"LIVE PRESENCE"

[mulester7]

.....what is it to you?.....here's what it is to me....

.....the better the live presence, and you might as well go ahead and say the timbre of the speakers, the closer the person is to you singing without a mic into a megaphone.....some speakers make it sound like that megaphone is 200 yards long....some make it sound normal length....add tremendous imaging/point, and Bose gets left behind, I love 'em, but,.....

.....please, a couple of you brave-hearts tell us what you hear, and discern, as your yardstick for speaker purchases....if you say you buy for the low-mids down, you probably won't be talked to much during the next coffee/pee-break comin' up.....

.....and I'm going to add, it really sounds like the actual person is there, natural, singing into the normal-length megaphone......

 

[RMK!]

.....what is it to you?.....here's what it is to me....

.....the better the live presence, and you might as well go ahead and say the timbre of the speakers, the closer the person is to you singing without a mic into a megaphone.....some speakers make it sound like that megaphone is 200 yards long....some make it sound normal length....add tremendous imaging/point, and Bose gets left behind, I love 'em, but,.....

.....please, a couple of you brave-hearts tell us what you hear, and discern, as your yardstick for speaker purchases....if you say you buy for the low-mids down, you probably won't be talked to much during the next coffee/pee-break comin' up.....

.....and I'm going to add, it really sounds like the actual person is there, natural, singing into the normal-length megaphone......

Are you taking your medication?

For me the clarity of the mid-high make all the difference. Not sure I understand the megaphone analogy. For me, the vocals need to sound natural and as close to a live performance as possible. Not like in the room un-amplified, but like a voice sounds at a live performance in a small nightclub, with good acoustics and sound system. Wasn't the megaphone Eddie Canters device?

 

[mulester7]

Are you taking your medication?

For me the clarity of the mid-high make all the difference. Not sure I understand the megaphone analogy. For me, the vocals need to sound natural and as close to a live performance as possible. Not like in the room un-amplified, but like a voice sounds at a live performance in a small nightclub, with good acoustics and sound system. Wasn't the megaphone Eddie Canters device?

.....Hidog, the meds are covered by railroad insurance, haha....if I ever need any....used a little white pill one time during my extremely high anxiety levels during the trouble with the ex....felt the weight of the World come off my shoulders as I popped two right up front....I was told the stuff was highly addicting, and I would not be able to refill....things worked out fine....then, I seemed to break through to dealing with all humans just fine and comfortably.....

.....I guess I could say some speakers make the group sound close and live-natural sounding....some make the group sound much further away and muffling sets in full-range, actually.....somebody else, what do you listen for at the speaker store?......

 

[j_garcia]

Doesn't it depend on what you're listening to? Are we talking 2ch or multi-channel?

I want it to sound like headphones, where the sound seems like the stage is about 10-20 ft away and the band is right there. The core vocals should sound like the singer is right in the center, but everything else should sound like it is coming from one large "panorama" if you will, with instruments correctly placed on the right or left. Depth depends on the recording - live recordings should give me the feeling of a large or small venue, while still sounding like I had the best seats in the house.

 

[mulester7]

Doesn't it depend on what you're listening to? Are we talking 2ch or multi-channel?

I want it to sound like headphones, where the sound seems like the stage is about 10-20 ft away and the band is right there. The core vocals should sound like the singer is right in the center, but everything else should sound like it is coming from one large "panorama" if you will, with instruments correctly placed on the right or left. Depth depends on the recording - live recordings should give me the feeling of a large or small venue, while still sounding like I had the best seats in the house.

.....very good response....let's say we're listening to speakers in a store you might consider for your treasured mains, JGarcia....two speakers in left-right stereo....and we're looking for one main standout quality......

 

[Tempest]

While I do understand that what I'm about to write does at least partially concern stereo imaging, there certainly are other elements involved.

What I really like is when I close my eyes and get a vision of where the individuals in a jazz band are standing/sitting. I don't really give a crap whether that information is there because the engineer was exceptional. My jazz CDs (Miles, Coltrane, Evans, etc.) sound very nice through my current system, but I'm sure some better speakers would improve things.

 

[j_garcia]

.....very good response....let's say we're listening to speakers in a store you might consider for your treasured mains, JGarcia....two speakers in left-right stereo....and we're looking for one main standout quality......

I listen in mostly 2ch. #1 for me is the same as hidog - midrange/vocal clarity. Vocals should sound very clear and natural. I don't know what Loreena McKennit sounds like live, but I should feel like I do when I hear her voice coming out of the speakers. This clarity is always the first thing I listen for when I audition - almost always with female and male vocals that I am very familiar with. I listen to a wide variety of stuff; rock, jazz, techno, vocals,etc.. but if the female vocals sound good, a speaker will have my attention and make me interested enough to further listen to see what else it can offer.

 

[mulester7]

.....very good, guys, I'm not alone....I go for the voices to sound as natural as possible....at moderate listening levels also....people come over and hear my stuff and usually sit mezmorized-sp? by the talking voices of either the weather channel or the food channel that I have on a lot while online....yeah, talking voices....

.....I don't remember who it was, but I had to just smile and go on over the post a couple of weeks ago, concerning my supposedly endorsing a DVD movie over a lone 5 second bass-guitar lick....the greek ensemble that played interludes all through the movie made the price worth the DVD....add a delightfully light story, with EXCELLENT casting/acting, and you've got My Big Fat Greek Wedding....which most of you have....

.....Guys, I believe what we want from speakers changes along the way....it works toward the voices being live and everything else in the frequency signal being supportive, or at least that's where I'm at....I appreciate the three guys that responded in this thread....one has four posts now....another I think it was forty-something, and the first to respond, a hundred and a half, or so....just what I thought....you guys with thousands of posts don't have a clue what you're listening for at the speaker store, haha....just kidding....ya' tight-lipped turds....yeah, you're ugly TWO......

 

[MacManNM]

I agree, vocals are really important, but I value imaging too. I guess all around balance, not too powerfull in any one octave. If I can turn out the lights, close my eyes and see the performers on stage, and follow them when they move, thats what makes me smile.

j_garcia,

How do you like those Marantz mono amps? I was thinking about getting a few of them, they seem like a great deal.

 

[mulester7]

I guess all around balance, not too powerfull in any one octave

.....bingo, +/- db from top to bottom of the speaker....the entire presence is affected.....

 

[MacManNM]

I just got my XR-16 mids back from McIntosh friday (wife blew them up a couple of weeks ago). I hooked up that Bose 1801 amp with my C-28. Talk about a killer combo. I think I just fell in love all over again. Those speakers have the best tonal balance I have ever heard IMO, and that Bose amp is powerfull, and drives those 16's with intent! I love 2 ch audio!!!!!!

 

[mulester7]

I just got my XR-16 mids back from McIntosh friday (wife blew them up a couple of weeks ago). I hooked up that Bose 1801 amp with my C-28. Talk about a killer combo. I think I just fell in love all over again. Those speakers have the best tonal balance I have ever heard IMO, and that Bose amp is powerfull, and drives those 16's with intent! I love 2 ch audio!!!!!!

.....total agreement, Mac....technology will continue though, and I see a processor in the future shooting signals to at least 5 channels....with a gain on each speaker....dover......

 

[j_garcia]

j_garcia,

How do you like those Marantz mono amps? I was thinking about getting a few of them, they seem like a great deal.

I have been very happy with them so far, no complaints and definitely for the prices these days, they are solid performers. My speakers are 4 Ohm and my 8300 seemed to saturate at elevated levels with them. Adding the monos really brought out more of what the speakers were capable of - more depth and clarity. I chose the GRs because they have excellent midrange. I was very impressed with them the first time I heard them, so I bought some for myself.

 

[MacManNM]

Mule,
What speakers/amp are you using for your 2 ch?

 

[mulester7]

Mule,
What speakers/amp are you using for your 2 ch?

.....Mac, I've got two channels, but surround sound....I've got a pair of Speaker Art Super Clef TL's (transmission lines) for fronts, and pair of Speaker Art Super Clef's for the rears....I am pushing each pair with a Crown K2 with signal sent by a McIntosh C-26 pre....the speakers are made by a guy in California that used to live in Bakersfield, and now has moved to Morro Bay....his speakers have amazing realism and presence....here is a link to the bookshelf Super Clef's, which weigh 50 lbs. apiece, and have the more amazing mids of the two.....I'm not trying to promote his speakers....he's going to make me a pair of each more, and he may be done, I don't know......

http://www.speakerart.com/images.html

....the second picture down is the TL's.....

http://www.shows.soundstagelive.com/shows/ces2002/daily_jan_10.shtml

.....second from the bottom on this one.....

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/ces2002/tuesday/

 

[MacManNM]

.....Mac, I've got two channels, but surround sound....I've got a pair of Speaker Art Super Clef TL's (transmission lines) for fronts, and pair of Speaker Art Super Clef's for the rears....I am pushing each pair with a Crown K2 with signal sent by a McIntosh C-26 pre....the speakers are made by a guy in California that used to live in Bakersfield, and now has moved to Morro Bay....his speakers have amazing realism and presence....here is a link to the bookshelf Super Clef's, which weigh 50 lbs. apiece, and have the more amazing mids of the two.....I'm not trying to promote his speakers....he's going to make me a pair of each more, and he may be done, I don't know......

http://www.speakerart.com/images.html

....the second picture down is the TL's.....

http://www.shows.soundstagelive.com/shows/ces2002/daily_jan_10.shtml

.....second from the bottom on this one.....

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/ces2002/tuesday/

Those look really nice. Great bass extention. I've been waiting for someone to do a TL design right, looks like he got it done.

 

[j_garcia]

I've been to Morro Bay; used to have family there. Nice little town. Basically a power plant and a golf course with some scattered homes and nice beaches.

Each of my A/V-2s weigh 38lbs each:A/V-2

Those guys look like some very nice speakers.

 

[mulester7]

.....Mac and JGarcia, thanks for the responses....and JGarcia, I personally am glad you showed up here and started posting.....

.....guys, I may have some hearing loss, and I'll be the first to admit there were some experiences in the mechanical dept at the railroad before I transferred over that could have been the culprits.....locomotives have pop-off valves on their air reservoirs-sp?, that are SO L0UD, it sounds like it is IN your head when you are close, and they pop-off sometimes for 3-4 seconds.....

....the speakers I have are two-way with 8 inch woofers....now that combination with a button tweeter ain't gonna' have the low end of say a 3-way with 12-15 inch woofer....but what I get from mine mids-up is worth not going for 3-way, I assure you....

.....to add a little oomph to the lower end of the fronts/mains, I am going to try twoooooooo TL's wired in parallel, and let me add, Bob says my want is based on the TL's not being on the floor, but having experienced them imaging at about 57 inches from the floor into my surround space, they will stay, gives a clean brilliance at sitting ear level AND above your ears....makes the room a better filled-up chamber in which to occupy the lower, imo.....

.....I say find the presence-mids-up you want, and then tweek something if need be....listen to perspective speaker purchases with the bass tone controls as low as possible at least part of the time, with the treble tone controls set at what sounded good before you took away the lows...."see how well the mids-up, stand on their own with the lows gone"....but, prepare to hear distortion up high....cranked just decent-crank.....

.....if you have to jack the high tone controls three or four clicks with the bass acceptable, go to the next speaker consideration....or don't, it's your money....

.....I may go to a 15 inch Electro-Voice woofer rated from 60-6000, in a seperate shelf-ported box, cut at about 4500-ceiling with a quality crossover using only the low end of the crossover....I don't know, I suspect the two TL's, side-by-side, up on the sub box, getting hit with 3 ohm watts, and we didn't lose half the damping factor because the amp is not strapped, BREATH, will do the trick....we'll see....used to, you could order the 15 inch woofer from EV for $206 as a replacement speaker with no nomenclature on the woofer, opposed to about $400 with the nomenclature stuck on the back of the magnet....is a small circle of black paper with white lettering worth $194?....don't think so.....

.....Audioholics.com....I appreciate that hobo in the fourth boxcar back telling me about this site, haha.....

 

[mulester7]

.....early readers....I ammended that last one a bunch.....