Mar a Lago raided by FBI

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Mr._Clark

Audioholic Field Marshall
One of the key components that has been brought up is there should still be a paper trail if T did move to declassify any of these documents. Especially the alleged nuclear secrets document(s). That is not something that he can just wave his magic sharpie over.
It seems to me that a lot of the commentary in the media conflates a president’s power to declassify documents with the process for declassifying documents. In other words, if a president fails to follow the procedures, does this automatically mean that the documents are not declassified? I’m not aware of any cases directly on point but I’d be interested in any cases others might be aware of.

This power vs process also needs to be separated from the issue of proving that declassification actually occurred. In other words, if (big “if”) a court were to hold that declassification could have occurred even if the normal process was not followed, could Trump’s lawyers introduce enough evidence to convince s jury that there is reasonable doubt concerning whether or not the documents had been declassified?

But, again, if the DOJ were to only bring charges under the three laws listed in the search warrant it wouldn’t really matter if the documents had been declassified or not. The government would not be required to show that the documents were classified.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
I'd seen that, but there have been several "experts" in the Security and Intelligence fields that say this is not the case, regardless of a sitting president's ability to declassify documents.
Ultimately, this will come down to the courts, I think, and potentially the Supreme Court to determine.

Sadly we can't trust (currently) the Supreme Court to actually do what is morally and ethically correct.
Not looking through Rose colored glasses are you?, when you really think about those appointed supreme Court justices of federal law over our Constitution. When have they really upheld the laws of the Constitution? Didn't they :rolleyes: reverse, women's rights to have a legal abortion. "Sadly" nah man, they'll make a new rule of law, to change and fix. What a slap to women's rights huh in this country. What's next coming from those, supreme Court assholes!; Reverse women's rights to vote next? Firearm rights? Roe vs Wade, poor women huh, just wait till they mandate they got to start wearing dashiki du-wraps on their heads and robes down to their ankles dress and a mask covering their mouth and nose just the eyes exposed. Oh wait they already got the face mask thing going strong. Lol. Muslim law rule coming to your local city soon. Already got a bunch them walking around the city I live in. Been seeing a lot of those poor women walking around in full dashiki do-wrap dress, like they going to a Halloween costume party. This isn't the the country your father's, father grew up with.
 
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M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ha hah ha!

In one sense Trump already did this. It worked out okay for him, but for Michael Cohen? Not so much. Most lawyers are not fond of prison and they tend to flip once there's enough heat.

I'll see your Breaking Bad cite, and raise you an End of Days quote:

Bobby Chicago: "You'd be amazed what you'll agree to when you're on fire."


As long as we're going Hollywood, the entire premise of the movie "Double Jeopardy" is false:

>>>Once free, Libby can kill Nick with impunity due to the Double Jeopardy Clause in the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution.<<<


 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Also, the three Federal laws listed on the search warrant do not require the documents to be classified. In other words, legally it makes no difference if the documents were classified or declassified.

I suspect that the DOJ did not want to rely on the law covering covering classified documents because it could have limited what documents the FBI could take. Also, if the search warrant had been limited to classified documents and it later came out that Trump did declassify the documents, he could argue that the search warrant was fatally flawed and nothing taken from his home is admissible as evidence.

The search warrant is quite broad and it’s difficult to see how Trump could successfully show in court that it was improper.

Although the search warrant does not list the laws covering classified documents, the DOJ could still bring charges under the laws covering classified documents. Legally it would make sense for Trump to try to show that the documents had been declassified to avoid charges under the classified documents laws.

As of right now the “I declassified everything” statements amount to an assertion that he didn’t break a law that was not even listed on the search warrant.

It’s curious that Trump is basically making an admission that documents that were taken had been classified. Public statements are not necessarily binding in court, and I’m sure his lawyers would be very careful to assert in any court filings that the documents were not top secret, but even if they had been at one time Trump declassified them before he left office.

Overall, the “I declassified everything” statements appear to be an effort to confuse the public and provide his base something they can cling to (even if it’s false or irrelevant).
How would espionage law fit in with non-classified documents?
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
Ha hah ha!

In one sense Trump already did this. It worked out okay for him, but for Michael Cohen? Not so much. Most lawyers are not fond of prison and they tend to flip once there's enough heat.

I'll see your Breaking Bad cite, and raise you an End of Days quote:

Bobby Chicago: "You'd be amazed what you'll agree to when you're on fire."


As long as we're going Hollywood, the entire premise of the movie "Double Jeopardy" is false:

>>>Once free, Libby can kill Nick with impunity due to the Double Jeopardy Clause in the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution.<<<


"Premises" you guys really did drink the blue Kool-Aid. Lol the whole sh&t show that the Democratic party Sleep Joe's running for them is going as they planned. You guys are sitting in the middle and sucking on it?. :cool:
 
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mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
One of the key components that has been brought up is there should still be a paper trail if T did move to declassify any of these documents. Especially the alleged nuclear secrets document(s). That is not something that he can just wave his magic sharpie over.
...
Yes, you are correct om wand waving, paper trail and process. The agency that classified it has to start the process. T may have the ability to have the process start but not sure, I never started such a process. ;)
It takes time. then, if declassified, all the place that have the document have to be notified and the documents themselves have to be so marked that it is declassified on such and such date.
(1) what does a declassifed document look like - Search (bing.com)
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
...

If the lawyer is a potential fact witness (e.g. to an obstruction of justice charge) he/she would be conflicted out of further representation of Trump in connection with the documents. I’ve read a number of news reports in an effort to find out which lawyers were present in June to see if any of them are no longer representing Trump. So far I haven’t found the information.

...
Of course not found. That list is even higher classified by T himself. ;) :D
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Samurai
CNNs Keilar asks Mike Turner (R-OH) if he'd take home special access documents hahaha. However, should I have posted this? He should've known the question was coming. Nonetheless the smokescreen came.

Kevlar was the one who did the piece on Cancun Cruz. I liked when she said, For someone thats just dropping off their family, that's some pretty large luggage. :)
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Field Marshall
"Premises" you guys really did drink the blue Kool-Aid. Lol the whole sh&t show that the Democratic party Sleep Joe's running for them is going as they planned. You guys are sitting in the middle and sucking on it. :cool:
Are you asserting that something I posted is factually incorrect?

If so, please identify it.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
Good liquid even though I don't partake in that drink.
Yeah man, I can dig it. Maybe a few get my post on political threads. One AH member mentioned my (tongue in cheek post) about the two party system we have. As you may have noticed, I Do Not like either party. Much less the current and past presidents. I do understand why Sleep Joe is in, after the mess Trump man's left. Ones gotta Wonder though, if a 2nd administration with crazy man up there in office how many more generals and FBI directors he'd have fired. As far as the Mar-Lay-Taco BS, well it is nice to see that even the Rich and Famous even have bad days. Still he won't see a cell, he will be exonerated. He's got a Lot of Dirt on, the powers that be.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
Yes, you are correct om wand waving, paper trail and process. The agency that classified it has to start the process. T may have the ability to have the process start but not sure, I never started such a process. ;)
It takes time. then, if declassified, all the place that have the document have to be notified and the documents themselves have to be so marked that it is declassified on such and such date.
(1) what does a declassifed document look like - Search (bing.com)
A sitting president can declassify any document. A sitting president can get any classified document he chooses to. If a said classified document isn't and/or not released to him when asked for then the one who refuses such classified documents are in violation of federal law. A sitting president does not need congress's approval to declassify any document. Once a declassified document is released he can walk out the White House with it in his hands.
Screenshot_20220814-195156~2.png
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
A sitting president can declassify any document. A sitting president can get any classified document he chooses to. If a said classified document isn't and/or not released to him when asked for then the one who refuses such classified documents are in violation of federal law. A sitting president does not need congress's approval to declassify any document. Once a declassified document is released he can walk out the White House with it in his hands.
View attachment 57314
And, there is a process it has to go through. Don't think he can do that with nuclear secrets.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
And, there is more.
Wait for it....

Rand Paul want to do away with the espionage laws. :eek:


Good luck on that Rand
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
A sitting president can declassify any document. A sitting president can get any classified document he chooses to. If a said classified document isn't and/or not released to him when asked for then the one who refuses such classified documents are in violation of federal law. A sitting president does not need congress's approval to declassify any document. Once a declassified document is released he can walk out the White House with it in his hands.
View attachment 57314
What's your source on that "fact"?
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
And, there is a process it has to go through. Don't think he can do that with nuclear secrets.
Not nuclear secrets true. No, a sitting president cannot declassify nuclear secret documents. But can still get his hands on them. As far as the 'due process' a sitting president can still get his hand on any classified including missile secrets. : In a remote case he got kidnapped, tortured, held for ransom, to give up those secrets. Like codes to launch the missiles. Those are double secret, kept in a secret hidden safe, from all presidents passed and present. Ever wonder what defense department guards those secrets. Can't be them nuclear department defense guy's huh. Imagine having to take that to your grave with them type of secrets. Be like just put a bullseye on your back right.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
And, there is more.
Wait for it....

Rand Paul want to do away with the espionage laws. :eek:


Good luck on that Rand
What? Do away with espionage laws? Well I could see that happening, Slowly though. Already got one law thrown out of woman's rights. They been working on taking gun ownership rights away. There's No such thing as privacy rights they lied to everyone.
 
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