Mar a Lago raided by FBI

MaxInValrico

MaxInValrico

Full Audioholic
Yeah, Clintons go all the way back to their college days with their shenanigans. Ole Bill fast talking smooth Eddie, with his governorship up in Arkansas. Took what he cultured up to the president's office. Made a mess of that. Yeah what a legacy they left huh.. His ole lady Hillary ain't no better she's probably The Mastermind behind the whole sh$t. She sure groomed him well.
It's not about the Clintons. Deal with it.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
The UK press, which has been renowned for jumping the gun, is rife with, what I have to call rumors at this stage, that these documents contain highly classified and sensitive nuclear secrets.
I can't think of any US government document about nuclear weapons that wouldn't be classified at the very highest level. Information like that would also be highly limited in distribution. Only those who need to know that info so they could do their jobs would be cleared to see it. Anyone else – no matter what their rank or title, including US president – could not see it or even know about it. This raises the question whether Trump was actually authorized to see these highly classified documents. The US president does not have blanket access to any and all secrets. He may have ordered it be sent to him. I doubt that his staff would have stopped this from happening.

But let's not speculate further until we see something more tangible. I expect any release of the search warrant will likely contain redactions.
Trump certainly fawned over, and lamely vouched for Putin's veracity. We are only at the very beginning of an unravelling a shameful moment in US history I fear.
Putin is only the first to come to mind as a potential buyer of such documents. Remember that Trump received a security clearance only because he was elected to the office. His previous publicly available record was easily enough to have failed the normal background investigation required for a high level clearance. He had plenty of 'character and financial issues' that would make him a target for blackmail.
 
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M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Field Marshall
Here's the DOJ motion to unseal the search warrant:


The DOJ has not requested that that probable cause affidavit be made public:


If the documents are highly classified, the DOJ is facing a PR catch-22 of sorts because it can't make the documents public to prove to the public that they are highly classified.

My best guess is that Trump will assert or imply that the documents were not highly classified precisely because he knows the documents are in fact classified and the DOJ cannot therefore go public with the documents to prove him wrong.

This is pure speculation on my part, but I've wondered if some of the material relates to kompromat or alleged kompromat that the Russians had on Trump. The way Trump groveled when he was around Putin was downright creepy. Having said that, it seems like Trump would have just flushed it.

Here's another purely speculative theory: The documents included kompromat on others and Trump wanted it so he could use it if need be.

I'll readily concede that it's tempting to fill an information vacuum with all sorts of speculation, and that's exactly what I'm doing.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
If the documents are highly classified, the DOJ is facing a PR catch-22 of sorts because it can't make the documents public to prove to the public that they are highly classified.
This has happened before. At least twice, cases were never prosecuted for that reason.

In 1942, right after the Battle of Midway, the Chicago Tribune revealed top secret intelligence capabilities. Prosecution was eventually avoided only because presenting that info as evidence in a court room would reveal the secrets of the navy's ability to intercept & decrypt Japanese military radio traffic.

In 1968, the LBJ administration had direct evidence (legally obtained wire taps) that Tricky D!ck Nixon was communicating with the government of South Vietnam to derail the peace discussions taking place in Paris. This occurred during the fall election campaign of 1968. At the time, Nixon was a civilian, prevented by US law from participating in or interfering with diplomacy with foreign nations. It was argued that revealing the nature of the info that led to authorizing the wire taps was more important only if it was kept secret. The US was intercepting & reading the communications between the government of South Vietnam and it's ambassador in Washington.
This is pure speculation on my part, but I've wondered if some of the material relates to kompromat or alleged kompromat that the Russians had on Trump. The way Trump groveled when he was around Putin was downright creepy. Having said that, it seems like Trump would have just flushed it.
Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "White House Plumbers" ;).
 
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Trell

Trell

Audioholic Ninja
I can't think of any US government document about nuclear weapons that wouldn't be classified at the very highest level. Information like that would also be highly limited in distribution. Only those who need to know that info so they could do their jobs would be cleared to see it. Anyone else – no matter what their rank or title, including US president – could not see it or even know about it. This raises the question whether Trump was actually authorized to see these highly classified documents. The US president does not have blanket access to any and all secrets. He may have ordered it be sent to him. I doubt that his staff would have stopped this from happening.

But let's not speculate further until we see something more tangible. I expect any release of the search warrant will likely contain redactions.
Putin is only the first to come to mind as a potential buyer of such documents. Remember that Trump received a security clearance only because he was elected to the office. His previous publicly available record was easily enough to have failed the normal background investigation required for a high level clearance. He had plenty of 'character and financial issues' that would make him a target for blackmail.
We understand perfectly well and are very scared, with good reasons.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
How exactly are you going to joke/lie this one off Trumpy? Sure they can't disclosure the contents of the documents. Saw an article that said they are higher than Top Secret, "Special Access". Why he had them in the first place is a big question. Then why he removed them. IF they would be able to connect him to communications where he was trying to provide them to someone that could get pretty interesting. But why would someone so "'Merica" sell secrets to presumably another country?
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Overlord
Here's the DOJ motion to unseal the search warrant:


The DOJ has not requested that that probable cause affidavit be made public:
The search warrant is what is shown to defenders, listing WHAT they are looking for and WHERE.
The search warrant affidavit is a document that is prepared for Judges seeing to approve a search warrant has the WHY and what other methods were attempted by trying to get this information.

Per the article you linked:
Search warrant affidavits are almost never made public before charges and often remain permanently under seal if charges are never filed. However, once prosecutors open a criminal case, any warrant affidavits used during the inquiry will generally be turned over to the defense — though not in a public manner — as part of the discovery process."
Since the FBI had insider(s) in Trump's camp, they knew exactly where to look, likely a big reason this search warrant was approved in the first place. I don't think that a publically available (possibly lightly redacted) Trump's search warrant would be a national security issue.

Disclaimer: IANAL
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Ninja
The search warrant is what is shown to defenders, listing WHAT they are looking for and WHERE.
The search warrant affidavit is a document that is prepared for Judges seeing to approve a search warrant has the WHY and what other methods were attempted by trying to get this information.

Per the article you linked:


Since the FBI had insider(s) in Trump's camp, they knew exactly where to look, likely a big reason this search warrant was approved in the first place. I don't think that a publically available (possibly lightly redacted) Trump's search warrant would be a national security issue.

Disclaimer: IANAL
Even the very far right members of this forum have gone silent; they’ve no problem otherwise defending pedophilia. ;)

But now they are silent, go figure.

Perhaps too busy listening to police radios?
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Field Marshall
This has happened before. At least twice, cases were never prosecuted for that reason.

In 1942, right after the Battle of Midway, the Chicago Tribune revealed top secret intelligence capabilities. Prosecution was eventually avoided only because presenting that info as evidence in a court room would reveal the secrets of the navy's ability to intercept & decrypt Japanese military radio traffic.

In 1968, the LBJ administration had direct evidence (legally obtained wire taps) that Tricky D!ck Nixon was communicating with the government of South Vietnam to derail the peace discussions taking place in Paris. This occurred during the fall election campaign of 1968. At the time, Nixon was a civilian, prevented by US law from participating in or interfering with diplomacy with foreign nations. It was argued that revealing the nature of the info that led to authorizing the wire taps was more important only if it was kept secret. The US was intercepting & reading the communications between the government of South Vietnam and it's ambassador in Washington.
Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "White House Plumbers" ;).
The Chicago Tribune and Nixon cases you mentioned are interesting.

In my post I was referring to the public battle between DOJ and Trump. Trump seems to have the advantage because he can say almost anything he wants (other than disclosing classified information, of course, but I suspect he'd want to say there wasn't any), whereas the DOJ is very limited (in part due to it's own rules against going public with information concerning a criminal investigation).

I'm not sure how it would actually play out in court. Here's 18 U.S.C 1924

18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material

(a) Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.

(b) For purposes of this section, the provision of documents and materials to the Congress shall not constitute an offense under subsection (a).

(c) In this section, the term “classified information of the United States” means information originated, owned, or possessed by the United States Government concerning the national defense or foreign relations of the United States that has been determined pursuant to law or Executive order to require protection against unauthorized disclosure in the interests of national security.


Sandy Berger and Patraeus both pleaded guilty under section 1924:



This law has new and improved teeth due to the 2018 changes signed into law by Trump:


I have not reviewed the court filings in the Berger and Patraeus cases, so take the following with a grain of salt (or 2)(heck, throw in a margarita). My extremely rudimentary understanding is that the DOJ would only need to prove that the documents were classified, not the actual contents of the documents. Documents are required to be marked:


It seems to me that the prosecutor could present redacted documents that retain the security markings. The trier of fact (judge or jury) could decide if this is sufficient to show that the document contained "classified information of the United States." Presumably, additional evidence (e.g. witnesses) could be entered to support the assertion that the unredacted documents contained classified information.

Just Security has a pretty decent overview of the various federal laws that might apply.


From this website:

>>>18 U.S.C. 2071 – Concealment, Removal, or Mutilation Generally

This is perhaps the most-discussed statute since the search, including because it carries as one of its penalties the possible disqualification from holding public office. (Whether that disqualification could apply to the presidency, or whether it would be an impermissible variation of the constitutionally established qualifications for that office, is a question for another day.)<<<

Given that it is now another day, here's my answer to the question: "Yes."

Further affiant sayeth not.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Even the very far right members of this forum have gone silent; they’ve no problem otherwise defending pedophilia. ;)

But now they are silent, go figure.

Perhaps too busy listening to police radios?
Wow- that's a stretch.

Sorry, I have other things to do.

Anyone who is silent on pedophilia is a waste of air, food and everything else.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Field Marshall
The search warrant is what is shown to defenders, listing WHAT they are looking for and WHERE.
The search warrant affidavit is a document that is prepared for Judges seeing to approve a search warrant has the WHY and what other methods were attempted by trying to get this information.

Per the article you linked:


Since the FBI had insider(s) in Trump's camp, they knew exactly where to look, likely a big reason this search warrant was approved in the first place. I don't think that a publically available (possibly lightly redacted) Trump's search warrant would be a national security issue.

Disclaimer: IANAL
Yeah, I posted the links in case anyone is interested in the differences between the two. I suspect the topic of the affidavit will come up more frequently in the media, especially if the court unseals the search warrant.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
Too easy... talk about low hanging fruit...

I'll play.

Catholics and the Neo-Conservatives!

:p
I can't wait for the FBI to raid Michelle Obama's wardrobe, they'll be in for a big surprise!! That's Big Mike man!! :cool::p yep I'll play!!:D
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
This wins the award for the best excuse why Trump had secret nuclear weapons documents at home.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/08/12/trump-nuclear-documents-mar-a-lago-satire/
Trump was busy flushing a big pile of documents, and did not notice that he had gotten some classified materials stuck to his shoe. Unfortunately, the material was too classified to even be described, so nobody could tell him it was there, and he dragged it to Florida without even realizing he was doing it.
 
John Parks

John Parks

Audioholic Field Marshall
How Trump did it (according to the WaPo, NYT, etc. - probably):
1660331372147.png
 
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