Looking for some help on a new room

[Eppie]

Depends on what you expect from the speakers. The Satellites have a much smaller woofer and only go down to about 70Hz while the bookshelves go down to 48Hz. The Satellites are more often used for surround duty or height speakers. Either way I think you want a subwoofer. The Satellites can be purchased as a 2.1 package with an SB-1000Pro sub. While ported subs are generally preferred, the SB-1000 is fairly compact and should be fine for casual viewing.

With the bookshelves on a credenza you likely will not have room for a centre speaker and would be best off with a 2.1 setup. With the Satellites mounted further apart on the wall, you might have room for the Prime Center but keep in mind how tall that speaker is (7-3/4"). If SVS has free returns in your area, you can always try the centre speaker and return it if you find that it does not add enough benefits.

 

[BrokeEF]

Depends on what you expect from the speakers. The Satellites have a much smaller woofer and only go down to about 70Hz while the bookshelves go down to 48Hz. The Satellites are more often used for surround duty or height speakers. Either way I think you want a subwoofer. The Satellites can be purchased as a 2.1 package with an SB-1000Pro sub. While ported subs are generally preferred, the SB-1000 is fairly compact and should be fine for casual viewing.

With the bookshelves on a credenza you likely will not have room for a centre speaker and would be best off with a 2.1 setup. With the Satellites mounted further apart on the wall, you might have room for the Prime Center but keep in mind how tall that speaker is (7-3/4"). If SVS has free returns in your area, you can always try the centre speaker and return it if you find that it does not add enough benefits.

First up, always planning on having a sub. Right now I have a 15" sealed in that spot that is powered by an NX1000D, but I would likely change it to something a bit smaller in overall size. Depending on what the wife pics for the furniture will constrain my options. I should be able to fit the PB-1000 PRO or the SB-2000 PRO at a minimum. I am curious how the SB-1000 would sound though, and since I DO have a local retailer that carries SVS I may give that a shot.

What did you mean by this?
"With the bookshelves on a credenza you likely will not have room for a centre speaker"
Is the concern the width of the speakers, or the height difference between them? I could potentially put bookshelf's on the wall as well, but I am not sure if I want to.

 

[Eppie]

First up, always planning on having a sub. Right now I have a 15" sealed in that spot that is powered by an NX1000D, but I would likely change it to something a bit smaller in overall size. Depending on what the wife pics for the furniture will constrain my options. I should be able to fit the PB-1000 PRO or the SB-2000 PRO at a minimum. I am curious how the SB-1000 would sound though, and since I DO have a local retailer that carries SVS I may give that a shot.

What did you mean by this?
"With the bookshelves on a credenza you likely will not have room for a centre speaker"
Is the concern the width of the speakers, or the height difference between them? I could potentially put bookshelf's on the wall as well, but I am not sure if I want to.

Yes, the spacing between the speakers. If the 3 front speakers are too close together then they can interfere with each other. Typical spacing on a credenza does not allow for a centre speaker and that kind of spacing tends to produce a decent phantom centre image any way. Height difference is not as much a concern. The centre can be above or below the screen as the goal is to anchor the dialogue to the screen. The front 3 should be on the same plane if possible but if you are using an AVR the speaker distance settings can help compensate for that.

Members here will always recommend ported subs when possible as they generally perform better but many people have space constraints. I went with the SB-2000Pro for that reason and have been very happy with that sub. It extends down to 20Hz with room gain and has plenty of output for a small to moderate size room. I don't get the impression that you are after seat shaking bass, as this is a casual viewing area, so a single sub should suffice. RSL makes good subs in that size as well but I would avoid micro subs like the SVS 3000 Micro. Those are more akin to compact bass speakers than true subwoofers as they can't produce very deep bass.

 

[BrokeEF]

Yes, the spacing between the speakers. If the 3 front speakers are too close together then they can interfere with each other. Typical spacing on a credenza does not allow for a centre speaker and that kind of spacing tends to produce a decent phantom centre image any way. Height difference is not as much a concern. The centre can be above or below the screen as the goal is to anchor the dialogue to the screen. The front each of the front 3 should be on the same plane if possible but if you are using an AVR the speaker distance settings can help compensate for that.

Members here will always recommend ported subs when possible as they generally perform better but many people have space constraints. I went with the SB-2000Pro for that reason and have been very happy with that sub. It extends down to 20Hz with room gain and has plenty of output for a small to moderate size room. I don't get the impression that you are after seat shaking bass, as this is a casual viewing area, so a single sub should suffice. RSL makes good subs in that size as well but I would avoid micro subs like the SVS 3000 Micro. Those are more akin to compact bass speakers than true subwoofers as they can't produce very deep bass.

Yeah that is what I was thinking on the width. I will have to measure to be sure, but because of the switches on the left side of the screen I am limited on the overall width. I think it would be the same width on the wall vs on the credenza since we are looking at wide options. The one she was leaning toward last night was 96" I think.

I will try and get some measurements tonight. I can always add a center later if I feel its warranted. My limited experience doing a phantom center wasn't my favorite. That was a very long time ago though. I remember it was OK, but I liked it better with a center. I also tend to run my center a little hot, which is not really an option for a phantom center.

Last up, I will be running the largest ported sub I can I am mainly just curious how the sealed ones would sound, but I know ported is the answer. Again it really depends what the wife pics for the furniture what can fit in the remaining space. The one she was looking at yesterday would leave plenty of room for a PB-2000. You know.... now that I am saying this maybe I can bring the 21" from the basement up here

Here is a pic of it in our last house.

 

[Eppie]

I also prefer having a centre and added an in-wall to our living room setup a couple of years ago but the fronts were spread very far apart due to door openings in that room. From your photo, I think you can imagine how close the speakers would be to the centre if you had bookshelves on the cabinet in that setup. Phantom centre works best when you are directly in front in the main listening position. If you have seating to the side, like a corner couch, then the centre helps anchor dialogue to the screen. I see your point about running the centre hot.

My last bit of advise is if you go with a centre speaker, don't scrimp. I originally used a cheaper model centre as I could not afford the matching centre at the time. I could really notice the difference between the mains and that centre. When I finally obtained the matching centre it was a huge improvement. The SVS Prime centre is a proper 3-way design (with the tweeter above the mid) and if you go with SVS they do have that generous return policy. Can't go wrong with any of their subs.

 

[BrokeEF]

Alright, things are happening! We had the couches removed on Saturday, and then spent most of the day cleaning and prepping the room. We also went to go see Project Hail Mary on Saturday, so we didn't get a ton of time on it. Here is a pic from Sunday after I ran the carpet cleaner over it.

We also repainted the wall behind the couch since it was a little beat up and we had the paint.

Here is a shot of the front of the room from Saturday while we were moving everything around.

The antenna was temporary, and will be getting replaced with something more powerful in the attic. I need to figure out some things about placement still. Everything in this wall is a challenge, but I will get it figured out. I think we are ordering the cabinet today, whatever one the wife picked out. Once I know for sure, I will mark out the dimensions on the floor. The new couch will be here Thursday which will be nice.

 

[BrokeEF]

Cabinet has been ordered. Off the top of my head it was 94.5" wide, which makes the left hand side even with the right side of the single switch. The TV is 67.5" wide, so its about 13.5" wider than the TV on each side. I say about because I am not 100% sure on the numbers off the top of my head, and I am not going to look them up right now.

Anyway, that is leading me to want to go with bookshelf speakers sitting on the very outside edges of the stand. That is as wide as I can put the speakers as it is regardless if they are on the walls or the stand, so may as well make my life a bit easier. Again, keep in mind that this is a second system and its mainly just for TV and YouTube watching. We are going to go check out the SVS options tomorrow. I was already showing her the PB-2000 which should JUST fit to the right of the cabinet, and the Prime bookshelf's. She wasn't thrilled with the prices, but that's nothing new LOL

Anyone have any other suggestions for speakers and sub? I think I have ~18" on the width for the sub. The place we are going to carries a lot of higher end brands, so I am sure we (or maybe just I) will be looking at, and listening to as many as I can.

 

[Eppie]

From a price / performance view you may want to look at RSL subwoofers. Speedwoofer 12S is only $885. If it will be located close to the couch, even the 10S MKII would likely be good enough in that space for occasional viewing. You could even afford two of them.

There are so many options for bookshelves but I suspect that you have size limitations. Were you planning to move the TV up higher? Would need to know your budget. If you want a matching centre that will limit options as well.

Prime Bookshelves are $700 on Crutchfield. In that same range you could look at KEF and Polk Audio (Reserve line). KEF and Polk make good centre speakers as well. Maybe Dali Opticon 2? Besides the SVS Prime, for a little more there is the SVS Ultra Evolution Nano, Focal Theva No.1 and Paradigm Premier 200B. They may have Monitor Audio as well.

I'm not a big fan of Klipsch and find the speakers fatiguing but some like their sound. Avoid their cheap subwoofers. Best to stick with the RP series. The store will likely carry B&W but some models are known to have nasty impedance curves that stress amplifiers so either avoid them or do careful research.

It's going to come down to personal preference so listen to as many as you can. While the PB2000Pro is a great sub, for TV and Youtube I would lean towards saving money on the sub and concentrate on getting two really good front speakers. For what you save moving from the PB2000 to an RSL 12S you can significantly increase your budget for the bookshelves.

 

[BrokeEF]

From a price / performance view you may want to look at RSL subwoofers. Speedwoofer 12S is only $885. If it will be located close to the couch, even the 10S MKII would likely be good enough in that space for occasional viewing. You could even afford two of them.

There are so many options for bookshelves but I suspect that you have size limitations. Were you planning to move the TV up higher? Would need to know your budget. If you want a matching centre that will limit options as well.

Prime Bookshelves are $700 on Crutchfield. In that same range you could look at KEF and Polk Audio (Reserve line). KEF and Polk make good centre speakers as well. Maybe Dali Opticon 2? Besides the SVS Prime, for a little more there is the SVS Ultra Evolution Nano, Focal Theva No.1 and Paradigm Premier 200B. They may have Monitor Audio as well.

I'm not a big fan of Klipsch and find the speakers fatiguing but some like their sound. Avoid their cheap subwoofers. Best to stick with the RP series. The store will likely carry B&W but some models are known to have nasty impedance curves that stress amplifiers so either avoid them or do careful research.

It's gong to come down to personal preference so listen to as many as you can. While the PB2000Pro is a great sub, for TV and Youtube I would lean towards saving money on the sub and concentrate on getting two really good front speakers. For what you save moving from the PB2000 to an RSL 12S you can significantly increase your budget for the bookshelves.

Haven't looked at RSL in a while, those look like nice options. I also checked out HSU of course. As of now, the only plan for a sub is that front right corner between the cabinet and the wall. I can MAYBE (but I doubt it) can get the wife on board with a second to the left of the cabinet. There is nowhere else in the room they could go.

I don't know the budget quite yet. I would say probably under $1,000 for the pair. I agree with all the rest of what you said for speakers This store (ABT in IL) carries almost everything mentioned here and a few more.

I am not planning on raising the TV, but I can. I guess I should double check the height of the stand, and see how much space there would be for a possible center channel.

 

[Eppie]

Haven't looked at RSL in a while, those look like nice options. I also checked out HSU of course. As of now, the only plan for a sub is that front right corner between the cabinet and the wall. I can MAYBE (but I doubt it) can get the wife on board with a second to the left of the cabinet. There is nowhere else in the room they could go.

I don't know the budget quite yet. I would say probably under $1,000 for the pair. I agree with all the rest of what you said for speakers This store (ABT in IL) carries almost everything mentioned here and a few more.

I am not planning on raising the TV, but I can. I guess I should double check the height of the stand, and see how much space there would be for a possible center channel.

Yes, Hsu is another very good make. Audioholics reviewed both RSL models:

RSL Speedwoofer 12S Subwoofer Review - True 16Hz Extension!

The RSL Speedwoofer 12S builds on the venerable 10S MK2 but with a larger 12” driver and enclosure with 16Hz extension for only $800. We reviewed the 12S to see if RSL has a class leader subwoofer again.

www.audioholics.com

RSL Speedwoofer 10S MKII Review: Improved Performance, Great Value!

The popular RSL Speedwoofer 10S received a redesign to take advantage of modern innovations in audio technology. The RSL Speedwoofer 10S MKII has been completely redesigned. To find out how, read on.

www.audioholics.com

 

[Alex2507]

I liked the SVS Prime bookshelf speakers I heard. They were like a grand for the pair at the time. Decoupling them from the cabinet is important. Otherwise the cabinet is like a monstrous bass resonator that won't easily be quieted with raising the cross over point. I'm living with a situation like that with our bedroom system but have somehow balanced it out using a small 10" sealed SVS sub. It's a small bedroom as far as bedrooms go with the speakers on a dresser. I'm not missing the center at all. The dialogue is clear.

Another secondary system in a much bigger room also lacks a center. It too has crystal clear speech intelligibility if that's the term. My thought is that the Hiquphon OW1 tweeters used in those speakers are freakin' amazing. I'm confident the Prime Bookshelves would be up to the task of producing a good phantom center image.

I think the need for a center gets minimized as the quality of the mains goes up. As a secondary, casual system even the need for great bass goes down. It sounds like you have some varied bass options so I would say to funnel as much as possible into the mains and then decouple them with these pads. On wall mains makes me worry about energizing the wall and there's no easy way to quiet that down.

By prioritizing the mains you leave yourself open to a high quality center down the line as opposed to limiting the mains at the outset for a maybe already less-than center.

Good luck and good to see you again. Oh, and hell no to the false wall business. Framing, drywall, taping, painting and baseboards ... how is that cheap? They're still trying to build a wall on our southern border and look at how that's going. You've got all the walls you need.

 

[Wardog555]

There is nowhere else in the room they could go.

Entirely false. You have a wall with a window. another wall next to it with some spots. another with railings. And the giant waste of space in the middle of the room.
You need to test all locations as one will perform best. I highly doubt the 12s is enough for this room honestly. Larger rooms need more sub performance. Welcome to try it and replace it if necessary.

You have great potential for the room. Careful planning is required.

 

[Kingnoob]

Yeah that is what I was thinking on the width. I will have to measure to be sure, but because of the switches on the left side of the screen I am limited on the overall width. I think it would be the same width on the wall vs on the credenza since we are looking at wide options. The one she was leaning toward last night was 96" I think.

I will try and get some measurements tonight. I can always add a center later if I feel its warranted. My limited experience doing a phantom center wasn't my favorite. That was a very long time ago though. I remember it was OK, but I liked it better with a center. I also tend to run my center a little hot, which is not really an option for a phantom center.

Last up, I will be running the largest ported sub I can I am mainly just curious how the sealed ones would sound, but I know ported is the answer. Again it really depends what the wife pics for the furniture what can fit in the remaining space. The one she was looking at yesterday would leave plenty of room for a PB-2000. You know.... now that I am saying this maybe I can bring the 21" from the basement up here

Here is a pic of it in our last house.

Well If you have a 21" sub then go for it … perfect for such big room.

 

[BrokeEF]

Thank you guys for the help and advice! While I still have not made any concrete decisions, we did go listen to some gear yesterday. Also, before we dive into that, the couch showed up yesterday!

Maybe give a better idea of why we don't have many placement options. I could probably get something small behind the couch in the corner, but getting wire over there would be a pain in the ass. Plus there will also be some kind of lamp there as well. The wife wanted to get the couch before deciding on a lamp.

ANYWAY, we went to ABT and got to listen to a fair amount of things! They did not have the SVS Prime bookshelf speakers, but more on that in a bit. I found the SVS Prime Satellite speakers, and was surprised by how small they actually were.

As I said they did not have the SVS Prime bookshelf, but they did have the Ultra Evo Nano bookshelf (no pic)

We listened to both with a mix of various music, with and without a sub, as well as with the SB-100, PB-1000, and for the heck of it the PB-5000

SVS Sub line up in that listening room

They had a SB-1000 and PB-1000 next to each other in the middle of the same wall the speakers were on. That helped make sure we were getting as close to a fair comparison from both as you can expect in that environment.

I must say the Satellite's with the SB-1000 was a fantastic combo for music. I was really very impressed, but that sub does well in that mid-bass area which becomes apparent when you change up the music type or go to a movie. The Evo Nano bookshelf's also were very impressive and able to stand on their own for music. Adding a sub helps of course, but they sounded great without. For the heck of it we also tried to swap to a set of Focal bookshelf speakers that were in the same ballpark price as the Nano's and neither of us liked them in comparison. The wife was not thrilled with a "BIG" sub, and was pushing toward a SB of some kind (we did also try the SB-2000 for a very short time). Then SHE asked to demo a movie, and he put on the race from Ready Player One. Which is a scene we both know very well, as I use as a demo often. She immediately had to concede that SB-1000 was not able to handle it. She was still very happy with the Nano/PB-1000 combo though. This was a very large room BTW, not a small well treated demo space like others we went to next.

After that, we decided to play with some crazy stuff

Starting small, we listened to some SVS Ultra Evo towers, I believe these were the Titan's ($1,999.99 ea)

In that same room, we swapped over to some Focal Scala Utopia Evo ($19,999 ea)

And we finished the tour with some B&W 801 D4 Signature in California Burl Gloss ($30,000 ea)

We had a pretty good time listening to some crazy stuff. Its always a great time going to this store for nerds like me

Anyway, we did not purchase anything yesterday. We talked a lot on the way home, and I had to show her that the 15" that we had up in the room for years WAS actually bigger (in most dimensions) than the SVS subs we saw. I think the plan is the PB-2000 Pro sub, and eventually the Ultra Evo Nano bookshelf's.

The cabinet might be coming tomorrow, but I also think she may have said they moved delivery to Monday. Either way, as the room comes together I will update this thread.

 

[BrokeEF]

We got the cabinet yesterday and she's a big bitch!

I got home a little late, and ended up on a call so I didn't finish it 100% but its close to done.

Looks pretty good for a cheap cabinet, I just need to add some holes between all of the different areas for wiring. I will get that done, and then start moving my gear back in. I also need to order up new cables for everything, I keep forgetting about that.

 

[Eppie]

That's a good size cabinet, all right.

Nice set of wheels, BTW. You should post a photo in the "cars" thread.

cars

If it's just one then either the early 70s Mach I or the fastback. This one has a 429 cobra. The Boss is the ideal but is waaaaaaay up there in price. Third would be the coupe, and it has the best grille IMO. But isn't considered muscle. The coupes have gone up in demand driving the prices...

forums.audioholics.com

 

[BrokeEF]

That's a good size cabinet, all right.

Nice set of wheels, BTW. You should post a photo in the "cars" thread.

cars

If it's just one then either the early 70s Mach I or the fastback. This one has a 429 cobra. The Boss is the ideal but is waaaaaaay up there in price. Third would be the coupe, and it has the best grille IMO. But isn't considered muscle. The coupes have gone up in demand driving the prices...

forums.audioholics.com

That is my buddies 68 Chevelle SS that I am doing some work on. We do Sick Summer, and we are taking that car again this year. He handles the street driving, I take it down the track, and just because of time I do most of the work on it.
This is a pic from 2024, before we cleaned up the wheels LOL

My car is up on the lift above it, its a 1999 Trans Am with a 25.2 chassis. Still a work in progress

Ill have to read through that thread and add some pics

 

[BrokeEF]

Been a little slow going on this project since we have a few others going as well. I got the cabinet assembled and started test fitting equipment.

I decided to take the RBH bookshelf speakers from the basement and do some testing yesterday. Ignore the mess, we cleaned it up later.

This was just a general test of connections, usage etc. I also really wanted to see how it would handle a phantom center. Spoiler alert, it doesn't. If you get off axis at all, which we probably will be a lot of the time it falls apart. I did not fully calibrate everything because it was just a test, but I cant imagine it getting a ton better. The bookshelf speakers on their own did sound a ton better than the TV, no surprise there. Overall it was much better for everything. I put on a movie and the wife admitted it was a lot better. Then we both moved off center and immediately said it was no good. It would just sound like they were anchored to which ever speaker you were closer to.

I might bring the center up from the basement as well just to test that. I need to figure out the final layout and then order up some cables. I already was not able to put the receiver where I planned on, which is why I wanted to test everything out as much as possible first

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I vote for the B&W 801 or Focal Utopia variations. No cheap or garage speakers.

 

[BrokeEF]

I vote for the B&W 801 or Focal Utopia variations. No cheap or garage speakers.

The wife DID like the 801's just not that specific finish. Lucky for her, there are options