8 Ω)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE ........ . . . . . 20 Hz to 20 kHz (+0 -0.20 dB), 5 Hz to 100 kHz (+0 -2.5 dB)
INPUT SENSITIVITY . . . . . . . . . .. . . . 1.12 Vrms in for 125 W into 8 Ω
INPUT IMPEDANCE . . . . . . .. . . . . . . 10 kΩ
DAMPING FACTOR . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200 at 1 kHz (ref. 8 Ω)
S/N RATIO . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 122 dB, A-weighted (ref. 125 W)
CHANNEL SEPARATION . . . . . . . . . >65 dB (100 Hz to 10 kHz)
VOLTAGE GAIN. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 dB
SLEW RATE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . 28 V/µs

Focal Aria 936 Specs are:

Frequency Resp (plus-minus 3db) 39hz - 28khz
Low Frequency Point -6db 39hz (using subs)
Sensibility (2.83V/1m) 92 db
Nominal Impedance 8 ohm
Minimum Impedance 2.8 ohm
Recommend amp power 50 - 300 Watts

 

[lovinthehd]

Is your seating right up against the wall?

 

[rjharle]

Is your seating right up against the wall?

No will be between 3-5 feet off the back wall

 

[ski2xblack]

So I'm not to concern about them being loud enough, but about presence and detail.

That's more a function of the source material (recordings with presence and detail), and speakers/local acoustics (revealing or obscuring the presence and detail of the recording). Amps don't have anything to do with presence or detail, despite what the Andrew Robinsons have to say.

 

[rjharle]

That's more a function of the source material (recordings with presence and detail), and speakers/local acoustics (revealing or obscuring the presence and detail of the recording). Amps don't have anything to do with presence or detail, despite what the Andrew Robinson's have to say.

Agreed, and let's say the source material was cleanly recorded. The performance then goes through its preamp stages and is presented cleanly to the amplifier. I understand the amplifier then boosts the performance to a desired level.

I think I may not be asking the right question. When a single piano note is sent to the amplifier, the note is amplified and sent to the speakers. What comes out of the speakers should be tone, octave and resonance that the listener can identify as one note played on a piano. As the material gets more and more complex (more simultaneous notes) it becomes harder and harder it is to separate the instruments playing the notes. Is it the function of the amplifier to maintain all the notes, tones, octaves and resonance without getting confused, so the speakers can present identifiable instruments to the listener?

 

[ski2xblack]

All of what you describe relates to the speaker's ability to change an electric signal to jiggling air. That's no small technical task, and where the vast majority of coloration arises from. The amp won't discriminate a simple sine wave from a complex music signal, it just amplifies what it's fed; it will account for a small fraction of a percent of the coloration (an inaudible amount).

 

[rjharle]

All of what you describe relates to the speaker's ability to change an electric signal to jiggling air. That's no small technical task, and where the vast majority of coloration arises from. The amp won't discriminate a simple sine wave from a complex music signal, it just amplifies what it's fed; it will account for a small fraction of a percent of the coloration (an inaudible amount).

Thank you for the clarification and if I understand your response correctly the amplifier just boosts the electrical signal regardless of its complexity. Since the amplifier just adds wattage to the waves, why is there such a range of cost/types of amplifiers? What makes one amplifier better or more expensive than the other, if an amplifier is just an amplifier and has no effect on the of the performance other than volume?

So, to put it simply, the better the speakers, the better the listener will be able to identify the notes and instruments. Regardless of the Amplifier.

 

[ski2xblack]

if I understand your response correctly the amplifier just boosts the electrical signal regardless of its complexity.

Correct.

why is there such a range of cost/types of amplifiers?

Audio is a rich vein of consumer products with almost a hundred years of history, similar to jewelry, firearms, cameras/lenses, hamburgers, and all sorts of stuff. It just kind of ended up this way. Money makes the world go 'round.

What makes one amplifier better or more expensive than the other

More expensive parts, better build quality, higher labor costs, all of which makes sense, plus a lot of effort towards brand prestige, etc. The truth is that there really is no direct correlation between cost and performance above a certain level, with many examples of high cost duds, and modern hypex and purifi based amps offering SOTA performance that's down right inexpensive.

...if an amplifier is just an amplifier and has no effect on the of the performance other than volume?

It's not quite that simple. That is getting into "all amps sound the same so why doesn't everyone just get a Walmart cheapie" territory. It's just not true that all amps sound the same. What is true is that amps with low distortion, low output impedance, linear response, and operated within their limits tend to be indistinguishable. But there are some wooly amps with high distortion. There are amps with high output impedance (pretty much every tube amp, older gen class d, and a slew of oddballs from the periphery like some Nelson Pass designs), which will not be linear into a varying load (any speaker). Even well damped amps may not be load invariant into reactive, difficult speaker loads. And clipping happens far more often than many folks realize.

So, to put it simply, the better the speakers, the better the listener will be able to identify the notes and instruments. Regardless of the Amplifier.

Pretty much. That's why we often recommend devoting the bulk of the audio budget towards speakers. It's where the rubber meets the road. After that, clean watts are clean watts, so it's a matter of balancing "too much is just enough" (no clipping, ever!) with "unused power simply goes unused" wastefulness. Unless your room is huge and/or you're an extreme headbanger, the amp you chose seems like it will fall into the "just right" range.