Looking to Buy Projector: A Few Questions..

E

El Chingon

Audiophyte
My first post here. I appreciate any input.

I'm building a new home and have dedicated a room about 17x17 for a "theater room." the room has no windows and was designed with a door that allows access to 3 of the 4 walls, from behind the wall.

Anyway, I 've decided that a projector is the best route to go. My budget for the projector and screen is about $2500.00. I've been looking at a couple of projectors in the 1500-2000 range. Today, I stopped by a high end theater store and was told to be leary of the "screen door" effect. However, without a side by side comparison of various projectors, I can't tell what they're talking about. The only model on display was a $10,000 projector (which of course was perfect).


My questions:

1) Can a good quality system be had in this range? If so, any recommendations based on what you guys own;

2) What is the screen door effect and the rainbow effect?

3) What is the benefit/downside to a fixed screen vs. a electronic screen which rolls up and down.

Thanks ahead guys.
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
Hi! And welcome. Always good to have new addicts, I mean members, around. Yes...members...buwahahahaha *AHEM*

1. Yes, but I can't recommend them personally. Check out Projector Central.
2. Screen door effect is seen with LCD projectors where you can see the grid of pixels. The Rainbow Effect is seen with DLP projectors. Due to the design, some people see rainbows and experience motion sickness. Most people don't, and if you don't, then great.
3. I don't think there's a real advantage, but you can generally find a higher value (price/performance ratio) in fixed screens. A well-tensioned electric screen will cost far more than an equally sized fixed screen of the same quality. Of course, the fixed screen doesn't disappear up into your ceiling when you're not using it.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
1. You can get a phenomenal projector for between $2K and $3K. The $10,000 projector you looked at, likely had the same DLP chip in it that you will find on the $3K Sharp Z2000 projector. So, the question really becomes "What are you actually getting for the extra $7,000?"

I did a side by side comparison (a-b test) between a $15,000 Runco and my personal $2,000 projector 3 years ago. Did the Runco look better? Yes! Did it look a LOT better? Not really. It looked marginally better, which is just ridiculous for a $13,000 price difference.

Anyway - the Panasonic AE900 and the Sanyo Z4 will be out in about a month and should be near the top of your list. They have highly adjustable mounting options. You can mount them completely at the rear of the room... or if you have behind the wall access, you could mount them behind the wall and project into the room. They both have full 1280x720 resolution, which means they carry the mark of being a true 'HD' projector.

2. Screen door effect exists on all fixed pixel display devices and is more accurately called inter-pixel gap. It is the very small space between two adjoining pixels where light is not able to shine through or be reflected. It exists on DLP, LCD, LCoS, SXRD, DILA, etc. projectors. Basically ALL projectors except CRT projectors have screen door. The question is, how close do you have to be to actually see the screen door effect (SDE). Well, with lower resolution projectors (853x480 like Optoma H31 or InFocus SP4805) or very poorly built projectors (business projectors) you may see the screen door effect anywhere closer than 2x screen width.

Well designed projectors like the Z4 and AE900 or the 1280x720 DLP home theater models will allow you to be as close, or closer than 1.5x screen width and not see the screen door effect. This is especially important as THX optimum viewing distance is 1.54x screen width for HD material.

In a nutshell? Get a decent 1280x720 projector and you won't be worrying about SDE.

3. Screens that roll up into the case develop waves in the fabric. All of them do. I have yet to see one, from any manufacturer, that does not develop waves. The only time they don't develop waves is if they are tab-tensioned (see photo below). This effectively keeps the screen flat and allows the screen to roll up into the case and out of the way. Perfect for the family room - worthless in the theater. Especially since a tab tensioned electric screen typically runs well over $2,000.00 while a fixed screen for under $1,000 can give superior results.

Superior?

Sure! You see, a permanently fixed screen of decent quality will come with a nice durable aluminum frame that easily bolts together. The screen material will bolt to the back of the frame and the frame itself will be covered in velvet which does a phenomenal job of absorbing any stray light that may hit it and properly frame the image which gives it more punch.



In a room like you are describing, going with a 100"+ wide screen and a couple of rows of seating seems possible and can turn out fantastic depending on the level of work you put into it. Whether it is contracted out to a pro, or a DIY job, having a large open room with no ambient light issues is key. From there, it is about getting the right stuff in there and getting it all set up for optimal quality.

Have fun! And, as said, spend a few hours/days/weeks reading through things over at www.projectorcentral.com as they have some excellent reading for you on projectors specifically. Then come back here for all your additional questions. :)
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
I hate to say this, but I think your $1500 to $2000 may or may not get you what you want. It could get you a decent projector, but not screen and projector. The price of quality 1280 x 720 DLP projectors with Darkchip 3's is dropping like a rock, though. This will give you a great picture on a 100" 16x9 screen. As far as screens, unless you really need a screen that retracts, I would stick with a fixed screen. Fixed screens are very durable since they use an alluminum frame. I personally have a Optoma H78-DC3 projecting on a 100" Stewart Luxus Deluxe Screenwall with Firehawk material. You don't need to spend that much money on a screen. Read the reviews on this site:

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/ProjectorScreenReview_01.html

The real question you need to ask is, "What type of material am I going to be watching?" If all you are going to watch is DVD's you can get away with a lesser projector like the Optoma H31. If you are going to watch high def material you will need a projector that will have at least 720p as native resolution (1280x720). Of course if you come into some big buck in the near future, there are some 1080p projectors coming out soon that will blow your doors off!

WELCOME TO OUR ADDICTION!
 
brian32672

brian32672

Banned
BMXTRIX said:
Anyway - the Panasonic AE900 and the Sanyo Z4 will be out in about a month
Wow, I read the owners manual on that Z4 (well I read at least 45-50 pages and briefed through the rest). That thing is awesome, it has more selections than I have ever seen. With the User selectable, the Preset modes, color correction modes, etc, That thing has like 24 different modes to put it in. Also 7000:1 contrast :eek: and 1000 lumens. This may well be a new projector for me. The only problem is, it does require maintenance being a LCD projector. You have to take it off the ceiling (likely thats how it will be mounted), so you can turn it on, then go into the menu and put it in clean mode, then unscrew the lcd panel screws, use the supplied blower and clean each panel RGB, while it is in clean mode there is a fan that blows from the side of the panels so the dust you are removing does not re-settle. Reverse to put together. Then turn off machine, and you have 2 filters that need to be cleaned. But the auto matic door is really cool, at least the lens won't need cleaning that often. So unless you will maintenance the unit, you may want to look at the Optoma H31 or another budget projector.

Also make sure you check to see if you are immune to the DLP projectors RBE effect. Or you will be sitting far enough away from a budget LCD for the SD effect. DLP's are not as prone to the SDE.

I disagree with majorloser, you should easily be able to get a kick-arse budget setup for 1500 - 2000.00 for a pj and 500.00 for the screen & accs. Heck my mom's setup is less than 900.00 (for screen and pj)(actual total 733.00 but was a deal from me) and she loves it... My setup (my 5th or 6th setup, going on my 7th)(clearly an addiction) is a little more (well alot more), however mom's setup is one of my old setups. And that thing rocks for a great picture out of the box.... Hmm, I'm thinking which pj that was.......... Oh yeah a Sharp XR-1S. That thing out of the box has a much better picture than projectors that cost 3-4 times the price. Only problem was, its kinda got 2 loud fans.

Oh, BTW on the SDE for DLP's. I could actually sit about 5' away from the XR-1S at a 96" screen with just a 2x color wheel and not see SDE, also no rainbows.... To actually see the SDE I would have to stand up, and go about 1' in front of the screen.
 
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RLA

RLA

Audioholic Chief
Also 7000:1 contrast and 1000 lumens. This may well be a new projector for me. The only problem is, it
When you are looking at contrast ratios and ANSI lumen specifications keep in mind that these are advertised marketed numbers released by the manufacture. Actual measured numbers may be a fraction of the advertised
number ;)
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Though apparently one of the places that got a pre-release of the AE900 sat down and while missing full lumen output, calibrated it fully and had somewhere in the 2,500:1 range for full calibrated contrast or something ridiculous like that.

I still have a PT-L300U projector with a sub 1,000:1 rated contrast ratio that I am still perfectly happy with.... These newer models are just blowing the doors off of $10,000+ projectors from even a few years ago.

Gotta wonder what will happen when some other companies can manufacturer DMD chips.
 
brian32672

brian32672

Banned
RLA said:
When you are looking at contrast ratios and ANSI lumen specifications keep in mind that these are advertised marketed numbers released by the manufacture. Actual measured numbers may be a fraction of the advertised
number ;)
Oh, trust me I know that... The Optoma I have has a claimed 3000 lumens. Hmm, more like 1900 lumens. But Optoma has always been inflated.
 
J

jbichsel

Audiophyte
brian32672 said:
Wow, I read the owners manual on that Z4 (well I read at least 45-50 pages and briefed through the rest).
Where can I find the owners manual for the Z4? It s one of the projectors on my short list and I'd like to be able to read the manual on it and others before I buy.

Thanks.

Jerry
 
E

El Chingon

Audiophyte
You guys have come through like champs. Thank you.

Are you guys all NASA engineers or what?

More questions to come (I'm sure).
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
El Chingon said:
Are you guys all NASA engineers or what?
No, but I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express.

Oh, I do live next to Cape Canaveral. :D
 
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