Looking for system help around $5K

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would go for two Revel F12 towers (front R/L), three M12 (Center/Surround L/R), and one B12 (subwoofer):

Plus the Denon AVR-4310:

Damn, makes me want to buy them just looking at them.

 

[GranteedEV]

http://www.wikispecs.org/images/InfinityBETA50.jpg

looks awfully similar to the revel.

I wouldn't be surprised if the infinity could sound really damn good with some crossover mods.

in which case, I don't think you could have a noticible improvement without getting into the 4-5k/pair range IE Salk HT2, Gedlee Abbey, Revel F52

 

[zieglj01]

http://www.wikispecs.org/images/InfinityBETA50.jpg

looks awfully similar to the revel.

I wouldn't be surprised if the infinity could sound really damn good with some crossover mods.

A crossover mod will bring them up another level - A liitle weak in
the upper midrange, and a slightly harsh treble.

 

[Davemcc]

Wow, outstanding responses, thanks everyone! This has been hugely helpful. The Salks weren't even on my radar, but after reading all of the reviews (thanks Swerd) I'm quite interested. Is there any way to audition it before buying or should I just do it?

With a Denon AVR4310, Salk SongTowers, SongCenter, NHT Superzero 2.0, and keeping my sub (which is actually quite good), we're looking at ~$3200. Throw in cables and stands for the center/surrounds and we're probably near $3600. Might use the budget headroom for some of the amazing woodworking upgrades on the Salks; some of those photos are stunning, especially the one-piece baffle with the burled veneer.

From what's been suggested, it sounds like the recommended equipment is an exceptional value. Equipment-wise, what would I gain by using the rest of the budget? For example, I'd had my eye on the Marantz SR7005 ($1600) receiver; is it worth the extra $600 over the Denon? Should I get the SongSurrounds over the NHT SuperZeros? Slerch suggested the B&W's (presumably the CM series, maybe a pair of CM8s + CM Center), which would get me near that level. Is that a worthwhile investment or should I just pocket the difference between the recommendation and the budget, which I'm happy to do?

Thanks again for the help, your responses have been revelatory for a n00b like me!

If there is room in the budget for speaker upgrades, I highly recommend the ribbon tweeter upgrade on the Songtower. I much preferred the upgraded model and consider it a significant improvement (even though it's not cheap).

 

[Boerd]

I would put most of the money in the speakers.
Mains: NHT Four Tower 1800$ oair
http://www.nhthifi.com/Tower-Speakers
for center and back for 275*3 = 725$:
http://www.nhthifi.com/Two-Black?sc=12&category=3772
NHT Sub for 700$:
http://www.nhthifi.com/Subwoofer-home-theater-B-12d?sc=12&category=3779

So far total is 3225$.
Add 3 stands * 150$ and the total is 3675$
Add cables and you're in the 3800-3900$ range
Then you have left more than plenty for a good 5 (or 7 channel) receiver.

 

[Boerd]

Just changed my mind - instead of 700$ NHT sub better get Rythmik D15SE for 1100$ and buy a second hand receiver or a cheaper one.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just changed my mind - instead of 700$ NHT sub better get Rythmik D15SE for 1100$ and buy a second hand receiver or a cheaper one.

I can definitely vouch for both NHT & Rythmik.

I've owned a NHT SW2P 10" 80Watts sub in the past. The NHT sub can't match the Rythmik sub in output. However, I think the NHT sub was very tight, clean, and articulate.

The Rythmik D15SE just has EVERYTHING going for it including aesthetics; talk about brain, brawn, and great looks.

 

[ryandaws]

If I sell my current equipment to offset the price, I can get the following for a modest budget extension:

Salk Veracity HT2-TLs (x2)
Salk SongCenter
Salk SongSurround I (x2)
Salk Song Sub (x1)
Denon AVR4310

Is it wise to pair the Veracitys with the rest of the Song-series equipment? Can the AVR4310 drive them to their potential, or would I need an amp for that? I read the Audioholics review on the HT2 and have pretty much decided I have to have it...

 

[GranteedEV]

If I sell my current equipment to offset the price, I can get the following for a modest budget extension:

Salk Veracity HT2-TLs (x2)
Salk SongCenter
Salk SongSurround I (x2)
Salk Song Sub (x1)
Denon AVR4310

Is it wise to pair the Veracitys with the rest of the Song-series equipment? Can the AVR4310 drive them to their potential, or would I need an amp for that? I read the Audioholics review on the HT2 and have pretty much decided I have to have it...

IMHO Song Surrounds are very expensive for that purpose. I would personally get the V3 and V3 Center over the HT2 and SongCenter, and get lesser surrounds. I don't know about the Song Sub - I think i would get a good SVS, Rythmik, Seaton or Funkywaves sub instead TBH.

My underatanding is that the V3 is also an easier amp load than the HT2's. It's a newer design so it doesn't get much publicity, but that would be my Salk choice.

 

[its phillip]

There is a veracity center, so I would get that instead of the songcenter. I would also get something other than the songsub.

 

[Swerd]

IMHO Song Surrounds are very expensive for that purpose. I would personally get the V3 and V3 Center over the HT2 and SongCenter, and get lesser surrounds. I don't know about the Song Sub - I think i would get a good SVS, Rythmik, Seaton or Funkywaves sub instead TBH.

My understanding is that the V3 is also an easier amp load than the HT2's. It's a newer design so it doesn't get much publicity, but that would be my Salk choice.

I strongly disagree with that advice. I've heard both the V3 and the HT2-TL, and there is a good reason why the V3 is less known and less popular - it just doesn't sound nearly as wonderful as the HT2-TL.

Both the V3 (86 dB) and the HT2 or HT2-TL (88 dB) are easy loads for most AVRs. So that is not an issue. If anything, the HT2-TL is 2 dB more sensitive than the V3. Salk's sensitivity ratings do tend to be more conservative than many others.

The V3 Center is a very large speaker, 38" wide × 14" tall × 14" deep. The HT Center is 22" wide × 9" tall × 14" deep. If you can swing the cost, the HT Center would be a perfect match for the HT2-TLs, but I think the SongCenter wouldn't be enough of a mismatch to be a problem.

 

[GranteedEV]

I strongly disagree with that advice. I've heard both the V3 and the HT2-TL, and there is a good reason why the V3 is less known and less popular - it just doesn't sound nearly as wonderful as the HT2-TL.

Both the V3 (86 dB) and the HT2 or HT2-TL (88 dB) are easy loads for most AVRs. So that is not an issue. If anything, the HT2-TL is 2 dB more sensitive than the V3. Salk's sensitivity ratings do tend to be more conservative than many others.

The V3 Center is a very large speaker, 38" wide × 14" tall × 14" deep. The HT Center is 22" wide × 9" tall × 14" deep. If you can swing the cost, the HT Center would be a perfect match for the HT2-TLs, but I think the SongCenter wouldn't be enough of a mismatch to be a problem.

Is it because of the vented bass vs ML-TL bass and hi-res magnesium seas excel drivers?

Because I would expect a 3-way with a 4" titanium midrange to have a smoother midrange and wider sweet spot than a 2-way MTM with 6.5" drivers crossing to ribbons.

You're the Salk expert though

 

[Swerd]

Is it because of the vented bass vs ML-TL bass and hi-res magnesium seas excel drivers?

The SEAS W18 magnesium drivers, in my opinion, make a big difference.

The bass tuning of the cabinets were both pretty good. If there were differences, I don't recall noticing them.

Another possibility is the narrower cabinet of the HT2-TL, but I really think its the W18 drivers.

Because I would expect a 3-way with a 4" titanium midrange to have a smoother midrange and wider sweet spot than a 2-way MTM with 6.5" drivers crossing to ribbons.

I can see why you might think that, but the 2-way MTM and its crossover creates noticeably better soundstage & imaging than the 3-way and its crossover.

The V3 is a good speaker, but the HT2-TL is wonderful.

 

[GranteedEV]

Interesting. I really don't know much about that visaton but those seas drivers are probably among the best drivers in the world. What are your thoughts on the 3-way HT3 and Soundscape, if you've heard them?

 

[Swerd]

You haven't heard the Soundscape, right?

I have heard the SS10, but not the SS12. It is a much better 3-way than the HT3. The most noticeable differences were better bass and completely different imaging.

The SS10 and HT3 share the same 10" woofer, but the SS10 bass cabinet is larger and better tuned. For the HT3, a smaller cabinet was chosen for a variety of reasons, and one major result was that the impedance was much lower, requiring a BIG IRON amp. The SS10 uses a larger cabinet and passive radiators instead of bass reflex tuning. It goes deeper and is easier to drive.

The midrange driver in the SS10 & 12 speakers has an open back similar in concept to the Jim Holtz Statements. You can vary the polyfill stuffing, or close the backs to achieve different balances between the midrange front wave and its back wave reflecting off rear wall surfaces. I find it hard to put into words, but you can vary the soundstage depth (and the front/rear image placement of a recording's musicians) to fit your tastes and your room. When you finally get it adjusted, the speakers can just disappear - you hear three dimensional sound, but you cannot locate the sound source by ear.

In comparison, the HT3 has an apparently less deep soundstage, the images sound a bit more removed (as in farther away from the listener), and it cannot be as easily varied.

 

[GranteedEV]

I have heard the SS10, but not the SS12. It is a much better 3-way than the HT3. The most noticeable differences were better bass and completely different imaging.

The midrange driver in the SS10 & 12 speakers has an open back similar in concept to the Jim Holtz Statements. You can vary the polyfill stuffing, or close the backs to achieve different balances between the midrange front wave and its back wave reflecting off rear wall surfaces. I find it hard to put into words, but you can vary the soundstage depth (and the front/rear image placement of a recording's musicians) to fit your tastes and your room. When you finally get it adjusted, the speakers can just disappear - you hear three dimensional sound, but you cannot locate the sound source by ear.

The soundscape uses a 3" accuton midrange. The accuton ceramics are just as good as the Seas Excels (but more fragile in 2-ways as excursion rises... they'll shatter if you bottem em ), and since it's 3", the dispersion is going to be phenominal. Everything about the SS design just screams wicked. Me wanty

 

[Swerd]

The soundscape uses a 3" accuton midrange. The accuton ceramics are just as good as the Seas Excels (but more fragile in 2-ways as excursion rises... they'll shatter if you bottem em ), and since it's 3", the dispersion is going to be phenominal. Everything about the SS design just screams wicked. Me wanty

Dennis told me about his disaster with the ceramic Accuton 6.5" midwoofer in a MT design. It sounded great, but when he pushed the volume the $300+ ceramic driver went POOF in a cloud of white dust. He had two of those drivers, so thinking the first driver was defective, he replaced it and turned both of them into rather expensive piles of ceramic trash.

To return to the OP's quest, the Salk speakers I recommend are the SongTower, the HT2-TL, or the SoundScape depending on how much you want to spend. Personally, I'd avoid the V3 or the HT3.

 

[GranteedEV]

Dennis told me about his disaster with the ceramic Accuton 6.5" midwoofer in a MT design. It sounded great, but when he pushed the volume the $300+ ceramic driver went POOF in a cloud of white dust. He had two of those drivers, so thinking the first driver was defective, he replaced it and turned both of them into rather expensive piles of ceramic trash.

To return to the OP's quest, the Salk speakers I recommend are the SongTower, the HT2-TL, or the SoundScape depending on how much you want to spend. Personally, I'd avoid the V3 or the HT3.

I know it is bigger, but wouldn't the V3 center paired with the HT2 or Soundscape have a wider sweet spot than the HT2 or SS Center? I might even go with the HT1 bookshelf if the room isn't HUGE.

 

[Swerd]

I know it is bigger, but wouldn't the V3 center paired with the HT2 or Soundscape have a wider sweet spot than the HT2 or SS Center? I might even go with the HT1 bookshelf if the room isn't HUGE.

I don't really know . The only V3 I've seen is in Dennis Murphy's house. He uses it with a large wall-mounted projection screen along with DIY left & right speakers based on the Ellis 1801 design. They are 3-ways with Hiquphon OW1 tweeters, SEAS W18 mids, and some large paper 10" or 12" woofers. There is a passive 2-way crossover between the mid and tweet, but the woofers are filtered actively as if they were subwoofers, and powered separately.

I listen carefully to speakers using two channel music. If I like them and actually plan to buy them (I've owned 3 pairs of speakers since 1973), I focus on finding a center channel speaker that does voices well and blends well enough with the other front speakers without doing any noticeable harm - a center channel speaker that doesn't leave a hole in the middle. I only use it for movies and I don't bother with 5-channel music, so I don't put a center channel speaker to the same scrutiny that I do for the main speakers. It makes life simpler.