Mar a Lago raided by FBI

BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Overlord
Allen Weisselberg, Trump Org's ex-CFO, set to plead guilty | AP News
NEW YORK (AP) — A top executive at former President Donald Trump’s family business pleaded guilty Thursday to evading taxes on a free apartment and other perks, striking a deal with prosecutors that could make him a star witness against the company at a trial this fall.
In the news tomorrow: "
Trump: "I don't know this person, never met him before. I heard he is a bad person."
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Prediction is difficult, especially if it's about the future.

Having said that, I'm not so sure a botched investigation (of some sort) would guarantee that Trump would be reelected.

It would rev up his base, but they'd support him anyway. Plenty of people dislike Trump for numerous reasons and a botched investigation would not magically erase these reasons.
Not sure I have heard of anyone predicting the past.....:)

If they don't indict and find him guilty, it could very well be a case of 'That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger' with the MAGA crowd. They seem to be easily led and none of them seem to remember "Blind obedience will get you killed".
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Not sure I have heard of anyone predicting the past.....:)

If they don't indict and find him guilty, it could very well be a case of 'That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger' with the MAGA crowd. They seem to be easily led and none of them seem to remember "Blind obedience will get you killed".
That's EXACTLY what I was trying to say. It's not with the MAGA crowd as well. It's independent voters you'd have to watch out for. Voters sitting on the fence that may not like Trump but start hearing his spin of they didn't find anything it was another witch hunt I must really be powerful to have my political opponents come after me like this. Blah blah blah.

Nothing like this has really been done in recent times to a sitting president. It's of course going to raise the tension level a bit. With all that and this doesn't lead to an actual indictment or charges? Trump would be able to spin that to his advantage.

They need to find something indict him and convict his dumb a$$

Nothing less then that is in my opinion a backfire that could come back and bite the feds in the backside
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
That's EXACTLY what I was trying to say. It's not with the MAGA crowd as well. It's independent voters you'd have to watch out for. Voters sitting on the fence that may not like Trump but start hearing his spin of they didn't find anything it was another witch hunt I must really be powerful to have my political opponents come after me like this. Blah blah blah.

Nothing like this has really been done in recent times to a sitting president. It's of course going to raise the tension level a bit. With all that and this doesn't lead to an actual indictment or charges? Trump would be able to spin that to his advantage.

They need to find something indict him and convict his dumb a$$

Nothing less then that is in my opinion a backfire that could come back and bite the feds in the backside
So, you're comparing some of the independents with someone in a carton who smells something delicious and it floats them toward the feast as if the vapors were two fingers hooked into their nostrils?
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
So, you're comparing some of the independents with someone in a carton who smells something delicious and it floats them toward the feast as if the vapors were two fingers hooked into their nostrils?
No not at all. Independents are a big push in really any election nowadays with the party bases being so 50/50.

They don't care about the tribal stuff fringe stuff or really team red or blue.

They just want the best policies and support for day to day living.

The danger of this is if Trump can spin it as another witch hunt then some of them may perceive that he's being persecuted and it could impact they're vote.

That's the risk if they don't indict him before November. Trump and the GOP will spin it as this was another hit job to try to smear voters perceptions before the fall elections this year. There's so many ways to spin it.

That's what I'm thinking may possibly play out
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
No not at all. Independents are a big push in really any election nowadays with the party bases being so 50/50.

They don't care about the tribal stuff fringe stuff or really team red or blue.

They just want the best policies and support for day to day living.

The danger of this is if Trump can spin it as another witch hunt then some of them may perceive that he's being persecuted and it could impact they're vote.

That's the risk if they don't indict him before November. Trump and the GOP will spin it as this was another hit job to try to smear voters perceptions before the fall elections this year. There's so many ways to spin it.

That's what I'm thinking may possibly play put
I would like an independent who's kind of a 'broad centrist'- someone who considers both sides and go relatively far into each if it happens to be a good idea where it will do the most good and NOT be a pawn of one party or another. One thing that has surprised my is the number of women who have a MAGA hat and further, they wear it. In one case, her husband was pretty pissed off about it, but he's not really a hardliner and has voted for D and R in recent elections, depending on whom was running. One thing he did that was pretty funny- in '08, he put a "This Sign Will Totally Change The Way You Vote" sign and in '12, he put one out with something like "Vote James K Polk for America's 11th President, for change".
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Field Marshall
No not at all. Independents are a big push in really any election nowadays with the party bases being so 50/50.

They don't care about the tribal stuff fringe stuff or really team red or blue.

They just want the best policies and support for day to day living.

The danger of this is if Trump can spin it as another witch hunt then some of them may perceive that he's being persecuted and it could impact they're vote.

That's the risk if they don't indict him before November. Trump and the GOP will spin it as this was another hit job to try to smear voters perceptions before the fall elections this year. There's so many ways to spin it.
I don't follow.

If independents "just want the best policies and support for day to day living" why would a botched federal investigation of Trump make them want to vote for Trump? What would Trump's legal problems have to do with policies for day to day living?

There's no doubt that playing the victim card over and over and over ad nauseam fires up Trump's base, but why would independents care about Trump's little hissy fits?

I think there's something wrong here:


(the link to the hissyfits video doesn't really have anything to do with my post, and the lyrics don't fit the topic at hand)(i.e. don't interpret it as a jab at you of some sort)
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
I don't follow.

If independents "just want the best policies and support for day to day living" why would a botched federal investigation of Trump make them want to vote for Trump? What would Trump's legal problems have to do with policies for day to day living?

There's no doubt that playing the victim card over and over and over ad nauseam fires up Trump's base, but why would independents care about Trump's little hissy fits?

I think there's something wrong here:


(the link to the hissyfits video doesn't really have anything to do with my post, and the lyrics don't fit the topic at hand)(i.e. don't interpret it as a jab at you of some sort)
Because independents don't care as much as Democrats or Republicans who they vote for as long as they think that person will get the job done.

I'll give you an example. Independents don't care about Jan 6th. They really don't. But here's the flip side of that they equally dont care about Trumps crying over his fake election either.

They're tired of the fighting back and forth to be honest they care more about inflation, energy costs, cost of living, education, crime, foreign policy, border policy, etc etc and they will go with whichever party they think has a better grip on those policies
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
I don't follow.

If independents "just want the best policies and support for day to day living" why would a botched federal investigation of Trump make them want to vote for Trump? What would Trump's legal problems have to do with policies for day to day living?

There's no doubt that playing the victim card over and over and over ad nauseam fires up Trump's base, but why would independents care about Trump's little hissy fits?

I think there's something wrong here:


(the link to the hissyfits video doesn't really have anything to do with my post, and the lyrics don't fit the topic at hand)(i.e. don't interpret it as a jab at you of some sort)
So keeping independents in mind if you don't think Trump won't run with the narrative of my opponents did this raid right before the midterms because they are coming for me. Look at how they doubled the IRS if they come for me they will come for you. And other twists on this they can employ. And some of that will stick with independents.

If they convict him then independents won't care. But if you don't convict him then the GOP argument of why do this to a former president when it's never really been done before will have some room to resonate with however they want to play it.

Remember it doesn't have to be true. It just has to sound good in a sound bite on TV. That's just the way our Twitter evolved society works these days

I'm telling you I think they need to indict him and go for a conviction. If the feds have something on him go for the game winning home room. Don't give this dude any type of wiggle room to stay in the game

I do believe the dems didn't know about this because doing this before the midterms if they don't indict him and get him with anything is just terrible timing by the FBI
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Field Marshall
So keeping independents in mind if you don't think Trump won't run with the narrative of my opponents did this raid right before the midterms because they are coming for me. Look at how they doubled the IRS if they come for me they will come for you. And other twists on this they can employ. And some of that will stick with independents.

If they convict him then independents won't care. But if you don't convict him then the GOP argument of why do this to a former president when it's never really been done before will have some room to resonate with however they want to play it.

Remember it doesn't have to be true. It just has to sound good in a sound bite on TV. That's just the way our Twitter evolved society works these days

I'm telling you I think they need to indict him and go for a conviction. If the feds have something on him go for the game winning home room. Don't give this dude any type of wiggle room to stay in the game

I do believe the dems didn't know about this because doing this before the midterms if they don't indict him and get him with anything is just terrible timing by the FBI
We're going to have to agree to disagree.

"They" don't "need" to indict him. This is a legal investigation. If there is overwhelming evidence that he committed serious crimes, in my opinion the DOJ should take the evidence to a federal grand jury to see if the grand jury will indict him. If this happens, so be it.

If there isn't reliable evidence that he committed serious crimes, in my opinion the DOJ shouldn't seek an indictment. If Trump runs in 2024 and some people decide they want to vote for Trump on the basis that he was not indicted, so be it.

You seem to be looking at this from a purely political point of view. I don't see it that way.

Keep in mind that Trump took government documents when he left the White House. The documents are the property of the federal government. No one in their right mind would believe that the documents were the personal property of Trump. According to the search warrant that was released, the FBI did indeed retrieve property of the federal government when it searched Mar-a-Lago.

That's not to say he couldn't be indicted on various charges, but we already know he had government property in his possession that was retreived by the FBI. Those are facts.

Trump's approval ratings were in the cellar after January 6. He has very little appeal beyond his base. I can't see how taking government property yet avoiding an indictment is a compelling reason to vote for someone.

The people who are enticed by "the IRS is after you" type stuff are already Trumpers. He's been playing the same card for years and years.

You are of course free to make any predictions you want.
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
We're going to have to agree to disagree.

"They" don't "need" to indict him. This is a legal investigation. If there is overwhelming evidence that he committed serious crimes, in my opinion the DOJ should take the evidence to a federal grand jury to see if the grand jury will indict him. If this happens, so be it.

If there isn't reliable evidence that he committed serious crimes, in my opinion the DOJ shouldn't seek an indictment. If Trump runs in 2024 and some people decide they want to vote for Trump on the basis that he was not indicted, so be it.

You seem to be looking at this from a purely political point of view. I don't see it that way.

Keep in mind that Trump took government documents when he left the White House. The documents are the property of the federal government. No one in their right mind would believe that the documents were the personal property of Trump. According to the search warrant that was released, the FBI did indeed retrieve property of the federal government when it searched Mar-a-Lago.

That's not to say he couldn't be indicted on various charges, but we already know he had government property in his possession that was retreived by the FBI. Those are facts.

Trump's approval ratings were in the cellar after January 6. He has very little appeal beyond his base. I can't see how taking government property yet avoiding an indictment is a compelling reason to vote for someone.

The people who are enticed by "the IRS is after you" type stuff are already Trumpers. He's been playing the same card for years and years.

You are of course free to make any predictions you want.
I'm not even sure we have to disagree

I never said anything above was accurate I said it only had to be perceived as accurate which all politicians and media are good at putting spin on things

And you are 100% correct in interpreting this through the lens of the law. And you are 100% in interpreting that I'm looking at it through the lens of politics

But I'm making that point because that's how MOST people will interpret it. They won't see it with your expertise that you have in the law

Trumps approval ratings were in the tank. BUT fair or not now so are Bidens and that changes a lot of things. People when uncomfortable have real short term memories when it comes to the past

I feel democrats are mistaken if they think the only thing they have to worry about is the Trump base. A LOT of people not just Trumpers dont trust the government. All Trump has to do is spin this which he can if he's not indicted and this could be a real blowback like abortion rights has turned out to be for the GOP

From a political view if they don't indict its terrible optics. It looks really bad right before the November midterms. You've had news stations all over going he's hiding nuclear secrets he's hoarding info for espionage. That's serious accusations to be slinging around on a media level. And if they don't even charge him?

You don't think people won't put this on the democrats as yet another one of they're failed attempts to take him out? It even makes Jan 6th look bad because if he's not guilty of this then people could be start spinning well maybe he's not guilty of that.

Just look at how the GOP spun the inflation bill on doubling the IRS and how it's really about going after the middle class. Look at how they spun that ad about arming agents? Americans are notorious for being protective of how much they are taxed. That's not a Trumper thing

If you don't think the GOP can't spin this whole situation to they're advantage if he's not charged we'll your getting the law interpretation right. I think you might just be missing the bigger picture

If the FBI can't charge him they never should have done this.

Oh that bill is crap by the way but that's a discussion for a whole different thread
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Regardless I'm still not tripping this is just as pointed out speculation. He has the Georgia issue and several other situations going to court. I'm banking on something sticking. I know he's ducked and doged a lot of stuff in the past but I don't think hes had to dodge this much from so many directions. I'm thinking something sticks.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Ninja
Unless DeSantis is a total wreck, it's why I'm voting in the primaries. Because I don't have enough confidence the voters will. They might, but who knows.... There's still the Cult of Personality, though I find it to be steeped in hate speak. Trump's even said if he runs again he'll be back on the attack in the primaries. I'm hoping DeSantis "talk about the issues" resonates with voters because I find him to be much more articulate than Trump who basically is a one-dimensional speaker IMO. I still think there's a contingent who like gas poured over the fire.
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Unless DeSantis is a total wreck, it's why I'm voting in the primaries. Because I don't have enough confidence the voters will. They might, but who knows.... There's still the Cult of Personality, though I find it to be steeped in hate speak. Trump's even said if he runs again he'll be back on the attack in the primaries. I'm hoping DeSantis "talk about the issues" resonates with voters because I find him to be much more articulate than Trump who basically is a one-dimensional speaker IMO. I still think there's a contingent who like gas poured over the fire.
DeSantis is the better candidate I think your gut feeling is right

But Shady was right about one thing. This is Trumps party at least for now. I just disagreed that it will always stay that way.

If DeSantis runs in 2024 I don't think he can beat Trump for the nomination.

And honestly unless it's against Biden I don't think Trump can win. Hes got too much baggage and he's way too toxic. Even against Biden it would be harder then some realize.

Heck the so called Red Wave in November after carefully looking at things I'm not sure the GOP can pull that off. Especially in the Senate. They have terrible candidates. And a lot of them were endorsed by Trump. If I were Democrat I'd want Trump around I wouldn't want him locked up he splits the Republicans and tears the party apart. Trump is a gift that keeps on giving for them.

If the GOP loses I'll actually be happy with that. They are going to have to learn to get this clown out of they're system. And to look at why they are so unpopular to a big number of voters. They will either learn to listen to voters or they won't. But losing is the best way sometimes to force a party to change. Otherwise. They can just keep on losing. And crying about rigged elections why they're sitting on the losers bench on the sidelines.

I'm really hoping his legal troubles keep him out so that process can be sped up. It's why I'm so invested in this raid. Otherwise my party cleaning up there act and getting out of the dumpster is going to be a long and painful act.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Unless DeSantis is a total wreck, it's why I'm voting in the primaries. Because I don't have enough confidence the voters will. They might, but who knows.... There's still the Cult of Personality, though I find it to be steeped in hate speak. Trump's even said if he runs again he'll be back on the attack in the primaries. I'm hoping DeSantis "talk about the issues" resonates with voters because I find him to be much more articulate than Trump who basically is a one-dimensional speaker IMO. I still think there's a contingent who like gas poured over the fire.
But your right we got to get out there and vote if we have any hope of change. I will vote for DeSantis as well. Let's keep our fingers crossed
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Let's look at this in a different way...

We all know Trump is a CRIMINAL. This is largely indisputable at this point. He has as much as admitted to sexual assault, even!

We knew Dahmer was a criminal... Look at him... Manson? Madhoff? Theranos? Shkrelli?

Is the difference just that one got made fun of by a former President then decided to run and happen to win? So he gets a free pass for life? Even though we all KNOW?

And are still finding out MORE sh!t he did?!!

*Seizure induced by rolling eyes too hard.
 

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