MartinLogan design series

[Kuzma]

Hi there! i'm a new one in this forum, and i'd like to ask those who have owned/auditioned ML's Mosaic/montage/fresco/vignette
i'm planing to buy new ht system in a couple months, and im looking on
Denon 3808 receiver, when it comes arrives and ML front - mosaic rear montage fresco or vignette as a centre and one depth or one grotto (to buy an extra grotto in future) subwoofer
and the questions would be
1. ml have 5ohms nominal impedance, though ML retailer told denon (28**+)would deal with them perfectly, i wonder if someone have had similar experience
maybe in future i would buy an extra power amp. such as rotel 1075 etc. if it would improve the sound...
but i want the system to play well now

2.i've read on this forum that design series are made in china, if it doesnt affect the sound thats ok IMO? but also i'd like to ask what is the build quality, cabinet finish...

3.my room is more than 350square feet, ht zone is about 250sqr feet, so who may tell would this system sound well in my room? especially sub? should i buy 1 depth or 1grotto would be ok (for now)? the same with fresco (centre chanel is in 10ft from the seat) or vignette is not much worse?

4.and the last, i havent had an oportunity to audition these system, because the dealer is far away, but few years ago i auditioned system B&K components receiver and electrostats, smth like vantage-front and like aeon rear with electrostatic centre as well and a sub with 3 drivers depth i suppose, it sounded pretty cool, but the price was shoking
but one has told me that those ATF drivers soud just like electrostats is it correct?
i listen to different music and i like it to sound dynamicaly, with all the detailes audible, clearly no mater what volume level is (though i normally listen at moderate levels) but with movie soundtracks you know...
the reproduction of women vocal matters to me... as i was told by phone MartinLogans are what i am looking for, but dealer is good and owner of ML is better!
maybe i should look fo smth else (Focal profile
http://www.focaljmlab.com/focal/accueil_en.htm
but that system is more expensive ) oppinions?
looking forward to your replies

p.s.excuse my english/spelling...

 

[billnchristy]

Personally I was not very impressed with the low end MLs.

It made me talk down about them and get attacked for it...

For practically $700 a piece I think you can do better...much better.

And a center with 4"s as woofers? If you like movies this will not do, especially at nearly a grand!

 

[Seth=L]

There is a large difference between the ML electrostats and the Design Series. The Clarity is a smaller ESL but it is still made in China, the good MLs are made in the US.

 

[highfihoney]

For dedicated music listening in a fixed position they are nice but for HT or needing a large sweet spot there are alot better choices than Martin Logans,this has nothing to do with them being made in the USA or China,the problems with them lie within the speaker design/implimentation itself.

ML's are also not a maintainence free speaker system,you will need to vacume the panels constantly & if you live in a dusty home or you are a smoker both will drastically effect the way the speakers sound.

I'd say for the money there are a ton of better choices.

 

[Kuzma]

There is a large difference between the ML electrostats and the Design Series. The Clarity is a smaller ESL but it is still made in China, the good MLs are made in the US.

thanks for all your replies
I was afraid of that you know they arent quite cheap? in Ukraine (my country) mosaic costs 2100$ montage 1500 fresco 1100 depth 2200 and a summ reaches 7000, so definitely there are some other worth products

there is some other point, the system should be, let me say, "good-looking" (my wife wouldnt apreciate big rectangular boxes,even nicely veneered
frankly i can understant her point of view, as we are moving to new house, and it would be nice thet the system doesn't spoil the interior,---but without/with minimal compromise in sound
...the HT has no special room and will be situated in hall) and the other fact is that centre speaker should be hanged on the wall (so that is why i looked on fresco etc. )

and what would the audioholic comunity say about these systems
1.Focal profile 918, centre, and a larger sub (rear speakers - smth else bacause 908 on stands cost 1600+400euros and a floorstanding 918 -2200euros )
http://www.focaljmlab.com/focal/accueil_en.htm
2.B&W XT system (XT4 XT2 XTC PV1 sub or 2 subs) but i am a bit troubled about the sub it doesnt look to be as good as it's specifications
http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.ranges/label/RANGE XT Series

or maybee some other goodlooking speaker sets?

 

[Tomorrow]

thanks for all your replies
I was afraid of that you know they arent quite cheap? in Ukraine (my country) mosaic costs 2100$ montage 1500 fresco 1100 depth 2200 and a summ reaches 7000, so definitely there are some other worth products

there is some other point, the system should be, let me say, "good-looking" (my wife wouldnt apreciate big rectangular boxes,even nicely veneered
frankly i can understant her point of view, as we are moving to new house, and it would be nice thet the system doesn't spoil the interior,---but without/with minimal compromise in sound
...the HT has no special room and will be situated in hall) and the other fact is that centre speaker should be hanged on the wall (so that is why i looked on fresco etc. )

and what would the audioholic comunity say about these systems
1.Focal profile 918, centre, and a larger sub (rear speakers - smth else bacause 908 on stands cost 1600+400euros and a floorstanding 918 -2200euros )
http://www.focaljmlab.com/focal/accueil_en.htm
2.B&W XT system (XT4 XT2 XTC PV1 sub or 2 subs) but i am a bit troubled about the sub it doesnt look to be as good as it's specifications
http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.ranges/label/RANGE XT Series

or maybee some other goodlooking speaker sets?

Kuzma, welcome to Audioholics. You may be our first member from the Ukraine.

We could make wiser recommendations if you first told us what your budget is for the system you wish to acquire, and the room size, as well as your intended application (mostly home theater or 2-channel music, etc.). Also, do you have any limitations on importing equipment or must you buy only what is available in your country?

 

[Kuzma]

Kuzma, welcome to Audioholics. You may be our first member from the Ukraine.

We could make wiser recommendations if you first told us what your budget is for the system you wish to acquire, and the room size, as well as your intended application (mostly home theater or 2-channel music, etc.). Also, do you have any limitations on importing equipment or must you buy only what is available in your country?

Thanks Glad to hear

These ofcourse are reasoneble questions and since ML isnt the only brand i was looking at as long as design series weren't highly praised here, lets start from the begining

As i have mentioned i'm moving to new house (by the end of summer)
and i'm collecting info on my future system
1.curently i own stereo (onkyo a9711integra+cd7511+speakers mirage fRx-seven, its quite old and not very nice looking (spkrs i mean) but it deliveres the sound i like , not to say that i dont hear its weak points... also i own onkyo 601 receiver and KEF KHT 2005.2 sub/sat system)

2.these are different systems in different rooms but in future i would like to have the only system both for HT and music (multichanel as well) in a 50/50 proportion (maybe sometimes 60/40 to movies )

3.the budget is about 5000-6000eur (up to 7000usd)for the speakers
also i am looking forward to buy Denon 3808 receiver and DVD 2930 or alike (for using denonlink for SACD playback and HDMI 1.3 for my future PS3 etc.)
when needed i would buy an extra power amp. 2-3-5chnl. and use denon as a preamp.
but concerning the budget mark that prices in Ukraine are about 10% (or even more for some brands) more expensive than in US (maybee european brands ~~)
but still everything that is linked to US $ (USA, Japanese cars, US loudspeakers ) is a better purchase

4.speaker configuration should be 5.1 or 5.2 (in future)

5.in general i dont have limitations on importing speakers but transport taxes (especially transatlantic) make it worthless
i can buy speakers in europe and refund a TAX free but it is also not a good idea because if i pay Ukrainian VAT and other it would have no sence...
so the best opportunity is to buy my stuff in UA

6.i listen to different genres pop, soft rock, classical, JAZZ, instrumental and watch differen movies on moderate sound levels, but clearness on sound peaks is appreciated i like also detailed sound, with the fidelity in timbres (who doesnt ) with deep clear bass and sharp but !not harsh! high frequencies

7. room is more than 350square feet and HT zone is 250-300 square feet (rectangular zone half the rectangle ~~~15*18ft)

Thanks for your further replies

 

[Kuzma]

And a center with 4"s as woofers? If you like movies this will not do, especially at nearly a grand!

i thougth it might be interesting for you (saw this speakers in magazine few days ago and didnt believe my eyes )
check this out
http://66.130.192.248:9081/gemmeAudio/features/Products.html
(vivace loudspeaker)
single driver 4'' and 20Hz deep low freq.
but the price... 5000$ in Ukraine

 

[billnchristy]

Oh its do-able.

I use a set of Jordan JX92s in my 2ch rig. They are a 4" driver but the raw speakers cost $390USD a pair. In a tower configuration they can play to the 30s but I put mine in a small bookshelf.

Problem with it is you are using a tower enclosure so the volume is way greater than a center would ever have.

Ok, as far as recommendations, have you checked out the Strata Minis from AV123?

There is a guy over on their forum that has a pair of minis and a set of 10k ML and he still listens to the minis on occassion and had some very nice things to say about them.

Minis are just over $2k here, dont know what shipping would be but I do know that MLS, the owner, has a home in Russia, so shipping is possible.

 

[Kuzma]

wow! the name "mini" seems funny
but they are definitely not being sold in UA, ML- are,
and i have to say that im affraid these speakers are too large
but price is very nice as for this type of speakers (active bass) planar tweeters...

i think that the best set for my room would be medium sized floorstanders as a front onwall center (hanged under the LCD TV) and small floorstander as a rear speakers, so that is why i looked at martinlogans
these spkrs also should be good looking, not to say that minis are bad looking they're superb, better exterior than ML as i can see, but i am not sure that i would convince my wife for that sort of a speakers

my candidates are
B&W XT system
Focal profile system
Cabasse Ki/iO2 system
http://www.cabasse-usa.com/english/io2/
(check these out they're small and play from 80, 150Hz respectively? but the can handle peaks up to 7 times more the nominal power!!!! looks perfect for HT?)
Martinlogans system i described above
maybee there are some more goodlooking/sounding speakers?

 

[Kuzma]

...if anyone is reading i also looked at
1.Sonus Faber Domus range http://www.sonusfaber.com/index.html (made in Italy) these are mostly for classical music but if they can handle with classics why wouldn't they do with jazz/pop music as well
2.Thiel Audio 1.6 + 3*SCS 3 (2.4+1.6+SCS3 would be too expensive )
3.Chario Constelation range (Cygnus, Pegasus,Phoenix and a subwoofer from some other manufacturer ) another Italian www.chario.it

but these loudspeakers are 4-ohms speakers and as far as i decided to buy denon 38** receiver which drives spks with impedance 6 ohms min. i had to look for smth else

maybee someone can tell me anything about THIEL speakers?