Lost in the wold of speakers

[steve7647]

I am in the market for a new set of floor standing front speakers. I began doing some research and realized I’m am way over my head with these things. I just want a good set but don’t want to spend a fortune on them under $400 would be great for a set of 2. I have a 7.1 set and the rest of Sony shelf speakers. My front two are fisher speakers I believe. i was looking on amazon.com but with 2,000 plus results just made my whole situation worse. any advice would be great thanks.

 

[lietuvis91]

the answer to that depends on what you will be driving them with.

 

[sholling]

You realize that the center will need to match the L&R fronts so your Sony center will need to be replaced as well? You could go with a pair of Infinity P253 towers and a PC251 center for $450 including shipping. If you still want to hold off on the center then consider the P363 towers. They're very good for the money but everyone's taste is different and I'd try to find someplace close to give them a listen and make sure you like them.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For $400/pr budget, I would buy 2 of these Infinity P362 immediately before they are gone:

http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Primus-P362-Floor-Individually/dp/B000LKC372/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1310316956&sr=8-1

Here is the Stereophile review:
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/605infinity

Bottom line, they are accurate speakers and are arguably the best speakers money can buy for under $1,000/pr.

Later, you can buy the matching Infinity Center and surrounds.

For subwoofer, you can buy the BIC PL-200 subwoofer for $279 shipped. The PL-200 is essentially a HSU Reserach subwoofer, designed by HSU. It can produce 110dB @ 30Hz. For a low-end subwoofer, it is built nicely, weighs 50lbs, and has a 250Watts RMS BASH amp.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

For about same price (actually cheaper counting shipping) as p362 you could get updated model - p363 here:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_108P363BK/Infinity-Primus-P363.html?tp=185

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For about same price (actually cheaper counting shipping) as p362 you could get updated model - p363 here:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_108P363BK/Infinity-Primus-P363.html?tp=185

DenPureSound told me about that deal a few weeks ago, but I totally forgot about it!!!

Looks like BoredSysAdmin is on the ball this weekend, as usual!!!!!

Okay, I retract my recommendation on that P362. I agree with BoredSysAdmin 100% on the P363, which is a newer model and actually looks better aesthetically.

 

[steve7647]

I was not aware that if I replace my two front speakers I have to replace my center channel. That kind sucks due to my center is only a few years old and works well. I was looking in to the infinity Primus PC350 for a match. I then laid eyes on the matching Infinity powered sub, which has great sound reviews but supposedly has a high failure rate. Does it make a difference of the sub matches?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I was not aware that if I replace my two front speakers I have to replace my center channel. That kind sucks due to my center is only a few years old and works well. I was looking in to the infinity Primus PC350 for a match. I then laid eyes on the matching Infinity powered sub, which has great sound reviews but supposedly has a high failure rate. Does it make a difference of the sub matches?

I would just get the P363s for now.

Use your current center speaker and subs and see how they sound together.

They may just sound great.

The center speaker is basically for dialogues anyway, so the main things coming out of them are vocals.

Subs you don't have to match at all.

If you subs aren't great, you may want the BIC PL-200 for $279 shipped. It is a HSU-designed 12" 250Watts RMS subwoofer.

I'm getting a PL-200 for my Infinity P362 in the family room.

 

[DenPureSound]

Looks like my very old Infinity RS-625 front towers just died also. I think I purchased them back in the early 1990's. Heck they made it almost 20 years, not bad.

The only speaker in the cabinet that is alive is the Mid-Range from what I can tell. No wonder they sounded like BLAH -- no low range, no highs, just something in the middle.

Going to do some comparisons of the Primus P363, which looks awesome in specs for $400 delivered for both of them. Mostly listen to HDTV, and BD Movies.

Will be driving them with the Denon AVR-3311CI, along with the new Bic America Acoustech PL-200 subwoofer.

All reviews so far I have seen on the Primus P362/363 line are excellent for the dollars invested, and it won't totally break the bank.

BUT -- why not go with the Infinity Classia C336BK Three-Way Speaker (High Gloss Black, Each) $230 Each at Amazon and the list price each is $900, over the P363 Model ($199ea. w/ MSRP= $379).

What the heck happened, Amazon just went to $830 for the Classia's... boy they must be watching us here!!

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Great find
Vanns still sell them for $229/ea directly and on amazon....
Amazon stock says 12 left as of now...

 

[zieglj01]

BUT -- why not go with the Infinity Classia C336BK Three-Way Speaker (High Gloss Black, Each) $230 Each at Amazon and the list price each is $900, over the P363 Model ($199ea. w/ MSRP= $379).

Today, 08:14 PM
BoredSysAdmin

Great find
Vanns still sell them for $229/ea directly and on amazon....
Amazon stock says 12 left as of now...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

With the Vann's/Amazon price, I say go for it.
Surrounds
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/548499472/infinity-classia-c255esbk?s_c=site_search

And these can be used as surrounds
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Infinity+-+Classia+5-1/4"+2-Way+Bookshelf+Speaker+(Each)/2116068.p?id=1218310007792&skuId=2116068

 

[DenPureSound]

Great find
Vanns still sell them for $229/ea directly and on amazon....
Amazon stock says 12 left as of now...

Wow, how one read can change a persons mind... the Classia C336 fronts which looks like a great price, and it is, but considering the Minus's that they needed to move the FL/FR's out from the wall around 4 ft. from speaker grill to wall deeply bothered me, as I don't have that room. This must be from the fact that the port is on the rear of the speaker cabinet.

Also, the C336 have a little lower sensitivity 91db vs. 93db for the P363BK's.

And the C336 have a Wide Floor Bounce at 200Hz. followed by Narrow band irregularities beginning at 800Hz.

Noticed also that Infinity changed from the CMMD technology with Ceramic to just MMD when the newer P362 and P363's came out, as the drivers are even faster to push the harmonics farther out away from the audible frequency spectrum.

So, with all of that said -- here is the article:

http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/electronics/detail-page2/B0015YZQR2_review.pdf

So after much a do... most likely going with the Latest P363BK's -- notice the port on the front lower portion of cabinet vs. rear on the older C336's. Plus, that would give me another 3 or so years to purchase a CC to match Timbre, as required!

Notice on Audiogon there are NO P362's or P363's for sale ... only Classia's for Sale, and they are new also.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think the rear bass port on the rear is a factor if you are going to run the speakers full range.

But if you are crossing over @ 80Hz and letting the PL200 do all the heavy lifting below 80Hz, I think that rear port is insignificant.

The build quality on the C336 is going to be much better than the P363. You will get better speaker posts, finish, etc.

However, I don't think the cabinet resonance on the C336 is going to be a whole lot better.

And since Stereophile or Soundstage did not measure the C336, you can't compare it to the P363 in terms of on & off axis FR responses.

I think they will be very similar on the FR responses, though.

So personally, I would still pick the C336.

 

[3doubled]

I agree with the op, I am definitely lost as well.

I am looking along a similar line so I thought I'd post here. I'd been considering:

Infinity Primus P363s x2 ($199 each) + PC351 ($199) [~$600 total]

Infinity Classia C336 x2 ($229.88 each) + CC225 ($199.88) [~$660 total]

Energy CF-30 ($180 each) + CC-10 ($299) [~$660 total]

Energy CF-50 ($299 each) + CC-10 ($299) [$~900 total]

Energy CF-70 ($330 each) + CC-10 ($299) [$~960 total]

I have been trouble drawing comparisons between the speakers as they all started with vastly different MSRPs and I find the reviews are mostly relative to that metric. For example, audioholics reviewed the Classia C336 and (somewhat) blasted it at the $800/speaker price point, but fails to compare it with the, at the time, much less expensive Primus P363. Moreover, it is hard to understand what you get for moving up from the CF-30, to the CF-50 or CF-70... much less how the compare to the Infinity speakers.

There are a lot of great deals out there... but which one is right!! Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Obviously listening tests are king here, but as these are older speakers, it is not an easy task to find them all. Thanks!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I agree with the op, I am definitely lost as well.

I am looking along a similar line so I thought I'd post here. I'd been considering:

Infinity Primus P363s x2 ($199 each) + PC351 ($199) [~$600 total]

Infinity Classia C336 x2 ($229.88 each) + CC225 ($199.88) [~$660 total]

Energy CF-30 ($180 each) + CC-10 ($299) [~$660 total]

Energy CF-50 ($299 each) + CC-10 ($299) [$~900 total]

Energy CF-70 ($330 each) + CC-10 ($299) [$~960 total]

I have been trouble drawing comparisons between the speakers as they all started with vastly different MSRPs and I find the reviews are mostly relative to that metric. For example, audioholics reviewed the Classia C336 and (somewhat) blasted it at the $800/speaker price point, but fails to compare it with the, at the time, much less expensive Primus P363. Moreover, it is hard to understand what you get for moving up from the CF-30, to the CF-50 or CF-70... much less how the compare to the Infinity speakers.

There are a lot of great deals out there... but which one is right!! Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Obviously listening tests are king here, but as these are older speakers, it is not an easy task to find them all. Thanks!

Everyone has a different opinion for everything, and that is fine. We don't all have to agree.

So to me the most important thing about any reviews are the on-axis and off-axis frequency responses because they essentially tell you how accurate the speakers are.

Whether someone likes the speakers and thinks the speakers are "foward" or "laid back" is 100% subjective.

Just give me some honest on-axis and off-axis frequency response, anechoic chamber if possible, but pseudo-anechoic is okay too.

I'll audition the speakers and decide for myself if they are "forward" or "laid back" or just simply ACCURATE to my taste.

Of the speakers you listed and for their prices, I would pick the Infinity C336, which retails for $900 each.

The Infinity C336’s listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +2.22/–0.72 decibels from 200 Hz to 10 kilohertz. That is pretty accurate.

 

[zieglj01]

Of the speakers you listed and for their prices, I would pick the Infinity C336, which retails for $900 each.

I am with you on this one - the Classia.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am with you on this one - the Classia.

David Rich, who used to write for The Audio Critic, did an extensive review on the C336. Overall, he finds the C336 to be quite accurate both on measurements and subjectively - quite excellent overall performance in the price range of $1,800/pr. David Rich said the C336 outperformed other speakers he has auditioned in the price range.

So when you compare the C336 in the price range of $700/pr, they will outshine the competition easily.

Anybody wants to buy my 1 yr old Infinity P362 for $200/pr so I can buy those C336 for $660/pr?

 

[3doubled]

Anybody wants to buy my 1 yr old Infinity P362 for $200/pr so I can buy those C336 for $660/pr?

They are actually ~$460/pair, $660 with the matching center. An amazing deal considering their MSRP.

That said, I can't help shake the feeling that I'd be settling for an inferior speaker. It is one of those stupid, illogical moments where paying more would make me feel better! The $460/pair price makes me feel like the MSRP of $1600/pair was just ridiculous to begin with. I've been looking at a lot of new and used Paradigm Monitor series models and even the used Paradigm speakers don't lose their value anywhere near as fast as the brand new C336s. Technically the C336s would go head-to-head with the Paradigm Monitor 11's based off of their MSRPs. Yet even 4 or 6 year old used Monitor 11's are going for DOUBLE the C336s.

Is this deal actually that good or is it too good to be true?!?

Sorry if I'm being annoying, I understand you have a high opinion of both Infinity speakers, but this is my first attempt at purchasing decent speakers. I don't want to do something I'll regret so I'm trying to do my due diligence. I'm very grateful for everyone's advice.

[On a slightly unrelated note and perhaps I should just start a new thread...] Would pairing a set of Paradigm Monitor 11 v4 speakers with a different version center speaker (say the current v6) be a bad idea. I understand the idea of matching centers and floor-standing speakers and that sets are usually timbre matched, but how much would the same line of speakers vary from version to version? Is this something that anyone with half a brain would just avoid or something that people get away with frequently?

 

[its phillip]

Anybody wants to buy my 1 yr old Infinity P362 for $200/pr so I can buy those C336 for $660/pr?

If you want to deliver to Fort Worth, TX, I'd take em

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That said, I can't help shake the feeling that I'd be settling for an inferior speaker. It is one of those stupid, illogical moments where paying more would make me feel better! The $460/pair price makes me feel like the MSRP of $1600/pair was just ridiculous to begin with. I've been looking at a lot of new and used Paradigm Monitor series models and even the used Paradigm speakers don't lose their value anywhere near as fast as the brand new C336s. Technically the C336s would go head-to-head with the Paradigm Monitor 11's based off of their MSRPs. Yet even 4 or 6 year old used Monitor 11's are going for DOUBLE the C336s.

Is this deal actually that good or is it too good to be true?

Infinity & Revel are owned by the same parent company Harman International.

It was just a bad idea for them to sell a pair of Infinity speakers for $1,800/pr when the Revel F12 towers are only $1,500/pr!!!

So, of course, nobody bought the Infinity speakers when they could get the Revel high-end brand for much less!!!

It's like selling a Toyota Camry for $40,000 when the Lexus ES is only $35,000.

Everyone will differ on opinions, of course.

I own a pair of Revel Salon 2, KEF 201/2, and Linkwtiz Orion speakers. I also own a pair of cheap Infinity P362.

And I would personally pick the Infinity C336 speakers over some other speakers.

But you'll have to be the judge.