Marantz SR4002

[audiolover]

I am considering purchasing this receiver and also a Blu Ray player. My question is will this receiver output audio through HDMI for the latest formats of Dolby True HD and DTS Master audio or will I have to use the 7.1 ch analog outs? I know the receiver has HDMI but I am not sure if it is the correct version or not. Please help with this confusion.

 

[Seth=L]

The SR 4002 can decode 7.1 LPCM over HDMI. This means that the Blu-ray player will need to convert Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, and DTS-HD to LPCM before outputing it over HDMI.

It will sound just the same as if you had bitstreamed the raw Dolby TrueHD, Plus, or DTS-HD to a newer or higher model Marantz that has HDMI 1.3 repeating architecture (which would accept the raw Dolby TrueHD, Plus, or DTS-HD).

The audio processes that occur between the Blu-ray and the output to your speakers is simply this: The raw bitstream is read from the disk and converted to a usable format (PCM) which is then converted to analog (the only way an amplifier can work) by using the digital audio converters of the receiver or Blu-ray player. If you used the 7.1 analog outputs on a Blu-ray player the raw bitstream and PCM would be processed inside of it. If you had a newer receiver the raw bitstream would go straight out of the Blu-ray player to the receiver where both processes would occur. In the case of the 4002 the process to convert the raw bitstream occurs inside the Blu-ray player, and sends out a digital signal as PCM to the receiver where it will then be converted to analog.

Another great thing about having the player decode the raw bitstream and sending out multichannel PCM is that you are still going to be able to add any digital post processing the receiver has to offer (bass management, certain digital signal processing modes). If you where to use the 7.1 analog outputs of a Blu-ray player you would lose the ability to use those features, thus lose potential sound quality.

 

[audiolover]

So are you saying that I need to get a player that decodes the formats? If so, what reasonably priced(under $500) player do you suggest? Thanks

 

[Seth=L]

Most all current ones do. I will only recommend one player, Playstation 3. It's the fastest loading, receives the most updates (and in the event that software goes through major changes, will most likely be the first player updated to accept those changes. It's also one of the best upscaling players (Blu-ray or even a dedicated upscaling DVD player) on the market for $399.

 

[Midcow2]

Seth gave a great answer! for DVD -PS3 or Panaosonic

So are you saying that I need to get a player that decodes the formats? If so, what reasonably priced(under $500) player do you suggest? Thanks

Do you like games at all? If so the PS3 is a very good choice ( I have one ). The Panosonic DMP-BD30K is good ( I have one) and now you cab get for as low as $207. There are now newer models ,example DMP-BD50K.

http://www.fotoconnection.com/p84370-panasonic-dmp-bd30k-blu-ray-disc-player-black.html

A lot of people like OPPO DVD players.

Good Luck!

MidCow2

P.S.- Enjoy your new Marantz

 

[zumbo]

On top of the great information given, I would like to recommend getting a Yamaha or Denon receiver that decodes all the new formats. Just a recommendation.

If you post your receiver budget/needs, we all can give other options.

Yamaha 663 and up.

Denon 1909 and up.

 

[zumbo]

PM sent. Check your PM.

 

[Seth=L]

On top of the great information given, I would like to recommend getting a Yamaha or Denon receiver that decodes all the new formats. Just a recommendation.

If you post your receiver budget/needs, we all can give other options.

Yamaha 663 and up.

Denon 1909 and up.

But the question is...why would anyone need a receiver that decodes the formats if all the players do it internally?

 

[zumbo]

But the question is...why would anyone need a receiver that decodes the formats if all the players do it internally?

Uh, because all of them don't.

Pretty bad piece of information you posted there Seth.

 

[zumbo]

Seth=L:
You are aware that your player doesn't decode, right?

EDIT: My bad, I was looking at Midcow's player.

 

[Seth=L]

Seth=L:
You are aware that your player doesn't decode, right?

The PS3 decodes Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD, and Dolby Digital Plus internally and converts it up to 7.1 LPCM (depending on the raw bitstream). It can only be output as high resolution LPCM over HDMI. If you use optical it will down convert it to legacy Dolby Digital and DTS formats, analog downmixes to 2 channel. This is only for the PS3. Most all Blu-ray players I've seen lately have at a minimum Dolby TrueHD and Plus available for internal decoding (conversion to LPCM) and many also have DTS-HD or at least the capability to accept firmware updates that will allow it to be decoded.

This guy explains it better...

"Hi, Mark,

The PS3 has always supported Dolby TrueHD, since it was first launched. The way it supports Dolby TrueHD is by expanding it to full uncompressed PCM format, and sending that PCM signal to a receiver or processor over the HDMI cable. You can think of Dolby TrueHD as equivalent to a "zip" file on a PC or a "StuffIt" file on a Mac. Dolby TrueHD takes an original multi-channel PCM signal as input, and "zips" it into a smaller file using the TrueHD lossless codec. Just as a zip file does not lose any of the information in the document it compressed, so Dolby TrueHD does not lose any of the sonic information in the original PCM file when it compresses it.

When the PS3 "unzips" the file, it is simply restoring the original multi-channel PCM music file to its original format. The only thing the PS3 doesn't do with TrueHD is allow you to "bitstream" the Dolby TrueHD signal (and light up the "Dolby TrueHD" light on your receiver). Sonically the original PCM file that is extracted from the TrueHD signal by the PS3 should be absolutely identical to the original, so there's really no loss involved in doing it the way the PS3 does it.

But the PS3 initially did NOT fully support the DTS version of lossless multi-channel, known as DTS-HD Master Audio. In its first few firmware revisions, the PS3 could only support the so-called "core" portion of the DTS-HD track (which is not lossless). As of April 2008, this was corrected by firmware revision 2.3 for the PS3. With this firmware upgrade, the PS3 now also supports DTS-HD Master Audio (and DTS-HD High Resolution Audio) the same way it supports Dolby TrueHD - by expanding it to PCM and sending the multi-channel PCM signal over HDMI to a compatible receiver or surround sound processor.

If you prefer a player that can bitstream the DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD formats (although technically there should be no sonic advantage in doing so), then consider the Panasonic DMP-BD30, Panasonic DMP-BD50 or the brand new Sony BDP-S350 that just began shipping this week.

Hope that helps.

-Chris"

 

[zumbo]

The PS3 decodes Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD, and Dolby Digital Plus internally and converts it up to 7.1 LPCM (depending on the raw bitstream). It can only be output as high resolution LPCM over HDMI. If you use optical it will down convert it to legacy Dolby Digital and DTS formats, analog downmixes to 2 channel. This is only for the PS3. Most all Blu-ray players I've seen lately have at a minimum Dolby TrueHD and Plus available for internal decoding (conversion to LPCM) and many also have DTS-HD or at least the capability to accept firmware updates that will allow it to be decoded.

I was looking at Micow's panny. My bad.

However, not all players decode.

And, not all receivers will accept LPCM via HDMI.

 

[zumbo]

I tried shortcuts with my system.

I tried to save money being slick.

There is just no reason to purchase outdated equipment at this time, unless one plans to replace the equipment in the very near future.

It's like my buddy trying to beat the system by working for cash money, and not paying taxes. Sooner or later, he is going to wish he would've just went with the system.

 

[Seth=L]

I was looking at Micow's panny. My bad.

However, not all players decode.

No, not all. Midcow's Panasonic doesn't, that's correct. But even the cheapest of cheapies (new ones) are doing Dolby TrueHD and Plus internally.

http://www.blu-ray.com/players/

And, not all receivers will accept LPCM via HDMI.

The Marantz SR 4002 does.

 

[zumbo]

And, not all receivers will accept LPCM via HDMI.

Looking at my next post, it may be fact that all players will send the new formats LPCM. Don't quote me on this.

The Marantz SR 4002 does.

That solves that issue. Good work.

 

[zumbo]

List of players from another thread. Some newer players are missing, but a good list.

DD "legacy", DTS "legacy", and LPCM are not included in the chart since player support is mandatory for all BD players.

Special Cases:
(F) Player requires a firmware update to enable this codec.
(L) Player outputs LFE channel -5db lower than normal when outputting PCM over HDMI (see owner's threads)
(LF) Player had "LFE bug" as (L) above. Issue was resolved with firmware update.
(U) Player can be upgraded to BD2.0 (exact method is unclear).
(H) Codec decoding is limited to HDMI only. For analog output DD or DTS is used instead.
(2) Codec decoding is limited to 2 channels (stereo) only.
(*) Output is limited to 48KHz/24bit due to hardware limitation.





From the AVS sticky
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=980672

Bonus thread for those who give a crap
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=996843

 

[Seth=L]

That should help the OP select his first Blu-ray player. So as you can see in the chart the PS3 decodes all internally, what an excellent machine.