Looking for advice/suggestions (speakers, sub, AVR)

[iridium]

Hello. Fairly inexperienced consumer behind this post. Let me start by saying thank you to all who try to lend me a hand. Also, I ask that you be patient with me, as I likely won't understand any "industry" terminology you may use (though if you use it, I will look up its meaning on my own, so don't worry about trying to explain it for me; I'll ask questions if I don't understand what I find)

I'm looking to put in a decent audio system for my living room (mainly for TV/movie audio, but some music as well). I don't have a room that I can turn into a home theater, so I get to throw my money at this setup. As the title states, I'm looking for advice on what speakers, sub, and receiver to get.

The space is an open room, the seating area is ~12' x ~14' with a vaulted ceiling. If you're facing the TV, then there's an outside wall on your left and on the right is open space leading to the front door, formal dining room and kitchen (which is "behind" you, when facing the TV; kitchen is open as well, so it's more like one big open space with an island defining the kitchen vice the living room). I have a built-in that covers the entire wall where the TV is at. I mention these factors because it pretty much eliminates in-wall speakers.

I do want to redesign my built-in (the current one came with the house), in-part to give room for a powered sub, but I have other reasons for it too. Re-designing won't have an impact on the issues above, so in-wall speakers will continue to not be an option.

I'm not really a fan of floor-standing speakers, but given that I don't have many options, I'm open to them. I have hardwood flooring, so if these are my best/only option for rears/sides, then what options do I have for padding, to ensure the sound doesn't cause them to vibrate (if that's even an issue)?

For a receiver, I was looking at the Onkyo 818. A little excessive, but I want to buy for "tomorrow" not for today, if you know what I mean (without going wild on what I spend).

No real fixed price, but if I can keep this under 4k or so, I'd prefer to do that. Again, with the expectation that if/when I move into a larger home, I can put what I have into a media room and it will be more than sufficient.

Sorry for the lack of brevity in my post, wanted to cover as much as I could in anticipation of questions.

Thanks again for any/all help!

 

[Steve81]

What kind of aesthetics (size and finishes) would be preferred/accepted? For example, a couple of Outlaw LFM-1EX subwoofers would do a great job filling in the low end of your system, but they aren't exactly small.

 

[Pyrrho]

If you are looking to buy for tomorrow rather than today, you should focus on speakers (including subwoofer). Those do not need to be changed when some new format comes out, whereas receivers and some other electronics do need to be changed if you want to have the latest formats. So, the first thing is to listen to as many speakers as you can stand to listen to, and of as many brands and as many types (e.g., ribbons, domes, horns, whatever) as you can. I personally recommend, for most people for a home theater, bookshelf speakers for all channels other than subwoofer, and a good subwoofer (or two or more) to handle the bass. I use identical bookshelf speakers for all channels other than the subwoofer, and have a couple of subwoofers for the deep bass.

Focussing on the speakers is important both for tomorrow (as mentioned above), and for today, as speakers affect the sound more than the other components. Thus, if you want the best sound for the amount of money spent, you should try to maximize the investment in speakers, and minimize the investment in electronics. Most people do this totally wrong for the best sound, because it is easy to see that a larger number of watts power output is better than fewer, and it is easy to see that more features are better than fewer (if all else is equal). But it is hard to "see" the advantage in good speakers over lesser ones, and so most people scrimp on speakers when that is where they should put most of their money, if they care about the actual sound that they hear.

 

[iridium]

What kind of aesthetics (size and finishes) would be preferred/accepted? For example, a couple of Outlaw LFM-1EX subwoofers would do a great job filling in the low end of your system, but they aren't exactly small.

I know someone that has an HSU VF-15, and it seems to be similarly sized (in terms of width/depth). That's definitely too large of a footprint. If it's even feasible, I'd rather go with 2 subs of smaller size instead of 1 sub that size. Something half that size would be better, but not more than three-quarters that size if half isn't an option.

I'm not overly concerned with finishes, if I don't like the finish, I can always figure out a way to fix that.

 

[Pyrrho]

I know someone that has an HSU VF-15, and it seems to be similarly sized (in terms of width/depth). That's definitely too large of a footprint. If it's even feasible, I'd rather go with 2 subs of smaller size instead of 1 sub that size. Something half that size would be better, but not more than three-quarters that size if half isn't an option.

I'm not overly concerned with finishes, if I don't like the finish, I can always figure out a way to fix that.

With subwoofers, you can have small, good, or relatively inexpensive. You can only have two of those (and if you are not careful in your selection, you will not get even two of those).

If just the amount of space on the floor is the issue, consider something like these:

Maximum Performance Ported Cylinder Subwoofers - SVS

 

[iridium]

If you are looking to buy for tomorrow rather than today, you should focus on speakers (including subwoofer). Those do not need to be changed when some new format comes out, whereas receivers and some other electronics do need to be changed if you want to have the latest formats. So, the first thing is to listen to as many speakers as you can stand to listen to, and of as many brands and as many types (e.g., ribbons, domes, horns, whatever) as you can. I personally recommend, for most people for a home theater, bookshelf speakers for all channels other than subwoofer, and a good subwoofer (or two or more) to handle the bass. I use identical bookshelf speakers for all channels other than the subwoofer, and have a couple of subwoofers for the deep bass.

Focussing on the speakers is important both for tomorrow (as mentioned above), and for today, as speakers affect the sound more than the other components. Thus, if you want the best sound for the amount of money spent, you should try to maximize the investment in speakers, and minimize the investment in electronics. Most people do this totally wrong for the best sound, because it is easy to see that a larger number of watts power output is better than fewer, and it is easy to see that more features are better than fewer (if all else is equal). But it is hard to "see" the advantage in good speakers over lesser ones, and so most people scrimp on speakers when that is where they should put most of their money, if they care about the actual sound that they hear.

Yeah, that's what I've gathered from the lurking I've done on this and other forums. I'm definitely not looking to pinch pennies when trying to pick out speakers, because I know that's where my investment really needs to go. I only mentioned the receiver I was looking at getting so that I could get feedback on that as well (or suggestions on what might be a better option).

Right now I'm not able to go out and demo speakers, but any help I can get on narrowing down brands would be much appreciated. You know, the typical "stay away from xyz if you want quality over quanity" or "brands xyz are the better options, if you don't mind spending more than 200 per speaker".

I'm also going to be researching places I can go to demo various speakers once I get back home. But I'd like to be able to find out who has demos of what I want to check out, instead of just walking in and listening to what ever is available. If that makes any sense?

 

[Pyrrho]

Yeah, that's what I've gathered from the lurking I've done on this and other forums. I'm definitely not looking to pinch pennies when trying to pick out speakers, because I know that's where my investment really needs to go. I only mentioned the receiver I was looking at getting so that I could get feedback on that as well (or suggestions on what might be a better option).

Right now I'm not able to go out and demo speakers, but any help I can get on narrowing down brands would be much appreciated. You know, the typical "stay away from xyz if you want quality over quanity" or "brands xyz are the better options, if you don't mind spending more than 200 per speaker".

I'm also going to be researching places I can go to demo various speakers once I get back home. But I'd like to be able to find out who has demos of what I want to check out, instead of just walking in and listening to what ever is available. If that makes any sense?

First you need to select the speakers in order to know what sort of amplification you need to drive them. But for most speakers that are easy enough to drive, I would look at the bottom end of the Yamaha Aventage line of receivers for best value. For the most part, more money in a receiver will not affect the sound with easy to drive speakers, assuming that one does not engage some feature that affects the sound.

In my case, I ran a receiver that retails for around $600 with speakers that retailed for over $6000. I wanted more features on my receiver (as well as newer features), and so I replaced it with a receiver that retails for about $1700. Unless I engage a feature that affects the sound, it sounds the same as before. Now, the newer more expensive receiver can put out about twice the power of the old one, but the old one could drive my speakers to levels that I found painful with crystal clarity, so the extra power is useless in my case, so it really made no difference other than features.

With $4k to spend, I would not spend so much on the receiver as you have in mind, unless the particular speakers I wanted required it. I would look to spend $600 or less on the receiver for a $4k system. Some people, though, value some features more than sound quality, or value bragging rights on power output, and they will select according to their preferences.

Speakers are very subjective, largely because no matter what you buy, and no matter how much it costs, something else will be better in some way or other. I recommend that you listen to Magnepan speakers for full range ribbon/planar speakers, and try to find some ribbon tweeter speakers with conventional woofers, some speakers with dome tweeters (which is most brands these days) and some speakers with horn tweeters (Klipsch is the most commonly recognized brand for such speakers). Try to find different brands of different types of speakers, as some companies may implement a particular type of technology differently from some other companies, and consequently you may love a type of speaker when done by one company, and hate it when done by another.

 

[iridium]

Sound quality and clarity are my more important factors. I couldn't care less about "oh I've got the Binford 4800 receiver, more power, augh augh augh" nor about "hey, I just got the new blah-blah, cost me uber moneys and I had to import it from overseas". One thing I do want is to be able to have zones, so that if I want to extend audio into the kitchen area, or eat-in area (just off the kitchen), I'll have that ability. I also want the receiver to support 3-d video, so that I don't have to run my blu-ray player to my TV for video and the receiver for audio.

Again, thank you for the insight, it's all very good information to consume.