Low Center Channel Volume

K

KAKA

Enthusiast
I received My Yamaha RX-A1050. Set everything from running 8 position calibration and placement of speaker as per home theatre setup guide where center channel is placed facing front seating position. For some reason dialog is very low i m not sure should i just raise center channel volume as it may cause imbalance with front ones. Center and Front channel both are around 16feet from seating position. Please guide.
 
WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Samurai

Just raise the center channel volume. It won’t hurt a thing. The only “imbalance” is what you’re experiencing now with it too low. :)

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
N

NorCalRP

Full Audioholic
Hi Wayne, I've appreciated your responses in other threads, so I'd like to ask an expanded question... does only the dialog increase, and if so how would this not affect other sounds coming from the center channel? Also, to your knowledge, are there LCR setups where the sensitivity of the center is higher thereby negating the need to set a higher dialogue adjustment? The reason is ask is because I use my system about 50/50 and when listening to music, I have to turn off the adjustment due to my preference to use the multi channel stereo mode.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Hi Wayne, I've appreciated your responses in other threads, so I'd like to ask an expanded question... does only the dialog increase, and if so how would this not affect other sounds coming from the center channel? Also, to your knowledge, are there LCR setups where the sensitivity of the center is higher thereby negating the need to set a higher dialogue adjustment? The reason is ask is because I use my system about 50/50 and when listening to music, I have to turn off the adjustment due to my preference to use the multi channel stereo mode.
I think receivers are different in this respect. You can up the center channel, but it may unbalance the music. Upping the dialog depends on the receiver and specs are not transparent. Basically there is a combination of increased level plus HF Eq, and in addition I understand there can be some dynamic range expansion. If you over do it a harsh sound will result.

I think the crux of the matter, is that a center speaker is very difficult to design. When I first designed my center, I had that problem, so added a control to boost the center at will for movies.

However after a few iterations of the crossover, the level now never needs touching. Not long ago I removed the level control as I had not used it in years. I have to say that I think this is a center channel quality issue more than anything else.

Getting a speaker that produces clear conversational speech without artificial shout and be heard above the background is a tall order.

I think the center speaker is the toughest challenge in speaker design. Don't forget to try your system without a center, as that can be a solution.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Pics of position of center speaker may help....wondering if the center is placed at ear level or angled to such a position? Otherwise raising the center channel level may help.
 
N

NorCalRP

Full Audioholic
I'd say the center is maybe 4" to 6" below ear height. My dialog level adjust goes +/- 12db and I usually have to have it +9db to +12db depending on the film. FWIW, I exclusively stream via Netflix, Prime, HBO Go, etc. Just haven't started going down the BluRay road. Tried to do my best to get the cc under the screen via an articulating mount
IMG_20180627_115412.jpg
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I'd say the center is maybe 4" to 6" below ear height. My dialog level adjust goes +/- 12db and I usually have to have it +9db to +12db depending on the film. FWIW, I exclusively stream via Netflix, Prime, HBO Go, etc. Just haven't started going down the BluRay road. Tried to do my best to get the cc under the screen via an articulating mountView attachment 24723
Oh dear! Just about everything wrong with that picture. Do you have another location?

You have the right and left right up against the side walls one brick and the other sheet rock.

The center has a wall behind on the left and open space on the right. That really is a hopeless case if ever I saw one.

Quite honestly if that is your only option, I think a sound bar would be a better bet. That ambient field will be total chaos and I can understand why you have poor voice clarity.

We seem to run into this a lot now, with people installing AV in spaces that are totally unsuitable and where a cheaper simpler solution would likely be better.
 
N

NorCalRP

Full Audioholic
Oh dear! Just about everything wrong with that picture. Do you have another location?

You have the right and left right up against the side walls one brick and the other sheet rock.

The center has a wall behind on the left and open space on the right. That really is a hopeless case if ever I saw one.

Quite honestly if that is your only option, I think a sound bar would be a better bet. That ambient field will be total chaos and I can understand why you have poor voice clarity.

We seem to run into this a lot now, with people installing AV in spaces that are totally unsuitable and where a cheaper simpler solution would likely be better.
I both appreciate your replying to my post and find it completely unhelpful all in one. In response to what you said here are some possible solutions that perhaps you could help me out with:

1) Buy me another house;

2) Explain to my other half why we should move our baby into that room since her room has better acoustics;

3) Hire a contractor and pull the permits to get this room up to your specs- and gift me the cash or just give me an open ended zero interest loan to get it done.

Any of these sound like doable options from your standpoint? If not, how about simply saying that I ought to just keep the dialog level adjust on and set it as high as I find necessary?

I didn't come here to have anyone ostensibly drop a steaming pile on what I'm trying to do. Proper HT has been a dream of mine for well over 20 years. It wasn't until recently that I've had the opportunity to move on it. After 2 years of ACCEPTING a sound bar as my only viable option, and also risking my life at work to bring power to people's homes (during violent storms and actively burning wildfires), I feel entitled to have something with more dynamic impact.

While I may be a neophyte, relatively speaking, in this arena, I'm not a pushover or an ignoramus interested in, or willing to succumb to, unsolicited criticism from anyone ranging from family to a complete stranger. Capeesh?

p.s.- no need to tell me the proper spelling of that last word- I know the proper Italian is capisci.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I both appreciate your replying to my post and find it completely unhelpful all in one. In response to what you said here are some possible solutions that perhaps you could help me out with:

1) Buy me another house;

2) Explain to my other half why we should move our baby into that room since her room has better acoustics;

3) Hire a contractor and pull the permits to get this room up to your specs- and gift me the cash or just give me an open ended zero interest loan to get it done.

Any of these sound like doable options from your standpoint? If not, how about simply saying that I ought to just keep the dialog level adjust on and set it as high as I find necessary?

I didn't come here to have anyone ostensibly drop a steaming pile on what I'm trying to do. Proper HT has been a dream of mine for well over 20 years. It wasn't until recently that I've had the opportunity to move on it. After 2 years of ACCEPTING a sound bar as my only viable option, and also risking my life at work to bring power to people's homes (during violent storms and actively burning wildfires), I feel entitled to have something with more dynamic impact.

While I may be a neophyte, relatively speaking, in this arena, I'm not a pushover or an ignoramus interested in, or willing to succumb to, unsolicited criticism from anyone ranging from family to a complete stranger. Capeesh?

p.s.- no need to tell me the proper spelling of that last word- I know the proper Italian is capisci.
I'm just trying to explore if you have a better location. You only showed one end of the room. What is at the other end of the room? I find it hard to believe that is the only location possible. We often help people to choose a better location. That is the cheapest of upgrades we ever advise. I can see you spent significant cash on your system. That is why it is such a pity to have it hobbled right at the starting post.

So more pics may make it possible to advise a better layout.
 
afterlife2

afterlife2

Audioholic Warlord
Can you post a pic of the other side of the room?
 
Montucky

Montucky

Full Audioholic
I'm just trying to explore if you have a better location. You only showed one end of the room. What is at the other end of the room? I find it hard to believe that is the only location possible. We often help people to choose a better location. That is the cheapest of upgrades we ever advise. I can see you spent significant cash on your system. That is why it is such a pity to have it hobbled right at the starting post.

So more pics may make it possible to advise a better layout.
Agreed. I hate to admit it, but I've been guilty of that myself. I'd have it set in my mind where my TV should be, but if I only moved it to an adjacent or opposite wall, then boom, problem solved.

I don't know what OP's room is like, but it's definitely a question worth investigating.

I also agree that his room is going to be a challenging one. However challenges like this one can often be overcome with a bit of creativity. I'd also like to know more about OP's room to see what advice we can offer up.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I'd say the center is maybe 4" to 6" below ear height. My dialog level adjust goes +/- 12db and I usually have to have it +9db to +12db depending on the film. FWIW, I exclusively stream via Netflix, Prime, HBO Go, etc. Just haven't started going down the BluRay road. Tried to do my best to get the cc under the screen via an articulating mountView attachment 24723
I'd also be curious where you might put this elsewhere in the room. If not possible, you might experiment with the center's position a bit to see what might improve it. Maybe try putting the center on a make-shift stand centered in the room more (disregard the tv's position) and pull the L/R speakers in a bit to see if that is an improvement. I know you may not be able to keep them there due to traffic in the room, but might give you some improvements outside of changing speaker level....
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
I solved my center channel concerns just adjusting it by ear to match my mains in volume, using my pre/pro's tone generator. I listen to a lot of three channel material and seems the center channel is perfectly integrated. My center channel also sonically matches my mains, which made it very easy to understand level matching to the mains. In addition I used an iPhone db meter app to confirm what my ears told me. At any rate, you might try my technique; and, BTW, I don't think your room parameters are an issue at all. Just buy a few tapestries and a rug.
23825592441_e2c42919d3_z.jpg
 
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N

NorCalRP

Full Audioholic
Here it is. The choice of a) putting in a pull out couch and b) putting the TV on that nice, long blank wall are not mine to make. This is our guest room, which accommodates guests perhaps 3 weeks out of the year.:rolleyes: If we end up living here for the foreseeable future (not a given), I'll take the wall the TV is presently on all the way across and put a door in there. That would allow me to bring the right front off the sidewall. As it stands right now it's not an option in the immediate future. The center channel is 4in. off center in the room, btw. More immediate plans include dampening/anti-vibration measures as the two subs get the room shaking quite a bit.

The house is a 3bd/3ba. We don't have space for a dedicated theater room, and neither the living room or family room are an option- something we both agree on.
IMG_20180627_171314.jpg
IMG_20180627_171330.jpg
 
afterlife2

afterlife2

Audioholic Warlord
I thought I'd see a couch for for reason. :) I had a room like that. I think you should get a couch on the brick wall side and put the TV on the other side. I'm figuring you have 8-12(mine was 10) feet there? Also get a rug to put the speakers wires under the rug for the back speakers. I'll look to see if my photobuckets pics for my setup are still there and post them here.
 
afterlife2

afterlife2

Audioholic Warlord
Here they are:



Center with foam lift for direct contact with ears. Works great try it!
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Hi Wayne, I've appreciated your responses in other threads, so I'd like to ask an expanded question... does only the dialog increase, and if so how would this not affect other sounds coming from the center channel? Also, to your knowledge, are there LCR setups where the sensitivity of the center is higher thereby negating the need to set a higher dialogue adjustment? The reason is ask is because I use my system about 50/50 and when listening to music, I have to turn off the adjustment due to my preference to use the multi channel stereo mode.
If the Center Speaker had higher sensitivity and sounds louder for movies, it's also going to sound louder for MCH stereo mode also. :D

If you cannot change the placement of the center speaker (raising/tilting to ear level),there's no way around it. You'll just have to adjust the Center Level.

If you have an amp that has a gain level knob (like a Crown amp),you could adjust the Center Level easier just by turning the gain level knob.
 
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