Looking to build a system, new to good sounds

[deathwantsme]

Hello. I'm brand new to the world of audio. I've mostly used stock equipment, but I recently bought a TV, and the sound was horrid. I bought a sound bar, which was an amazing upgrade, and started my curiosity and interest in what else I was missing out on in the sound world. Seems the tip of the tip of the ice burg has been espied, and I'd like to build a system. I don't expect I'll ever upgrade once I have something solid, I see this as a life time investment I'd like to do well. I don't watch a lot of movies, but since getting the big HD screen, its become a more enjoyable activity, and I've been doing it a whole lot more since I got it. The sound bar has been good for that too, and its made music a far more enjoyable experience. Just Friday, my friend and I were listening to "pepper" and we heard parts of the music we'd never heard prior, and it was great. I'm looking at building a 7.2 system. I figure that's all I'll ever need, will be perfect for movies, and do great with music.

Budget is all relative. Its easy to justify spending more, when you expect that you'll never put more into the system (excluding when the receiver or display breaks, or new video formats come out) If I were to upgrade things over time, it would certainly be room treatments, but not presently, as I'm going to move at least 3 times this year. I'm looking for the best value. The highest quality to price ratio I can get. I don't know my personal tastes, so I have no idea at which point I see diminishing returns, but I know I want to get to just before the point of diminishing returns.

I'm presently using a LG LM4600 display, with a Pyle PSBV200BT sound bar. I bought it assuming I'd get into audio after hearing the differences, and wanted something that would remain functional; which it most likely will as a speaker system for use on the back patio/yard, or in the garage.

I was looking at Pinnacle's speakers. The reviews are stellar when you find them, they are a small American company, been doing things for a while, and seem to be dedicated to their work. They also seem to be noted for value, and often go on sale at severely discounted prices. What I'm looking at piecing together is based off sales of theirs I've seen, so I'm using those figures.

Center:
BD 300 Center Channel
Retail: $499
Lowest seen: $179

Mains:

S-FIT TWR 1050
Retail: $1199/pair
Lowest seen: 298/pair

4 surrounds:

BD 500 Bookshelf
Retail: $579/pair
Lowest seen: $199/pair

Subs:

Baby Boomer Powered Sub
Retail $999
found for $299 about monthly.

Retail total: $4854
Pieced together over a few months: $1473

So I guess we can put my budget at $2000 for the 7.2 speakers, then we have the question of a receiver. Suggestions? Everything but the towers recommend amp power of RMS 15-125w, and the towers 20-200s. Is there a way to do 200w to the main L/R, but 125 to the rest? The mains are what gets used when listening just to music, right? Also, if something new is coming out, or a price drop is eminent, I can certainly wait for better valued receivers. I'm presently expecting to have to wait up to 4 months to have a complete system from what I'd found out there so far.

I probably look like I've got my mind set, but I'm certainly flexible. I've done some research on my own, and found what I think is the best value I can, but I also know I'm very new to this. I see myself as a deaf man who just discovered hearing, trying to figure out the best way to go about it before I've even experienced what hearing is about. I really appreciate all the input, advice, and experience anyone here would be willing to offer.

 

[shadyJ]

Monthly payments for an audio setup.. bad... Save some money and buy it all up front. I wouldn't get those towers. Two 4" woofers trying to take on bass? I don't see that having a good dynamic range at all. They wouldn't be my first choice by a long shot. Also, their subwoofer looks awful, it's likely to have a peakish frequency response and massive distortion below that point. It's not going to be worth anywhere near the absurd $1k price. My advice is to get a real subwoofer, and just use bookshelf speakers for the front stage. The main advantage of tower speakers over bookshelf speakers is their extended bass response, but the subwoofer will be taking over that range anyway and so negates the reason for getting towers.

I would lean toward some more powerful bookshelf speakers as well. Check out the Ascend CBM-170s, Hsu HB-1s, and HTD Level Threes. Get their corresponding centers, the CMT-340, HC-1, and Level Three center respectively. For a subwoofer, check out the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus, Rythmik LV12R, or Hsu VTF2mk4. Any of those will easily outperform the Pinnacle sub and cost a lot less, however they are all a lot larger. For surround speakers, you don't need fantastic speakers for that since surround channels are never called to do much, so just get some solid, inexpensive bookshelf speakers like these Infinity Primus p153 speakers for $75 each so a set of four would only cost you $300. To mount the speakers, use these Videosecu mounts, they are a incredible bargain right now for $25 a pair. Get your speaker cable from Home depot, just buy a roll of 14 AWG cable. Get your HDMI cable from bluejeanscable.com or monoprice.com. For a receiver, I would pair this setup with a mid range receiver from Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha, or Harman/Kardon, in the five to six hundred dollar area. Altogether, that would cost a bit over $2k, and I think it would be a lot better than an equivalently priced Pinnacle system.

 

[deathwantsme]

Monthly payments for an audio setup.. bad... Save some money and buy it all up front.

Not monthly payments, but I would have to buy a piece here and there as they went on sale. I also wanted to point out that if I can get something better, in my price range, but have to wait a while to get it, the wait is worth it to me.

I wouldn't get those towers. Two 4" woofers trying to take on bass? I don't see that having a good dynamic range at all. They wouldn't be my first choice by a long shot.

I like the look/thought of towers, those were affordable. Are there other options in the budget range? I realize that the subs will handle the bass, so that shouldn't be the biggest concern there, should it? Towers seem to make way more sense if I'm going to be listening to a decent bit of music, since only the L/R and sub channels will be in use, right? I'd assume that breaking the sound up to a few different drivers should be able to do better than the bookshelves will do. Am I off base?

Also, their subwoofer looks awful, it's likely to have a peakish frequency response and massive distortion below that point. It's not going to be worth anywhere near the absurd $1k price.

What do you mean peakish frequency response? Distortion below a certain frequency? I was drawn to his sub because its got 2 8"s in each cabinet. Same rationale behind towers over bookshelves for the mains. Also, 1k is way more than I'd be willing to pay. Just to be clear, that unit is often purchasable for $299, not sure if that changes anything.

To mount the speakers, use these Videosecu mounts, they are a incredible bargain right now for $25 a pair.

Those look incredible for mounting. I'm so glad you showed me them! Thank you.

Get your speaker cable from Home depot, just buy a roll of 14 AWG cable.

Going with 12AWG and sewall deadbolt banana plugs to connect things up. With me likely moving a few times, the secure connection and easy connect/disconnecting is worth the cost, and I should never need to rebuy them.


Thanks so far for the info. I need to really look at the front stage suggestions and see which of the three you suggested seems what I'd like to go with and get back to you. I'll hopefully be able to do that either tonight or tomorrow morning. Its been a busy day, but I really wanted to thank you Shady J.

 

[shadyJ]

I like the look/thought of towers, those were affordable. Are there other options in the budget range? I realize that the subs will handle the bass, so that shouldn't be the biggest concern there, should it? Towers seem to make way more sense if I'm going to be listening to a decent bit of music, since only the L/R and sub channels will be in use, right? I'd assume that breaking the sound up to a few different drivers should be able to do better than the bookshelves will do. Am I off base?

You are kind of off base. If you are using a direct two channel mode, yes, the sub will be off, but if you set your receiver to normal stereo operation, it leaves the sub on. If you have a good sub and have dialed it in well, you will want to use it even in stereo music, everything will sound much better. If you are set on tower speakers, here is a affordable one I would much rather have than the Pinnacle tower. Also, breaking the sound up into a few different drivers can help, but not always. The problem with those Pinnacle towers is a 4" driver is a miserable size for a bass woofer. A single 6.5" driver in any of the bookshelf speakers I mentioned has quite a bit more surface area than two 4" drivers, and so are likely much more capable with respect to higher output and lower distortion.

What do you mean peakish frequency response? Distortion below a certain frequency? I was drawn to his sub because its got 2 8"s in each cabinet. Same rationale behind towers over bookshelves for the mains. Also, 1k is way more than I'd be willing to pay. Just to be clear, that unit is often purchasable for $299, not sure if that changes anything.

Ok I see. $299 is a more reasonable price for that sub. It still wouldn't be my first choice when the Klipsch RW-12d goes on sale for $299 pretty regularly, or when you can get a Hsu STF2 for only $100 more. Again, as above, two 8" woofers doesn't have as much surface area as a single 12" woofer, and, all things being equal, won't have as much ability to displace air. By a peakish frequency response, I mean it will have a lot of output at a certain frequency and not much anywhere else. Ideally you want your sub to play every bass note equally loud, but subs with smaller drivers tend to play upper and mid bass frequencies much louder than lower frequencies, especially when they are a sealed design. I would gues that Pinnacle sub will fall into that catagory. Something else to look at is the Premiere Acoustics PA-150 which has been sown to measure well for the price, and has loads of output, although it won't have as flat of a frequency response or as much deep bass as the more expensive 12" woofer subs I mentioned in my first reply.

 

[deathwantsme]

Just found a used pair of Polk RT800i for $180. Seems like a steal, but I wouldn't have a "matching" center channel. Good price/performance ratio? How hard would a matching center be to find?