looking for "better" PC to reciever solution

S

scott911

Full Audioholic
I did some searching on this forum found some threads that ended up with some less that audioholic solutions - i.e. use the minijack to a pair of RCA jacks from a pc card, etc...

So, I'll appreciate your input gang! A couple guiding cusions follow:

* In PC, or USB sound card? In past, internal cards always suffered from much more noise. but better cards now claim sheilding, etc.

* Digital "RCA" or optical? I've seen lots on conflicting info on with to us - I get the sense it really doesn't matter - and can be based on what you sound card puts out. My run, for what it's worth, is about 40 feet between PC and amp.

* OR LAN Cat 5 connection to another "box" like a appleTV, etc. I was planning to control my music organivation app *( itunes with lossless AAC encoding) with am I-phone - it has a built in wireless connection to the computer. ~But the down side is that I'd have to always have one of our iphones near by, unless I walked to the computer. Does anyone have experience and/or recommendations on one of the set-top music streamers?

Thanks,
Scott
 
strube

strube

Audioholic Field Marshall
i.e. use the minijack to a pair of RCA jacks from a pc card, etc...
This actually isn't that bad of a solution for stereo or multichannel. It really depends more on your audio hardware.

In PC, or USB sound card? In past, internal cards always suffered from much more noise. but better cards now claim sheilding, etc.
USB sound hardware will never have as much bandwidth to work with as a PCIe or PCI soundcard. This bandwidth is very important for hardware-to-software interfacing. There are audiophile-grade sound cards. They have amazing noise rejection (they don't need shielding because of their noise-rejection electronics, but the Asus brand cards and newer SoundBlaster cards have it as a bonus). Unfortunately, the software is not very stable - mediocre at best for all the higher-end sound cards, but it is what it is. Auzentech (X-Fi based) and Asus make mainstream audiophile grade cards, and Creative Labs X-Fi is only a slight step below. I have heard only terrible things about Asus's software, and a bit better for the other two.

Digital "RCA" or optical? I've seen lots on conflicting info on with to us - I get the sense it really doesn't matter - and can be based on what you sound card puts out. My run, for what it's worth, is about 40 feet between PC and amp.
40 feet is quite a bit, but I would still consider the difference to be minimal. Obviously the optical cable is immune to EMI from things the cable is run past, but the coaxial RCA cable is well shielded, so I doubt it would matter. I use optical because I had the cable and interference immunity can't be bad.

There are now a few HDMI sound cards to choose from as well that will output 1080p video (though a graphics card interface), DD-TrueHD, and DTS-MA. Unfortunately their poor software support makes them nearly unusable at this time. I am waiting for this technology to mature.

OR LAN Cat 5 connection to another "box" like a appleTV, etc. I was planning to control my music organivation app *( itunes with lossless AAC encoding) with am I-phone - it has a built in wireless connection to the computer. ~But the down side is that I'd have to always have one of our iphones near by, unless I walked to the computer. Does anyone have experience and/or recommendations on one of the set-top music streamers?
I personally prefer your other options. I would rather have a fully functional PC that you can customize completely than one of these "user-friendly" (i.e. less features and flexibility) satellite boxes. I use a Logitech DiNovo Mini bluetooth keyboard and can do anything I want, though my PC is also hooked to my TV, so I can see what is going on.


EDIT: Windows XP has what I believe to be a better audio subsystem. I HATE Vista because they "improved the audio stack" which means they took features away that allow you to output analog and digital at the same time. I don't know what they did to the audio quality by changing it (probably nothing), but since I have 2 zones hooked up to my PC (main is on optical, zone 2 only works with analog), I can't accept Vista as an option. Also, Creative's audio software (and Auzentech's) basically have to emulate XP's audio stack to work. This means constant extra processing has to be done if you have Vista.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I did some searching on this forum found some threads that ended up with some less that audioholic solutions - i.e. use the minijack to a pair of RCA jacks from a pc card, etc...

So, I'll appreciate your input gang! A couple guiding cusions follow:

* In PC, or USB sound card? In past, internal cards always suffered from much more noise. but better cards now claim sheilding, etc.

* Digital "RCA" or optical? I've seen lots on conflicting info on with to us - I get the sense it really doesn't matter - and can be based on what you sound card puts out. My run, for what it's worth, is about 40 feet between PC and amp.

* OR LAN Cat 5 connection to another "box" like a appleTV, etc. I was planning to control my music organivation app *( itunes with lossless AAC encoding) with am I-phone - it has a built in wireless connection to the computer. ~But the down side is that I'd have to always have one of our iphones near by, unless I walked to the computer. Does anyone have experience and/or recommendations on one of the set-top music streamers?

Thanks,
Scott
Using Cat5e and a set of baluns works well. If you have an audio card with S/PDIF or optical and need to change to optical or S/PDIF, that's about $30 + cable.

I'm going about 80' with Cat5e and RCA plugs soldered on and I know I have the best sounding garage system in my area. No noise, no noticeable loss of highs or lows and totally trouble-free. Optical would be preferred because it can't have a ground loop issue.

I have a friend who has tried just about all of them- Sonus tended to lock up at the end of the playlist, Squeezebox wasn't without its faults, and a couple of others that I can't remeber. He said they "just weren't ready for prime time", from his standpoint as an integrator. He bought a DLO iPod dock that has an RF remote and this works very well, even through his steel siding. We just installed one in an apartment in Chicago and were getting close to 80' of range, with 100' stated in the specs (with no obstructions). It shows artist, playlists, genre, controls volume, play, pause, stop and skip < >. It's about $135 at BB and called the DLO Music Station.
 
Nemo128

Nemo128

Audioholic Field Marshall
Are you running just audio or also video to your setup?
 
S

scott911

Full Audioholic
well, origioanlly, was just thinking audio.

I was going to run a video line for the heck of it, just to surf -big screen style - just to see what it was like, but my 99% emphasis was on audio. My reciever will take in every concievable input so, why not...

But, then strube mentioned the combo cards - video and audio I guess - So I'm not sure if that's a route I should take. I've just learned of the hdmi option carrying both vid and audio today...
 
strube

strube

Audioholic Field Marshall
well, origioanlly, was just thinking audio.

I was going to run a video line for the heck of it, just to surf -big screen style - just to see what it was like, but my 99% emphasis was on audio. My reciever will take in every concievable input so, why not...
If you have HDMI on your TV (or an AVR), I think running one cable would be great. But keep in mind, having video run to a TV is a matter of practicality or convenience, but it wouldn't be any good for a "surfing" screen. TV pixels are very different from computer monitor pixels. Text is hard to read unless it is fairly large (even on 1080p TVs) or you are VERY close, and even then you can get a headache doing it for too long. However, if your goal is just to browse iTunes/WMP/Winamp to find your next song, or to watch a downloaded movie or TV show, it is wonderful.

But, then strube mentioned the combo cards - video and audio I guess - So I'm not sure if that's a route I should take. I've just learned of the hdmi option carrying both vid and audio today...
If you tell me more about your current PC (what kind of video card, sound card, operating system, motherboard), I can make some recommendations on getting HDMI from your PC to carry digital audio and video, then you could buy a single, high quality HDMI cable in the length you need from Monoprice.com for cheap, and only run one cable **assuming you have HDMI on your TV/AVR**. With a wireless keyboard and mouse, you could basically have your primary PC have a secondary purpose of being an HTPC, which is probably a fairly cheap way to go.
 
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S

scott911

Full Audioholic
the doctor is in - thanks Strube!

Thanks for the offer of assistance Strube, i really appreciate it.

I have - Sherwood Newcastle, via Axiom. ~model r-872 (upscaling, upconversion, and 4 HDMI 1.3a) - Have a single Blue Jeans HDMI cable running from Sherwood to a 1080P Samsung LCD.

Computer is a mid range Dell, onboard sound (soundblaster) and on board video (geforce analog). I think Model is 9200 - AMD chip. 8 gigs memory.

Audio is 2.1 with Axiom product.

I store music on fast SATA enterprise Seagate drives - origionally encripted to 256 kdps, but am now slowely starting to overwrite to lossey now that drive space basically doesn't limit anything.

My bride and I both have iphones - which can serve as remote controlls showing cover art, allowing access to playlists, etc. However, haveing the computer / i-tune interfacte on the big screen might be quite nice.

A couple years ago I had a dedicated box pushing windows display to a tube TV - that display was unacceptable and I instead ended up keeping a small laptop in audio cabinet to send music to amp.

Now, a better PC in study (40 foot wire run from Sherwood) is a more convient place to keep music files, etc...

Either I just get a nice audio card - probably with a digital coaxial RCA out becasue that's what most of the affordable ones have - and direct the show with an i-phone "remote".

Or you convince me to take care of video now as well... recall that onboard card is vga output, with shared system memory - so at some point a video upgrade is in cards as well if that factors in...

either way - I'm all ears! thanks again.
 
strube

strube

Audioholic Field Marshall
I am probably going to recommend you get a new video card with HDMI and an internal connector from the sound subsystem to pass digital audio to the HDMI (if it is in your budget). I don't really know what your budget is but I will be as budget conscious as possible because if you were happy with onboard video, anything will be an improvement. I will also recommend a variety of sound card options as it seems you aren't happy with the onboard solution.

Would you mind telling me a total budget range you are looking at for the upgrade so I can recommend based on that?
 
S

scott911

Full Audioholic
Budget? is that how this "hobby" works?! :)

The truth is, I'm not unhappy with the onboard video and sound. I just know those integrated solutions are always substandard to dedicated cards. After a long time - {coming from Human speakers (my grand dad's pride and joy) and a Denon component system I bought - probably in '87 } - I've now just gotten my dream Axiom and Sherwood system and am thinking some investment in the area we're discussing now would be worthwhile.

As mentioned, one of my main goals is 2.1 channel listening and this connection will be a primary "feed" so I want this to be pretty good quality. Ok - I still haven't answered your question - probably becasue I don't know what's reasonable to spend.

Spending a hundred on each card would seem reasonable to me I think... If your recommended solution is more, I can always wait and watch for sales, or for more cards to begin to support HDMI...

As an aside possibly worth mentioning - although I'm really not a fan of what I've read about Apple TV to date and have no plans to start getting videos from the apple store, I do have a $200 gift cert. to the apple; that would essentially make the apple tv option free...
 
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strube

strube

Audioholic Field Marshall
Spending a hundred on each card would seem reasonable to me I think... If your recommended solution is more, I can always wait and watch for sales, or for more cards to begin to support HDMI...
Well I think that is workable. I get the impression you aren't a hardcore PC gamer, so a video card can be had on-the-cheap so to speak.

Depending on how "audiophile" you want to go, you can spend upwards of $300 on an audio card, but I am not sure those are worth it to you.

:mad: Well I was going to recommend the video card I have in my HTPC but it is discontinued, and so far the newer ones don't include the cable you would need to interface with a high end soundcard...

I'll get back to you.

While I am at it, I need to know if you have the proper slots available in your PC. You need a PCI Express x16 slot for the video card and depending on the sound card you get, you need either a PCI Express x1 slot or a regular PCI slot.
 
F

FLMike

Audioholic
I use a Squeezebox

Scott,
I actually use a Logitech (formerly Slimdevices) Squeezebox 3 with great results. I am hooked up via wireless and am able to stream WMA lossless with virtually no issues. It has the added benefit of allowing integrated access to Rhapsody, which I enjoy, and as an added benefit it serves as a wireless bridge for my X-Box. I use the original remote, but they have also added a new controller (sold seperately) and a proudct called Duet that you should check out. They have an audiophile product as well called the Transporter. Specs look great, but I have never seen it in person. They have a great online community too.
http://www.slimdevices.com/

If you want to go with an internal soundcard, check out
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.family&ID=PCIinterfaces
They are a musician oriented company and take sound and driver support seriously. I have a Delta-66 that is the oldest PC component that I own. I bought it around 1999 and it is in at least its third, maybe fourth pc.

Mike
 
strube

strube

Audioholic Field Marshall
If you want to go with an internal soundcard, check out
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.family&ID=PCIinterfaces
They are a musician oriented company and take sound and driver support seriously. I have a Delta-66 that is the oldest PC component that I own. I bought it around 1999 and it is in at least its third, maybe fourth pc.
The problem with M-audio cards is that they are pro-oriented IMHO. They are designed with features for musicians (i.e. recording, reference stereo output), not media enthusiasts (i.e. multichannel digital and analog audio). Don't get me wrong though, M-audio makes great, robust stuff (I have their Studiophile AV 30 speakers for my laptop).

EDIT: I might have been completely wrong about the multichannel comment:eek: - but I will still stand by my pro vs. enthusiast assessment:D
 
F

FLMike

Audioholic
Great Point

Strube,
Great point. They are definitely musician oriented--which from my perspective translates into a sensitivity to fidelity. I bought that card for recording and fell in love with it for playback. Since I use it for music exclusively, not gaming or multichannel, it works for me. It does support surround via passthrough. I have not used them, but they have a two model line called Audiophile that looks interesting as well. It also says a lot to me that the company is still providing updated driver support to a product that I bought almost a decade ago. In a world of planned obsolescence, that is simply rare.

Mike
 
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S

scott911

Full Audioholic
Dell Inspiron 531 desktop
ASUS M2N61-AX motherboard specifically designed for Dell machines. It uses an nVidia nForce 4 chipset with an on-board video card. It also has on-board sound (Realtek HD or AC-97). and vista, sorry.
PCI: 2 Slots (all slot are full height.)
PCIe x1: 1 Slot
PCIe x16 : 1 Slot
no, I'm not a gamer...
Thanks.

In another site, I'm seeing machine might have: Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic with Dolby 5.1
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio - perhaps the on board audio is sufficiant - although there is no exposed digital out ion back, but a jumped might be on main board...
 
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strube

strube

Audioholic Field Marshall
In another site, I'm seeing machine might have: Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic with Dolby 5.1
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio - perhaps the on board audio is sufficiant - although there is no exposed digital out ion back, but a jumped might be on main board...
You pretty much need to go with Nvidia HDMI video cards to do what I am trying to recommend because ATI cards just do a software emulation output to the HDMI port instead of the audiophile friendly hard-wired solution.

If there is a jumper on the mainboard for digital audio out, then this would be really easy, and if you didn't like it you could buy a soundcard. The problem is, the video card I have came with 2 interface cables: one that was for a jumper-to-jumper internal connection to the motherboard, or alternatively, the other had a RCA on one end for coaxial audio from a high-end sound card and a jumper connection for the video card on the other. All the new video cards only come with the jumper-to-jumper connector, and I haven't yet determined if any of the decent sound cards have an internal digital audio out on them. I will find out though. Worst case scenario you have to make your own RCA to jumper cable, which I don't foresee being extremely difficult.
 
strube

strube

Audioholic Field Marshall
This is what I would recommend for a video card (regardless of sound solution you/we come up with) $68 after rebate.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121267

There are some (most) SoundBlaster X-Fi products that have internal SPDIF connectors for the HDMI integration with the video card, and the Auzentech X-Fi Prelude (which would be my preference for audio) should have internal SPDIF, but I can't seem to locate the pinout diagram for its internal output pins. Either would be a great improvement over your current audio solution.
 
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strube

strube

Audioholic Field Marshall
If you go with a SoundBlaster X-Fi card (which would be fine, I have always thought they were good enough, though the Auzentech and ASUS is supposedly a very small amount better sound quality-wise), there is a pinout diagram at this link:

http://www.driverheaven.net/audio-general-technical-discussion/51505-soundblaster-live-audigy-1-2-x-fi-pinouts.html

that would be all you needed to interface with the video card.

This card would sound great IMO, compared to any onboard audio solution, and should interface with the graphics card I mentioned above (don't be put off by the XtremeGamer moniker, all this stuff is marketed to gamers):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102005
 
R

rumble

Audioholic
I'm using an old xbox running the open source xbox media center software. It will stream just about any audio file format over a network. Output is converted to Dolby digital(the old xbox had an nvidea soundstorm chipset), and sent via optical to my avr. Everything stays digital until it hits the receiver.

All audio is stored on a network attached file server in ogg vorbis. Video is stored in xvid formatted files.

Has a great video interface, the open source programmers have done fantastic job imho.
 

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