Marantz 9500/Denon 3910/Pioneer 59AVi universal players

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davee70

Junior Audioholic
I am wondering what folks think of the Marantz DV-9500 vs. Denon DVD-3910 vs. Pioneer Elite DV59-AVi universal players. I am mainly interested in their audio performance: SACD, DVD-Audio, and Redbook CD in a stereo or 2.1 configuration. There seem to be few comparisons of these players to one another or to similar models. I have read that the Pioneer 59AVi has better sound than the older Denon 5900. What do others think of these three players?
 
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Massey Hall

Audiophyte
davee70 said:
I am wondering what folks think of the Marantz DV-9500 vs. Denon DVD-3910 vs. Pioneer Elite DV59-AVi universal players. I am mainly interested in their audio performance: SACD, DVD-Audio, and Redbook CD in a stereo or 2.1 configuration. There seem to be few comparisons of these players to one another or to similar models. I have read that the Pioneer 59AVi has better sound than the older Denon 5900. What do others think of these three players?
I've owned all three and kept the Pioneer the longest. It's truly an amazing universal player but I'm selling IT now as I picked up an Arcam.
 
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davee70

Junior Audioholic
Massey Hall said:
I've owned all three and kept the Pioneer the longest. It's truly an amazing universal player but I'm selling IT now as I picked up an Arcam.
Which one did you like the best audiowise?
 
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davee70

Junior Audioholic
Clint DeBoer said:
We reviewed two out of the three...
I read the two reviews and I found it hard to compare the two. It seemed like the Denon beat the Marantz on the video side but I'm not sure what to think about the two from an audio perspective. They both got 5 stars for Redbook, SACD, and DVD-A. I'm not planning on using the player as just a transport. If I wanted it mainly as a DVD player, the HQV tests (and others) would say the Denon.

Some have opined that the Marantz is best on CD and is as good as the Pioneer on DVD-A and better on SACD. But $2K is a lot for me and it seems discounts on the Marantz are hard to find (seeing as it hasn't been out all that long and it is their flagship player). Others have said that the Pioneer has better resolution and notably more bass on DVD-A and SACD than the Denon 5900 (predecessor to the Denon 3910). Yet, the 5900 got 5 stars on Redbook, SACD, and DVD-A in last year's review. Still others have said the Pioneer players are noted for a relative lack of bass.

It all gets a bit confusing. One thing that irritates me about the Denon is that the tray doesn't extend all the way out when opened. This can be a problem for clumsy people (like me) who half the time end up dropping the disk into the tray and hoping for the best. :)
 
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Mobius

Junior Audioholic
I think if you're mainly going to use this as a music player the Pioneer is the way to go. The price is better than the other two and I have heard many good things said about the audio performance of the Pioneer.
 
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DR_AUDIO

Enthusiast
The Denon is a very substantial player with solid build and top of the line circuitry, and parts. I have owned this for 6 months, and have auditioned the others. Excellent in all formats through analog ouputs and firewire. Must have good cables. Receiver is a Yamaha RX-Z9, which shows the best qualities and reveaLs THE FLAWS OF WHATEVER IS CONNECTED. The price is right, and can be had for considerable discount with added warranty.
 
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davee70

Junior Audioholic
As of now I've got one for the Pioneer DV59-AVi (two I guess, if you count the one who is selling his), one for the Denon DVD-3910, one who's not saying (Editor's choice), and none for the Marantz DV-9500. Anyone else have ideas about these three models? I will be using it as a universal player on a stereo (or 2.1) system. I want good Redbook, SACD, and DVD-A playback through the analog outs. No outboard DACs. Does anyone that's heard the Marantz think the sound is worth what they are asking (2K)?
 
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LEVESQUE

Junior Audioholic
If you can wait a month or 2, the new Pioneer Elite 79avi should be out in september.

It's suppose to be a big improvement for the audio part, and probably eliminating some of the video problems.

But between the 59avi, Denon 3910 and Marantz, I would still choose the 59avi only because of the fact that it's the only one of the three that can pass 480i over HDMI...

So you can then pair it with any scaler you want, with the technology you want. Gennum, Realta HQV and the like... or any new technology coming out. :D
 
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davee70

Junior Audioholic
LEVESQUE: Thanks for the heads up on the 79avi. I had hoped to make a decision before September but you never know. I'm definitely not there yet. Do you know at what price point it will be? I think the Pioneer Elite 59avi originally listed for $1599 so it has come down a lot this past year.

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I just went back over two head-to-head reviews of the Pioneer DV-59AVavi and the Denon DVD-5900, (the predecessor to the Denon DVD-3910).

Thomas J. Norton in Ultimate AV Magazine (September 2004 review) clearly preferred the sound of the Pioneer on both SACD and DVD-A for it's greater clarity and improved bass. In his review of the Denon DVD-5900 he said his initial impressions on DVD-Audio and SACD were good. He then went on to say,
"Nevertheless, I didn't find the sound to be fully involving. Everything was clean and highly listenable, yet just a little too sweet and bland, with less inner detail and dimensionality than I expect to hear from a high-resolution format such as DVD-Audio. The bass response was satisfactory, but nothing out of the ordinary.

When I switched over to the Pioneer DV-59AVi, there was no getting around it: the Pioneer simply sounded clearer, had a much stronger bottom end (I'd matched the players' output levels as closely as possible), and, overall, simply produced more of what I expect to hear from hi-rez audio. The same turned out to be true with SACD, whether I used bass management (which, remember, results in a conversion of SACD from DSD to PCM) or switched to Source Direct."
Norton said that CDs on the 5900 sounded very good for a DVD player:
"The Denon's CD playback was pristine: clear, open, and detailed. I had no complaints at all. High frequencies were airy, mids were clear, and lows were deep and tight. The imaging was solid, with a convincing sense of depth. The sound was at least as rewarding as I've heard when routing the digital outputs of a good DVD player through a top-class pre-pro.
For listening, he used the Denon's analog outs and set the main speakers to small and the low pass to the sub at 80 Hz. In a companion review of the Pioneer DV-59AVavi in the same issue he again noted his preference for the Pioneer on DVD-As and SACDs (also using the analog outs):
They sounded highly detailed, with fine depth and soundstaging; solid, tight bass; and an open, clear top end that some (not I) might find just a bit elevated.
In contrast, Shane Buettner in The Perfect Vision (September/October 2004 review) said almost exactly the opposite. In his review of the two players, he gave the Denon DVD-5900 higher marks for its audio performance.
"With SACDs, the Denon’s over-built nature paid off with a bigger, deeper soundstage, better bass foundation, more midrange focus, and a sound that was both more relaxed and detailed. More low-level details were revealed on the Denon.

On CDs, things evened up some. The Denon showed a somewhat softer, more laid-back presence region, while the Pioneer’s lightness in the bass translated to a brighter, livelier midrange sound that I’ve long associated with Pioneer players. The Denon wasn’t much deeper in soundstaging than the Elite, but the Elite seemed to better delineate detail between front and back, and had a snap and dynamism that I liked.

With high-rez PCM, the tables evened even more dramatically with the players sounding far more alike than different. This makes some sense, as there’s less processing of high-rez PCM signals with both players. The primary difference between the two was again in the bass foundation, which the Denon has and the Pioneer lacks."
Although he did seem to somewhat prefer the Pioneer's sound on CD's, he again noted the difference in bass.

So, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, who do YOU believe? :confused:
 
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davee70

Junior Audioholic
Xsound said:
Thanks, I had seen that before. The Shootout tests look to be similar to the AH/HQV tests. Most reviewers seem to think the Pioneer 59avi is one of the better DVD players, though it is by no means perfect. The Pioneer also avoids the macroblocking issue I have read about (though I must admit I really don't know what MB is).

My main interest is in the audio performance. In fact, I'd just as soon have a universal player with no video except perhaps the initial set up, so I don't have to turn TV on when I listen to music. (However, the only one I know of like that is the stereo only Ayre C-5xe at 6K[edit], so forget it.) I guess I'm putting a premium on DVD-A relative to a stand alone CD/SACD player. I'm not placing any bets on formats. I just want to have the best sound I can with whatever (hi-rez) format is available without breaking the bank.
 
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