Marantz sr8012 Setup? Connection? Bad monoblocks?

N

niku

Audiophyte
I bought Marantz sr8012. Currently it only drives a pair of new B&W 702s2 speakers. Very happy with it.
But to drive my new B&W 702s2 speakers to their full potential, it is under powered, even with bi-amp connection.
So I just bought a pair of used Bel Cato Ref1000M monoblocks. But after connected with them, there is no effects of amplification, although I can hear the sound well. The sound still sounds like without the added amplifier. I still have to turn the volume up to about 50%, like before without the amp, to hear the sound and music.

Did I setup wrong in the Marantz setup system?
RCA connection from marantz Pre-Out to the monoblocks' input.
each monoblock connect to its own speaker.
Marantz setup:
Speakers -> Manual Setup -> Amp Assingn:
5.1ch Full Bi-Amp. (This seems the lowest setup option for two speakers)
What's the problem? setup option? cable itself? connection? Or the monoblocks are all bad?
Please help?
 
Last edited:
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The bi-amp connection is mostly nonsense with an avr in the first place, let alone change power significantly. The volume dial on the Marantz is not expressed as a percentage, though, it is logarithmic and expressed in dB.

I think you don't understand how the amp works or had too high of an expectation of what more power brings to the table. If calibrated the master volume reading should be the same, that's why you calibrate. You gained power but that only nets you maybe 5-6 dB more with the amp over the avr.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
First, Biamping doesn't add power to your speakers. It actually robs it, especially from an AVR Amp stage. But even if truly passive bi-amping, your speakers don't see, say 200 watts total if 100 watts are being delivered through each wire. Each part of the XO network still only sees 100w.

When you say 50% volume... this is a meaningless number. Generally for ease of communication, it helps if you set your system to the relative scale where you see -xx to +xx dB. I usually listen between -21 and -10 on my system is stereo mode, for example. In true stereo mode, your AVR should have no problem driving those speakers. In fact, at the rated 90dB sensitivity, it would only take 32w to clear reference level dynamic peaks at 1 meter. 105dB is LOUD. ;)

Please consider trying your speakers in stereo mode only, single wire to each speaker with your jumpers installed, and your volume set for relative scale. Please follow up with your experience so we can help you troubleshoot further. :)
 
N

niku

Audiophyte
Sorry, I did not write it clearly.
1. Without additional added amplifier, just use marantz, after A/B tests with and without the bi-amp connection. It seems that marantz sr8012 do makes better sound with Bi-Amp connection to the B&W 702s2. It seems that this way more "current/signal/power" are delivered into the speakers. Sounds very beautifully !
However, I have to turn up volume up to about, at least, 60% to really get that sound quality that I was expecting.
In a demo room of bestbuy, they are using two Mcintosh monoblocks driving the B&W speakers, the volume
only turned up to 30%, but the sound quality is wonderfully clear and fully. May be I missed many other factors :-(
So my way of catch up with this and trying to understand this, is to use two, cheaper but powerful and efficient, Bel Cato REF1000m monoblock, it can deliver about 500 ~ 600 W to the 8 ohms of the 702s2.
2. With added amplifiers: the pair of Bel Canto REF1000m, use the marantz as an amplifier. I used the jumpers linked the speaker connectors ends. So only one pair of cable connecting from one speaker to the one monoblock, Positive to Positive, Neg to Neg, No more Bi-Amp connection! All in stereo mode to compare.
There is no obvious improvement on the sound quality at same level of 60% volume as before. Not to mention at lower level of 30% volume.
3. Is the dB part of the volume control? Is the another part of volume control is to increase/decrease the current/signal/power into the speaker connection?
So 30% of the volume is: 30% = 30% dB of Max + 30% current/signal/power of Max?
4. I am not sure what is the way to describe the, added, amplifier effects. One way of my understanding is to use Pre-Amp volume to judge the, added, amplifier effects. Please help me to understand this better.
May be the whole addition is useless to achieve what I had hopeful. Then what is way achieve lower volume better sound quality for the whole system?
 
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GrimSurfer

GrimSurfer

Senior Audioholic
Any demo room, if properly done, will sound better than a home space. Corporate finances and unity of purpose has something to do with it.

Volume controls aren't necessarily linear.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
As already mentioned, the SR8012's vol control is logarithmic and calibrated in dB, not %.

Bel Canto, like other high quality amps, are designed for transparency. So if power output is not the issue, it will be highly unlikely for you to hear a difference in sq when compared to the 8012's internal amps and the McIntosh amps and BB (assuming those are recent SS models).

Different power amps driven by the same preamp, in this case the SR8012, will naturally require different vol dial position to achieve the same speaker output level unless their gains are the same. Keep in mind 3 dB high in vol represents 2x higher in power output.

If the SR8012 sounds great to you at vol 60 (that's 38 dB below maximum or 20 dB below THX ref post Audyssey run), then you have enough power and ample headroom for your speakers without the monoblocks. You can add 2x 1,000 watt McIntosh power amp and you may not even hear a difference if level matched. You will obviously "see" the difference though..

For different/better sound quality, you should focus on the recording quality of the source media, speakers, room acoustics, and/or EQ, manually to your taste, or try auto EQ for smoother bass response.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
What pre-amp did the store use to show "30%" volume? Does it use the same volume scale as your Marantz?

As to your comparison to the Marantz with/without the Bel Canto amps, if the volume levels read the same before/after for same level either you lucked out with gains being same or did you calibrate? Did you run Audyssey? Use an spl meter? There are two volume scales on your Marantz, see this article from Denon (sister company but same applies) https://denon.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/136/~/relative-and-absolute-volume-ranges
 
N

niku

Audiophyte
Dear all,
After A/B test with and without Bel Canto REF1000M, all set to stereo mode. with the volume 60% ~ 70%+, I do hear the difference. The added Amplifier DO makes the difference ! Sounds fuller than without the amp.
Here are what I learned:
*. Source before the Pre-Amp makes the difference if I want to get better sound quality at 30% volume.
*. May be a better Pre-Amp device will also make the difference. ( demo used: McIntosh C52 )
*. DTS Neural:X mode of marantz sr8012 seems make the most out of the same sound source. with/without the added amp.
*. B&W 702s2 is good, but compare to the its 800 series, may be that is the 30% difference :-(
(demo used B&W 800 series.)
*. May be further cable upgrades will enhance the quality a little bit.
Really appreciate all your quick inputs !.. That is the best "Amplifier" I ever get in my life, really.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Sorry, please clarify:
You demoed the 800 series, not the 700?
But you bought the 700, and expected it to perform the same?
 
N

niku

Audiophyte
Hahaha, yes, I was trying to achieve that level from a economical way.
But I had high hope on the Bel Canto REF1000m.
I guess I do not know the difference of the speakers and many other things.
I guess will try to enhance my sound source from now before upgrade the speaker to 800 series level.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
You should have spent more on speakers than amps/pre-pros perhaps. I still doubt you've done a valid comparison myself as you have not explained even how you set things up and you're still talking about percentages of volume whatever that means. Please don't buy stupid silly cables from the likes of Audioquest, Nordost, MIT, Tara, etc. Good luck in any case.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
In a demo room of bestbuy, they are using two Mcintosh monoblocks driving the B&W speakers, the volume
only turned up to 30%, but the sound quality is wonderfully clear and fully.
There is an EASY trick to achieving that WITHOUT adding any AMPS or Bi-amping.

You can actually beat the McIntosh's "30% volume".

All you have to do is increase all the Speaker Channel Levels (trims) to +9.0dB and I guarantee you that your Master Volume will only need to be turned up 20%.

Guarantee or your money back. :D
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
There is an EASY trick to achieving that WITHOUT adding any AMPS or Bi-amping.

You can actually beat the McIntosh's "30% volume".

All you have to do is increase all the Speaker Channel Levels (trims) to +9.0dB and I guarantee you that your Master Volume will only need to be turned up 20%.

Guarantee or your money back. :D
Tricks of the trade? ;)
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Hahaha, yes, I was trying to achieve that level from a economical way.
But I had high hope on the Bel Canto REF1000m.
I guess I do not know the difference of the speakers and many other things.
I guess will try to enhance my sound source from now before upgrade the speaker to 800 series level.
Just turn the knob to 60% or whatever setting sounds good, and enjoy!

You are over-thinking this, and you are making mistakes in your thought process too.
 

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