Marantz acting up; help me choose a processor

[wlmmn]

So my Marantz SR6003 I bought as a refurb some years ago is having some serious HDMI dropout issues; it’s doing it every three seconds and I’ve gone through a very thorough troubleshooting process and determined it’s the Marantz. It’s been bad before but not like this. And the authorized Marantz repair center where I live just closed down, and after having taken it in a year ago when it was having the same problems mean I’m kinda done dealing with it, and alas I’m in the market for a processor. I have an Emotiva XPA-5 amp now, so no need for a receiver anymore.
Here’s what I’m looking for in a processor, and what I don’t need:

LOOKING FOR:

• Quality audio DACs, audio processors
• DTS-HD and Dolby TRUE-HD decoders, I’m assuming they all pretty much have those now
• Decent video processing, although I may just set it to THROUGH; the Oppo BDP- 93 seems to do a good job
• Ability to rename inputs for the front display
• HDMI ins (at least 3) and outs
• Headphone input
• Legacy audio/video support (composite video, sometimes I hook up my SNES and NES; S-Video would be nice but not a deal-breaker)
• Analog audio ins (at least one pair for my turntable, doesn’t need to be PHONO, I already have a separate phono preamp)
• Preferably XLR audio outs to an amp, although RCA outs is fine and not a dealbreaker
• Decently designed remote with decent range (it would be nice but it’s not a dealbreaker since I suppose I could get a universal remote; I hated the Marantz’s limited remote range, you had to point RIGHT AT THE FRONT OF THE THING)
• Fairly intuitive GUI for independent speaker level, distance, size, and crossover setup; doesn’t need to look pretty though
• Corrective delays for lip sync
• Less than 10” high
• Less than 18” wide
• Budget: less than $2,000

I DON’T NEED:

• Any corrective EQ
• Any networking
• Any zones
• Any internet connectivity at all, as long as I have a USB input to install firmware updates
• TOSlink, Coaxial or component
• An amp section; already got that covered (except for a built-in amp for the headphone input)

All I’m using this for is to accept my Oppo BDP-93 that I use for Blu-Ray, DVD, SACD, and DVD-A playback (all through HDMI, I have my SACD output set to DSD so I never felt the need for analog connectivity for SACD) , also my PS3 connected via HDMI, my DirecTV box via HDMI, and my turntable via analog RCA, all the video going out via one HDMI cable to my TV, with the audio outs going to my Emotiva XPA-5 amp. That’s it, really; I don’t need much bells and whistles, just performance and reliability. I’m open to any brands you guys feel are reputable.

Thanks in advance!

 

[rnatalli]

How about going with an Outlaw Audio separates setup? I believe their new processor meets your requirements above and combined with one of their amps would be a sweet setup. They have combo deals:

Outlaw AudioModel 975

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Don't buy anymore refurbished.

Call Electronic Expo, Onecall, and other places and see if they can see you the Denon 4311 for $1200 shipped.

When Electronic Expo had them in stock they sold for $1225 shipped over the phone to many members.

That is an excellent pre-pro/AVR with excellent DAC and processors.

I would also look at the Denon X4000. Electronic Expo may also give you a good deal over the phone.

 

[ImcLoud]

may be worth a look, PT-7030 Home Theater Preamp/Processor | Sherbourn Technologies has xlr outs, 10 year warranty, $100 emo bucks 40% card {worth $300 on ebay}. I have held it in my hands, it is a pretty impressive unit, I didnt get a chance to watch a movie with it, but did listen to some digital music through it and its sounded very good.. If you sell the gift card and the 40% coupon for $350 {which shouldnt be any trouble I sold me 40% card for $330 on ebay, and the gift card will do over $90} you will have a very short investment $550 and a long warranty... the closeout price are decent, I bought a pre1 from them and I am very happy with it...

 

[wlmmn]

Hmm, I've done some poking around on the internet and it's been hard finding regular consumer reviews on some of these internet-direct brands. I read things now and again like a guy thinking he's getting a great deal buying an Emotiva amp but then A/B'ing it with a Parasound amp and the Parasound comes out ahead in spades. That's great you like the Sherbourn, ImcLoud...maybe I'm a little wary of how hard it is to get much in the way of everyday consumer reviews of Emotiva and Sherbourn stuff. Also, I read up and down about how hard it is to get a response from Emotiva, although to be fair I've heard that about Marantz, too.

And another forum's user said he e-mailed Sherbourn about whether or not it could decode DSD for SACDs from the HDMI of an Oppo, which is exactly what I'd want to do, and the user said he never got a response. Something I'd like to know, that is a deal-breaker since my Marantz could do that and there's no sense in stepping back in functionality from what I had.

Sometimes the professional reviews on this site don't reflect how it is to actually live with these pieces of gear........compare audioholics' glowing review of the Emotiva UMC-1 versus the massive headaches a lot of consumers had with that unit. Heck, I even called out Andrew's review of the Oppo 103 where I said "Nowhere in his video or text review did he mention Oppo did away with the esata connection on the back. I have an esata external drive that I use ALL THE TIME with my Oppo, it's got tons of content on it and I'd hate to spend money on an Oppo that has LESS of what I'd actually use than the BDP-93 I have now. Put it back on, Oppo." So sometimes I wonder how objective this site's reviews are. I read that Sherbourn is a rebadged Emotiva processor, and being that Emotiva owns Sherbourn that's probably accurate...I'm a little leary of Emotiva's processors. Or am I being too paranoid?

Same sort of thing with the Outlaw...it's near impossible to get a hold of a review where the reviewing website wasn't just handed a unit to test, but had to actually buy
it and live with it. The only review of that ilk I could find wasn't too happy with it:

Outlaw Audio 975, the insanely expensive entry level processor | david susilo UNCENSORED

The Denon 4311 AcuDefTechGuy mentioned is a receiver, but all I need is a processor, I've already got amplification. Or is it sometimes cheaper to just buy a receiver over a processor anyway?

 

[PENG]

The Denon 4311 AcuDefTechGuy mentioned is a receiver, but all I need is a processor, I've already got amplification. Or is it sometimes cheaper to just buy a receiver over a processor anyway?

Quite often, it is to go with an AVR. If you have 5 channels of amps, the 4311 can be used to complete a 7,9 or up to 11 channel setup. You don't need it now, but if and when you do, it will be there for you. The 4311 should have no problem powering a few surround channels, even if they are 4 ohm speakers. The 4311 also has a prepro mode, though that shouldn't make much difference to sound quality.

 

[rnatalli]

IMO, the UMC-200 is a better unit than the Outlaw 975, but it doesn't handle legacy video or even have a video processor which is why I didn't recommend it. However, for the price, it's an excellent processor with full PEQ which you won't find in anything at the $600 price point. I wouldn't discount something with EQ such as Audyssey or Anthem's ARC as they often work wonders with frequencies below 80hz. I also wouldn't discount using a receiver as a processor.

 

[ImcLoud]

Hmm, I've done some poking around on the internet and it's been hard finding regular consumer reviews on some of these internet-direct brands. I read things now and again like a guy thinking he's getting a great deal buying an Emotiva amp but then A/B'ing it with a Parasound amp and the Parasound comes out ahead in spades. That's great you like the Sherbourn, ImcLoud...maybe I'm a little wary of how hard it is to get much in the way of everyday consumer reviews of Emotiva and Sherbourn stuff. Also, I read up and down about how hard it is to get a response from Emotiva, although to be fair I've heard that about Marantz, too.

And another forum's user said he e-mailed Sherbourn about whether or not it could decode DSD for SACDs from the HDMI of an Oppo, which is exactly what I'd want to do, and the user said he never got a response. Something I'd like to know, that is a deal-breaker since my Marantz could do that and there's no sense in stepping back in functionality from what I had.

Sometimes the professional reviews on this site don't reflect how it is to actually live with these pieces of gear........compare audioholics' glowing review of the Emotiva UMC-1 versus the massive headaches a lot of consumers had with that unit. Heck, I even called out Andrew's review of the Oppo 103 where I said "Nowhere in his video or text review did he mention Oppo did away with the esata connection on the back. I have an esata external drive that I use ALL THE TIME with my Oppo, it's got tons of content on it and I'd hate to spend money on an Oppo that has LESS of what I'd actually use than the BDP-93 I have now. Put it back on, Oppo." So sometimes I wonder how objective this site's reviews are. I read that Sherbourn is a rebadged Emotiva processor, and being that Emotiva owns Sherbourn that's probably accurate...I'm a little leary of Emotiva's processors. Or am I being too paranoid?

Same sort of thing with the Outlaw...it's near impossible to get a hold of a review where the reviewing website wasn't just handed a unit to test, but had to actually buy
it and live with it. The only review of that ilk I could find wasn't too happy with it:

Outlaw Audio 975, the insanely expensive entry level processor | david susilo UNCENSORED

The Denon 4311 AcuDefTechGuy mentioned is a receiver, but all I need is a processor, I've already got amplification. Or is it sometimes cheaper to just buy a receiver over a processor anyway?

The ID stuff isn't for everyone, I can personally say I own a parasound amplifier and a few emotiva amps, IMO the emotiva is a better amplifier... Can you tell a difference in sound ? between the xpa2 and the 2250? no, you can not, if you can you are a liar, lol... {not you, just talking in general}... The xpa2 does sound like it has more output though... If that makes any sense also it runs cooler, I own both amps, the xpa2 is setup with my evo's and the 2250 is in its box... I actually prefer the outlaw mono 2200s to the 2250, although I like the parasound 2100 preamp a lot...

Anyway...

As far as Emo's support, I have heard much more good than bad, and I have NEVER called them during normal business hours and not got an answer, no matter what department I want to talk to I get someone on th phone in under a minute, soooo I am not sure where that is coming from? Emo just bought sherbourn so it will still have a 10 year warranty, and the units are decent, you get more for your money... I have met the owner of EMotiva and his family twice, they are nice people, how many guys here have met the owner of Marantz, denon, pioneer, ect? I would have to be honest and say the Customer service of Emotiva is first rate...

I have owned the UMC1 {towards the end of its production} and own the umc200, I can not say a bad thing about either, I also had the xda1 and have the xda2 loved both. You will find more people that like emo than not...

With reviews I don't know what is better than being able to take the unit home for 30 days and return it if you don't like it? I trust that over any "pro" reviewer...

 

[wlmmn]

Thanks for the responses...I'll mull over all this for about a week and see what happens. In the meantime, I'm debating whether or not to send my Marantz to an unauthorized repair center (again the only authorized one closed down about a month ago) just to see if I can get it working again, maybe sell it on eBay? It's just some guy with a website that works out of his home, not too sure about that. Maybe a pawn shop will take it as is. Decisions, decisions...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The Denon 4311 AcuDefTechGuy mentioned is a receiver, but all I need is a processor, I've already got amplification. Or is it sometimes cheaper to just buy a receiver over a processor anyway?

I've compared the measurements of AVR vs. pre-pro and they all measure extremely well. In Direct mode, you can't tell the difference at all.

You can just use the processor section of the AVR. Think of the amp section of the AVR as backup just in case your ext amp dies.

But yes, if you can get an excellent AVR for cheaper than a pre-pro, then it's a good idea.

 

[wlmmn]

Think of the amp section of the AVR as backup just in case your ext amp dies.

But yes, if you can get an excellent AVR for cheaper than a pre-pro, then it's a good idea.

The "amp section as a backup" is a decent point. As far as AVRs being cheaper, yup it looks like that's the case. In this particular instance, though, the Denon 4311 is around $1200, whereas the Sherbourn PT-7030 is $899 on their website. I'd be nice to save $300, unless you think it'd be worth the extra $300 to get a Denon...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The "amp section as a backup" is a decent point. As far as AVRs being cheaper, yup it looks like that's the case. In this particular instance, though, the Denon 4311 is around $1200, whereas the Sherbourn PT-7030 is $899 on their website. I'd be nice to save $300, unless you think it'd be worth the extra $300 to get a Denon...

The Sherbourn does not have Audyssey XT32, which is worth $1K by itself (to some guys like myself).

I also don't know about possible "bugs" in that Sherbourn like past Emotiva pre-pros.

Ever since I "discovered" how amazing Audyssey Dynamic EQ is for my system (after being a Pure Direct Analog guy forever), I am 100% for Audyssey XT32 Sub EQ Dynamic EQ.

So yes, I would unequivocally get the Denon 4311 over the Sherbourn, but that's just my opinion.

The Denon also has the very nice iOS and Android Remote App, which I love and use all the time. AirPlay is great for streaming lossless audio files from my iPhone & iPad to my Denon.

A lot of people were hoping that Denon would take the amp section out of the 4311 and make a pre-pro version, which is pretty much what the Marantz pre-pro is. So you can look at it like the Marantz pre-pro is the Denon 4311 without the amp section.

So for $1200, the 4311 (Audyssey XT32, made in Japan like the Marantz pre-pro) is a BARGAIN!

 

[wlmmn]

I saw that the Denon 4311 is more expensive than the DenonX4000 even though its older...a lot of the Amazon reviews are saying the 4311 is made in Japan (like you said) and the X4000 is made in China. With the China-made Marantz problems I've had, getting a unit made in a country that has its collective $h!t together like Japan sounds like it's worth it. The fact that the older unit is still holding its value has got to mean something. Also, nit-picky me says the 4311 still has S-Video, which I can hook up my SNES to using a GameCube A/V out.

 

[RichB]

^^^
I have read that some receiver preamp puts are under powered.
is that a real concern ?

- Rich

 

[PENG]

^^^
I have read that some receiver preamp puts are under powered.
is that a real concern ?

- Rich

I read that too on forums and investigated the validity of such claims. After some power Googling and reading manuals, lab test results etc., I concluded that lots of those (some are valid concerns) are just hearsays probably started from the lack consistency/standards in the way manufactuers specify their outputs. Its a bit like power consumption, you can't compare units from different brands as they seem to adopt their own standards. As an example, if you compare the specs of the AV7005, 8003, 8801 and the 4311, 4520, there are really no meaningful difference, but as soon as you start comparing to others outside of the D&M group you will begin to see some discrepancies. I call it discrepancies, that is until I know more details about how each specify their outputs, not before.

 

[Grador]

I hooked my yamaha rx-v765 into an oscilloscope and ran a 1khz sine wave through. At 6V peak to peak I just stopped cranking it and called it a day. Was not clipped at all.

 

[panteragstk]

My onkyo is rated at 4.6v output. That should be plenty for an amp to run at full capacity. Only a long cable run could potentially cause an issue IIRC. I'll see if I can measure them when I get the time.

If a long cable run from the pre/pro/receiver to the amps is necessary then I'd grab a pre/pro with XLR outputs. The PT-7020 for only $400 on the Sherbourne site seems like a steal. I'm still trying to decide if I want one or not. Although, I'd need ARC which it doesn't have, but optical outs on a TV solves that pretty quick.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I saw that the Denon 4311 is more expensive than the DenonX4000 even though its older...a lot of the Amazon reviews are saying the 4311 is made in Japan (like you said) and the X4000 is made in China. With the China-made Marantz problems I've had, getting a unit made in a country that has its collective $h!t together like Japan sounds like it's worth it. The fact that the older unit is still holding its value has got to mean something. Also, nit-picky me says the 4311 still has S-Video, which I can hook up my SNES to using a GameCube A/V out.

Well, the 4311 is actually a $2,100 AVR. The only reason you can get it for $1200-1300 is because it is an "older" model. If it were just released like the X4000, you would be paying closer o $2K. By 2014, the X4000 will be closer to $600-700.

So we are really comparing a $2K AVR to a $1K AVR.

 

[wlmmn]

OK, so I ordered a 4311 from onecall. Sucks they shipped it FedEx Home Delivery, the FedEx Home guys in my neighborhood are terrible at leaving a "Sorry we missed you" note while I'm home without knocking or ringing the doorbell; I have to catch them stealthily walking up to my front door......not sure why they do that.

Anyway, I'm excited to get it, I like that it's Japan-made and also NOT a refurb but rather a brand new unit. Should have better processing than the old Marantz SR6003. Maybe now I'll pay a little more attention to how I set everything up, maybe I'll let the room correction software do it's thing. It'll be hard mentally 'cause I have a pretty negative bias towards ANY EQ treatment unless I'm in a recording studio fiddling with a super expensive EQ on the mixing/mastering side of things. I know how good processing equipment has to be in order to not degrade the whole signal simply by being processed.

 

[j_garcia]

I've found most people who have listened to their gear for a while won't like the EQ'ed sound at first. I didn't, but left it like that and gave it a chance. It DOES sound smooth and clean but that doesn't mean I need to prefer it OR use it.

I've been pretty happy with the UMC-200 so far, but it isn't perfect; nothing is.