Marantz NR1200 review

T

TankTop5

Full Audioholic
Thank you, now I seem to remember you mentioned the Dyn Spec 40 before, on another thread I guess. Sorry about you 3808, but I think that's more luck than a reflection of Denon AVR's reliability. My very old 3805 and 4308 were in great conditions when I sold one and gave one away, both are still in top shape even now.

So if it form follows functions is not the factor here, then I assume you are still open to considering a 7.1 AVR. You can get a AVR-X3500H for probably less than $699 brand new with a 3 year warranty or Marantz SR5013 for less if you search hard. Or consider Accessories4less.com, for even less dollars.

Talk about "an amp in there", both 7.1 AVRs have stronger power supply (for two channel use) and amps in it than the NR1200 for sure. An AVR is an AVR, 2,5,7 through 13.1 channel or not. The AVR-X3400H (X3500H should be the same except it is more up to date in features) is a fantastic sounding little AVR, as good as my much more expensive and powerful separates when used below its limits.

I know it makes a lot of sense to use a 2.1 AVR for 2.1 use and a 5.1 AVR for 5.1 use. I suggested the 7.1 versions because of the fantastic value of the one year outdated models. This seems to happen only with 7.1, and now may be 9.1 models too, because of their sales volume, so value shoppers who are practically minded can take advantage of this fact/phenomena.

I read the Stereophile review on the Special 40, and I definitely wouldn't use any slim line avrs, not even the NR1200 to drive them except in a small room sitting within 8 feet +/- and listen at well below reference level. The 7.1 AVRs would at least give you a couple of dB more headroom, more for transient peaks. Such medium low efficient 6 ohm nominal speakers are not designed to play very loud to begin with, but it would still be a shame to match them with a 75 W rated slim line 2.1 receiver that has power consumption rated 180 W soak and wet. Power consumption means little, but could be a good indicator if used to compare D&M class AB amps.
I think I’m leaning toward the 5013, funny thing is you can find it cheaper than the X3500. If I can get it with 3 year warranty new for under $600 I may buy my wife a couple bottles of wine!

I sit just over 12’ away from the speakers, definitely need a solid amp for these Dyn’s.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
I think I’m leaning toward the 5013, funny thing is you can find it cheaper than the X3500. If I can get it with 3 year warranty new for under $600 I may buy my wife a couple bottles of wine!

I sit just over 12’ away from the speakers, definitely need a solid amp for these Dyn’s.
Good choice, it should be cheaper than the Denon because the x3500h (7.1) is in between the 5013 and 6013 (9.1) whereas the x3600h (upgraded to 9.1) would be directly comparable to the 6014.

The comparable models are virtually the same if one disregards Marantz's HDAM (not in the slim line models except the NR1200 that appears to have it for the phono input, that sounds weird, I need to dig in deeper for more info..)
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic General
Cost. I want high quality, it’s much more feasible to build a 2 ch system than a multi ch system for me and many people.
Todays market wants equipment to enjoy stereo and surround sound. From 1989 to 2004 my advertising agency represented 2 midwestern audio/video retail chains. In that period the market for audio and the market for video (VCRs) became integrated via the AVR and Multi-channel Prepro, which destroyed stereo equipment sales; and, today, with their multi-channel equipment, folks want stereo and multi-channel music to enjoy from their home theater systems. The conundrum is music producers resist multi-channel and therefore stereo music still rules and causes an impression that stereo equipment is desired. That's what is not true and Marantz of all marketers should know that. In fact, now because multi-channel music is seen as having more breadth and depth than stereo, and is causing folks who become aware of it to seek it out, Marantz and others introducing stereo equipment at this time makes no sense at all.
 
T

TankTop5

Full Audioholic
Todays market wants equipment to enjoy stereo and surround sound. From 1989 to 2004 my advertising agency represented 2 midwestern audio/video retail chains. In that period the market for audio and the market for video (VCRs) became integrated via the AVR and Multi-channel Prepro, which destroyed stereo equipment sales; and, today, with their multi-channel equipment, folks want stereo and multi-channel music to enjoy from their home theater systems. The conundrum is music producers resist multi-channel and therefore stereo music still rules and causes an impression that stereo equipment is desired. That's what is not true and Marantz of all marketers should know that. In fact, now because multi-channel music is seen as having more breadth and depth than stereo, and is causing folks who become aware of it to seek it out, Marantz and others introducing stereo equipment at this time makes no sense at all.
Interesting perspective, thanks.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
I think I’m leaning toward the 5013, funny thing is you can find it cheaper than the X3500. If I can get it with 3 year warranty new for under $600 I may buy my wife a couple bottles of wine!

I sit just over 12’ away from the speakers, definitely need a solid amp for these Dyn’s.
The 5013 does not appear to have the two separately adjustable sub pre-outs (the so-called SubEQ feature even tho it only sets delay/level for two, it is EQd by XT32). Onkyo did this with a few avrs, had XT32 but not the SubEQ feature.....or I'm missing it in the manual. If that feature matters to you (it can be nice to have, tho)

@PENG I had the 3808, TankTop5's failed Denon was a 1910.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Todays market wants equipment to enjoy stereo and surround sound. From 1989 to 2004 my advertising agency represented 2 midwestern audio/video retail chains. In that period the market for audio and the market for video (VCRs) became integrated via the AVR and Multi-channel Prepro, which destroyed stereo equipment sales; and, today, with their multi-channel equipment, folks want stereo and multi-channel music to enjoy from their home theater systems. The conundrum is music producers resist multi-channel and therefore stereo music still rules and causes an impression that stereo equipment is desired. That's what is not true and Marantz of all marketers should know that. In fact, now because multi-channel music is seen as having more breadth and depth than stereo, and is causing folks who become aware of it to seek it out, Marantz and others introducing stereo equipment at this time makes no sense at all.
Agreed, but there are probably a lot of people who for whatever reasons, only want two channels. Some of them also want subwoofer output(s) with bass management or even DRC, plus some basic video features. Even for them, I assume they would find the likes of NR1200 disappointing if they look at detailed specifications and see the following:

- 75 W, 2 channel drive, 20,20,000 Hz, 0.08% distortions, 8 Ohm
- 150 W, 1 channel drive, 1 kHz, 10% distortions, 6 Ohm

That kind of specs doesn't inspire confidence does it? So, may be for slightly different reasons than yours, such new products does not make sense to me either, but ommv for sure.
 
T

TankTop5

Full Audioholic
@TankTop5 have you checked out the Outlaw 2160 ?
Probably going with an AVR as I want room correction, subwoofer control and I want to be able to cross over my mains. Plus I’d love a couple pre programmed listening modes, maybe one with no sub for my wife but I don’t want to get greedy.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Probably going with an AVR as I want room correction, subwoofer control and I want to be able to cross over my mains. Plus I’d love a couple pre programmed listening modes, maybe one with no sub for my wife but I don’t want to get greedy.
This receiver has analog bass management. Does not have hdmi. Fairly manual afaik. Just a thought for you.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic General
Agreed, but there are probably a lot of people who for whatever reasons, only want two channels. Some of them also want subwoofer output(s) with bass management or even DRC, plus some basic video features. Even for them, I assume they would find the likes of NR1200 disappointing if they look at detailed specifications and see the following:

- 75 W, 2 channel drive, 20,20,000 Hz, 0.08% distortions, 8 Ohm
- 150 W, 1 channel drive, 1 kHz, 10% distortions, 6 Ohm

That kind of specs doesn't inspire confidence does it? So, may be for slightly different reasons than yours, such new products does not make sense to me either, but ommv for sure.
This is just perception but perhaps Marantz sees todays turntable purchasers pairing their TTs to vintage Marantz receivers like the Classic 2270 and think that a new Marantz could occupy the space of the vintage piece.
 
T

TankTop5

Full Audioholic
Good choice, it should be cheaper than the Denon because the x3500h (7.1) is in between the 5013 and 6013 (9.1) whereas the x3600h (upgraded to 9.1) would be directly comparable to the 6014.

The comparable models are virtually the same if one disregards Marantz's HDAM (not in the slim line models except the NR1200 that appears to have it for the phono input, that sounds weird, I need to dig in deeper for more info..)
Where do you think the Yamaha RX-A680/780/880 line up with the Denon X3500 and Marantz 5013/6013?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
This is just perception but perhaps Marantz sees todays turntable purchasers pairing their TTs to vintage Marantz receivers like the Classic 2270 and think that a new Marantz could occupy the space of the vintage piece.
I'd rather have a modern avr over having my old 2270 back.....
 
E

EBN

Enthusiast
Where do you think the Yamaha RX-A680/780/880 line up with the Denon X3500 and Marantz 5013/6013?
Not Peng, but will comment shortly.

Look for A860 Audioholics review with measurements, it was not as good as Denon X3300W which was mentioned in that review too. So we can assume A880 is not going to offer as good performance as X3500H. Poor performance with lower 4ohm loads, pre out voltage poor, internals likely still worse than in 13years old RX-V serie receiver 659 which was mentioned in the A860 review, read it!

RX-A680 is Aventage batched version of RX-V585. Total rip off with poorest YPAO version!

RX-A780 is basically same machine as RX-V685 with higher price tag and Aventage batch. You can compare specs which are almost identical and from behind they are very much same. Sure you get the middle foot and extra warranty, but compare the prices of these two carefully.

Marantz SR5013 is very similar to sister company´s model Denon X2500H with preouts though. It has the Audussey MultEQ XT which is useless! Someone posted graph comparing XT vs XT32 and the first one didn´t do much of any correction at low frequencies where it´s needed most often, rather it did in the higher freqs where most people don´t want correction. XT32 did very much the opposite!!

So this leads to.. Pick X3500H or SR 6013 if you want to have good rc-software and great measured performance for the low bucks. SR6013 has the extra channels and 11.2 processing which means it is future proof (up to 7.2.4 system possible). Never say never with this hobby as things can change fast!
 
Zildjianmeister

Zildjianmeister

Audioholic Intern
I have a very old Yamaha rxv992 which I'm never getting rid of :)

Seeing all the measurements, I think they are great at showing what the device is capable of. However, in real world use a lot of us I suspect may not run into any of these issues. I posted a link in another thread of the review of the Yamaha rxa870 done by AV Nirvana. They paired it with the SVS Ultra towers and they are no slouch.
 
S

Sam Ash

Audioholic Intern
So any real world reviews of the NR1200 ?

75w/channel is a bit less, should have been at least 100W/ch with both channels being driven @ 8 ohms.

Can it drive 4 ohm speakers ?
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic General
I do not think the NR 1200 has much of a market other than those who are now into vinyl and are using vintage stereo receivers for TT amplification, which have no means to manage a subwoofer. I do think the unit's bass management is totally ideal, since there's no downside to running mains to full frequency; and, who knows, the unit may actually be setting output of both mains and sub to the selected crossover. But the bottom line is this amp does not have the appeal of a Marantz 2270; and, for folks not into the vinyl thing, they pretty much have moved on to multi-channel to power audio and video desires.
 
S

Sam Ash

Audioholic Intern
I am looking at it as a sensible sound-bar alternative for my TV. Having proper stereo separation would definitely provide better imaging and the possibility of running a dedicated sub in conjunction with bookshelves is attractive.
 
S

Sam Ash

Audioholic Intern
I presume that it can drive 4 ohm speakers ... anyone here that has tried that ?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
I presume that it can drive 4 ohm speakers ... anyone here that has tried that ?
I repeat, any such reasonably well build receivers or amplifiers can drive 4 ohm speakers as long as you understand the output power limit of the unit.

For example:

An amp specified for 60 W into 8 ohms or 4 ohms, 20-20,000 Hz 0.08% THD+N would be considered as 4 ohm capable.

An amp specified, 150 W into 8 ohms, without a 4 ohm rating, 20-20,000 Hz 0.08% THD+N would be able to do at least 75 W into 4 ohm as well, most likely more..

Most popular brands such as D&M, Sony, Yamaha, Onkyo, Pioneer, NAD, Anthem, all can output more into 4 ohms than into 8 ohms, two channel driven and there are plenty of bench measurements to back up what I am saying.

To be on the safe side though, if the product does not provide an official 4 ohm rated output, assume the worse case scenario and that means de-rate the 8 ohm output by half.
 
John Parks

John Parks

Full Audioholic
@TankTop5 Hey - did you make a purchase yet? I'm sorry I am late to this thread, but the Yamaha R-N803 may have all the features you are looking for and on the cheap (especially at Accessories4less: https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/yamrn803bl/yamaha-r-n803-2-ch-x-100-watts-networking-stereo-receiver/1.html ). It has the same amplification internals as the A-S801 integrated (which I have and love and which Gene tested with favorable results: https://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/yamaha-a-s801-amplifier-review ) so we are looking at a really solid 100wpc. I just may purchase one so I can play around with WPAO and controlling all the settings through Yamaha's app...
 

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