Marantz SR7000 preout confusion

[Tundem]

Hi,
Yes, another newb hoping to get help with system hookups, thank you in advance.
Marantz sr7000
Marantz EQ 515
Psb Imagine T
Psb sub 450
Toslink digital in from Googlecast wifi connection to spotify

Music listening only, not hooked up to TV.

I have been listening to this setup with just the towers for the last few months and recently bought the EQ and sub. I am not sure how to hook up the equalizer and sub and that is what I am requesting help with. Why do I want to hooked up an EQ in the first place? Mostly to relive the old days of moving levers, distorting the sound to my hearing preference, and to enjoy the moving lights. I thought the sub would fill in the lows the towers don't provide. This receiver does not have tape labeled "Preouts" just tape outs and in's. There is a 6channel pre out section with a 6channel In section just above it. I am hoping to keep the Toslink digital input (currently connected to Dig 5)

Which ports would I connect the eq and sub to, and would those connections still work with the Toslink Dig 5 input?
Thanks
Tod

 

[Pogre]

there's a preout labeled "subwoofer" on that panel. the eq I'm not sure about. I've never messed with one.

 

[Tundem]

Thanks, I guess that one is pretty easy. The eq hookup is the question . . .

 

[slipperybidness]

Thanks, I guess that one is pretty easy. The eq hookup is the question . . .

Yeah, modern AVRs don't usually have a true tape loop, and they just really are not designed to be used with an out-board EQ. You have the built in room correction, and you may be able to tweak that, but not the same as physical sliders.

Seems that for modern AVRs, you have to insert the EQ between the pre-amp out and the amp-in (if you happen to have that option).

 

[Pogre]

Thanks, I guess that one is pretty easy. The eq hookup is the question . . .

apologies. I must have misread the question.

Which ports would I connect the eq and sub to, and would those connections still work with the Toslink Dig 5 input?

 

[Tundem]

Yeah, modern AVRs don't usually have a true tape loop, and they just really are not designed to be used with an out-board EQ. You have the built in room correction, and you may be able to tweak that, but not the same as physical sliders.

Seems that for modern AVRs, you have to insert the EQ between the pre-amp out and the amp-in (if you happen to have that option).

If I do place the eq between the pre out and pre ins (see attatched photos) would that send all played sound through the eq and then back out to the amp portion of the reciever, including the sub?

 

[TLS Guy]

If I do place the eq between the pre out and pre ins (see attatched photos) would that send all played sound through the eq and then back out to the amp portion of the reciever, including the sub?

Those preouts, and inputs can NOT be used as a loop. That is not the same thing as an input going to a preout, that is the cut off from the amp to be returned to the input as a loop. A tape monitor loop which is what you need for the equalizer is a totally different animal.

You can't use an external equalizer with that receiver unless you use external amplification, even then there is no way to have the equalizer Eq the sub without a mixer.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Those preouts, and inputs can NOT be used as a loop. That is not the same thing as an input going to a preout, that is the cut off from the amp to be returned to the input as a loop. A tape monitor loop which is what you need for the equalizer is a totally different animal.

100% Agreed. Some more modern AVRs feature in hardware EQ (and/or PEQ) functions which you could use, but I'm guessing yours older model doesn't have these.

You can't use an external equalizer with that receiver unless you use external amplification, even then there is no way to have the equalizer Eq the sub without a mixer.

Since Sub is active - it has it's own amp - you could put EQ between your receiver subwoofer pre-out and LFE input and "mess" with EQ sliders, but it would only be useful if actually measure subwoofer response in your room and adjust EQ (down only) to try to fix some of room mode issues.
But this would better be achieved with PEQ like MiniDSP

 

[Tundem]

Those preouts, and inputs can NOT be used as a loop. That is not the same thing as an input going to a preout, that is the cut off from the amp to be returned to the input as a loop. A tape monitor loop which is what you need for the equalizer is a totally different animal.

You can't use an external equalizer with that receiver unless you use external amplification, even then there is no way to have the equalizer Eq the sub without a mixer.

Thanks for the info, that's what I was afraid of . . . so that leaves me running just the towers and sub. Could I find a amp similarly priced that would allow for what i want to do?

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for the info, that's what I was afraid of . . . so that leaves me running just the towers and sub. Could I find a amp similarly priced that would allow for what i want to do?

Not unless you want to go vintage from the age of tape.

You need to understand the whole purpose of a tape loop. It was to select an input record it and listen off the playback head of three head machines. Most domestic recorders had heads that were record and playback, so you could not off tape monitor anyway. Few used the tape loop for what it was designed for. It was to spot problems in recording such as fowled head or tape saturation so a whole recording was not ruined.

This is a picture of the tape path of one of my tape machines. All my recorders have at least thee heads. This is the tape path of my Revox A700.

The head on the far left the erase head which wipes the tape clean. The middle head is the record head and receives the signal form the tape out with Eq and record bias added. The head adjacent on the right is the playback head. This sends the signal from the tape after EQ back into the preamp section via the tape in, so the tape can be listened to as it is being recorded.

This ingenious tape loop system came to be used for the insertion of all kinds of equalizers and processors. However once tape machines, especially the three head variety became the preserve of vintage buffs and archivists, the tape loop disappeared with the tape machines.

You can only use equalizers now if you have one of two conditions.

1. Separate pre amp and power amp. Even then the sub will not be equalized unless you connect the preamp to the power amp via a mixer and connect the sub out from the pre amp to the mixer as well.

2. If you have a tape switch bus connected to the system you can equalize analog signals only between the switch bus and the preamp, integrated amp or receiver.

 

[Tundem]

Not unless you want to go vintage from the age of tape.

You need to understand the whole purpose of a tape loop. It was to select an input record it and listen off the playback head of three head machines. Most domestic recorders had heads that were record and playback, so you could not off tape monitor anyway. Few used the tape loop for what it was designed for. It was to spot problems in recording such as fowled head or tape saturation so a whole recording was not ruined.

This is a picture of the tape path of one of my tape machines. All my recorders have at least thee heads. This is the tape path of my Revox A700.

The head on the far left the erase head which wipes the tape clean. The middle head is the record head and receives the signal form the tape out with Eq and record bias added. The head adjacent on the right is the playback head. This sends the signal from the tape after EQ back into the preamp section via the tape in, so the tape can be listened to as it is being recorded.

This ingenious tape loop system came to be used for the insertion of all kinds of equalizers and processors. However once tape machines, especially the three head variety became the preserve of vintage buffs and archivists, the tape loop disappeared with the tape machines.

You can only use equalizers now if you have one of two conditions.

1. Separate pre amp and power amp. Even then the sub will not be equalized unless you connect the preamp to the power amp via a mixer and connect the sub out from the pre amp to the mixer as well.

2. If you have a tape switch bus connected to the system you can equalize analog signals only between the switch bus and the preamp, integrated amp or receiver.

 

[Tundem]

Wow, so much I don't know. So, if what I am after is just better sound quality and better soundstage, then the equalizer is pointless. I suppose my system weaklink is the spotify-digital wifi link via googlecast. Maybe I should work on that end. And if i just must have the dancing lights on the eq, then I must add an amp, what amp would you suggest on the ebay market that would compliment this system?

 

[lovinthehd]

Your current amp is likely just fine. Spotify can be a good source, whether your app/link works well or not hard to know. Speakers and room are where most of the magic lie for better sound quality and soundstage; might want to make sure your speakers have been optimally positioned and think about room acoustics first before chasing an amp. If you want flashy lights get one of these and rock out in time with the music

 

[Tundem]

Thanks for the help everyone!
Tod

 

[TLS Guy]

Wow, so much I don't know. So, if what I am after is just better sound quality and better soundstage, then the equalizer is pointless. I suppose my system weaklink is the spotify-digital wifi link via googlecast. Maybe I should work on that end. And if i just must have the dancing lights on the eq, then I must add an amp, what amp would you suggest on the ebay market that would compliment this system?

I would forget trying to use an octave equalizer with modern equipment. Equalizing the digital signals will actually require two equalizers if you want to Eq the sub as well without sending the bass to your main speakers.

I have been a great believer in Googlecasting until I recently had a wake up call. I have been a proponent that bits are bits. However I was recently researching the update to the Harrison and Harrison organ in Kings College Cambridge. I had it up on my windows 10 laptop. It was part of the inaugural concert of the refurbished organ last September. Since I had it up I Googlecasted it. Everyone was extolling this refurbishment saying its character was preserved but it now had a brighter sound.

So I casted the YouTube HD clip of a Healey Willan organ sonata. I was most unimpressed. I thought they had mucked it up. The bass was thick and the high principals dull.

So just to make certain, I played it via my HTPC, built to exacting standards. The result was totally different. The organ sounded absolutely magnificent as one and all have proclaimed. The difference was in no way subtle or slight, but glaringly obvious. Why this is, I have no idea. I will now be watching the sound from Chromecasting with great attention and a jaundiced eye.

I suspect even in the digital domain there are no cheap shortcuts, and superior well built equipment is more likely to win out.

The organ in Kings College Cambridge was a shinning star in the broadcasts this Christmas season and sounded marvelous accompanying the 16 boys and 14 lay clerks as proscribed by King Henry VI in the fifteenth century. He was the founder of Kings College Cambridge and Eaton School at Windsor.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Mark, it's possible that the music that you were playing with Google cast was not in format supported and was hastily re-compressed to format (codec) which chromecast supports natively. It goes without saying that your pc could handle much more variety of codecs.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Cast

 

[Tundem]

I would forget trying to use an octave equalizer with modern equipment. Equalizing the digital signals will actually require two equalizers if you want to Eq the sub as well without sending the bass to your main speakers.

I have been a great believer in Googlecasting until I recently had a wake up call. I have been a proponent that bits are bits. However I was recently researching the update to the Harrison and Harrison organ in Kings College Cambridge. I had it up on my windows 10 laptop. It was part of the inaugural concert of the refurbished organ last September. Since I had it up I Googlecasted it. Everyone was extolling this refurbishment saying its character was preserved but it now had a brighter sound.

So I casted the YouTube HD clip of a Healey Willan organ sonata. I was most unimpressed. I thought they had mucked it up. The bass was thick and the high principals dull.

So just to make certain, I played it via my HTPC, built to exacting standards. The result was totally different. The organ sounded absolutely magnificent as one and all have proclaimed. The difference was in no way subtle or slight, but glaringly obvious. Why this is, I have no idea. I will now be watching the sound from Chromecasting with great attention and a jaundiced eye.

I suspect even in the digital domain there are no cheap shortcuts, and superior well built equipment is more likely to win out.

The organ in Kings College Cambridge was a shinning star in the broadcasts this Christmas season and sounded marvelous accompanying the 16 boys and 14 lay clerks as proscribed by King Henry VI in the fifteenth century. He was the founder of Kings College Cambridge and Eaton School at Windsor.

 

[Tundem]

To keep the thread moving then, whats a better way to get the spotify on my phone wireless to my Marantz sr7000?

 

[TLS Guy]

Mark, it's possible that the music that you were playing with Google cast was not in format supported and was hastily re-compressed to format (codec) which chromecast supports natively. It goes without saying that your pc could handle much more variety of codecs.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Cast

I suspect the original recording was made by the BBC, so I suspect you are likely correct. So I have to be suspicious of Chromecast now. Luckily I have an HTPC at both our residencies now, so I can use Chromecast minimally.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

What phone do you have?