Lightning protection from power company?

W

Wildings

Audioholic
I have read (and instigated) some forum discussion re in home power conditioners and surge protection, but I am curious about another option.
Florida Power and Light offers to install some sort of electronic and appliance lightning protection for $16 a month. This includes $5000 damage insurance. I do not know the specifics of how the protection works.
Could something of this nature possibly be effective? Should I subscribe? Thank you for opinions and advice.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I've used power company installed devices like that in my homes, but I never had to pay a monthly fee, only an upfront charge. These whole-home devices are okay for appliances and HVAC systems, but for electronics you want a device with a much faster clamp down time. Belkin and Tripp Lite are two brands I use, but when I know a storm is coming nothing beats unplugging the equipment.
 
-Jim-

-Jim-

Audioholic General
The easiest way to protect your home from these, and other voltage spike / surges is to have a Whole House Surge Protection device installed in your Main Panel.

Most of us think surge protection is for a lightning strike on the utilities apparatus that feeds your house; but most surge events are self generated inside the home by larger current devices cycling on.

Some companies (Square D, Siemens, GE, etc.) have units that plug directly into your main panel (like a circuit breaker) and only cost $50 => $60 (USD). If you are a bit handy, and can turn of the main breaker and follow simple instructions, these only take about 10 minutes to install if you have 2 adjacent empty slots on your panel. If you aren't confident on doing it yourself, please hire an Electrician.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Just picking a whole house unit randomly, even from big name brands, can be a waste of money. Installing whole house surge suppressors is a big money-making industry, and so if you do a search you'll see a lot of companies trying to sell you them. Most are useless for delicate electronics. BTW, in many US locales (I'm not sure where you live) it's illegal to do your own electrical system work without being licensed, and then there's the minor little issue that it can void your home owners insurance policy if you do. Nonetheless, as I mentioned, I use a whole house unit provided by the power company because it was cheap ($125) and they warrant it. I figure the power company's distribution transformer issues are the most likely scenarios it's protecting against, and using their recommended device is the conservative choice when you don't have better data.

While this guy may be biased, so take this article with a grain of salt, it appears to be well-written and factual:

http://www.us-tech.com/RelId/1082596/ISvars/default/Why_Whole_Building_Surge_Protectors_Don't_Work.htm

Surge suppression devices have a few important specifications:

- Clamp down voltage
- Response time (typically in nanoseconds, though I'm a skeptic about this spec)
- Suppression rating (in joules)
- Current rating (in amps)

Basically, you want a very low clamp down voltage for electronics (e.g. 140v), and that's not going to happen with a whole house device. I like this Tripp Lite unit because it has a low clamp down voltage, and Tripp Lite has a comprehensive spec sheet available for it. Most cheap surge protectors don't.

https://www.tripplite.com/isobar-6-outlet-surge-protector-6-ft-cord-3300-joules-diagnostic-leds~ISOBAR6ULTRA

But in the end surge protectors are a shot in the dark, pun intended. You can't ever be sure a given unit will be sufficient, which is why I try to unplug expensive electronics during electrical storms, and I use point of connection surge protectors for the delicate stuff, like cheaply made LCD TVs.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I have read (and instigated) some forum discussion re in home power conditioners and surge protection, but I am curious about another option.
Florida Power and Light offers to install some sort of electronic and appliance lightning protection for $16 a month. This includes $5000 damage insurance. I do not know the specifics of how the protection works.
Could something of this nature possibly be effective? Should I subscribe? Thank you for opinions and advice.
$5000 in damage insurance doesn't help much when the place burns to the ground. Even power surge protector companies offer more than that but I have heard it's hard to collect.

No surge protection is effective if the building's electrical wiring and grounding have resistance and anyone who states that their product(s) provide total protection against lightning is either very optimistic or a liar. Lightning can induce current in wiring and if that happens, there's nothing left but calling the fire department and watching.

Anyone who's considering lightning rods needs to know how they're required to be installed and where the wires can and can not be run. I worked on a house doing the low voltage electrical work for AV, network, phone, central vac and as we walked through the place, I noticed a braided cable coming through a stud bay on its way to the basement. The problem- all of the Romex from the 2nd Floor rant through the same stud bay and was bundled with the braided cable, using wire ties. First direct strike to the lightning rods and the whole house could have literally exploded because the whole electrical system would have been affected. Cabling from lightning rods is required by code to be no closer than 16" from any parallel electrical wiring and when the builder was told about this, which he hadn't seen or noticed, he made the electrician re-route all of his Romex, since the lightning suppression had been installed first.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Most of us think surge protection is for a lightning strike on the utilities apparatus that feeds your house; but most surge events are self generated inside the home by larger current devices cycling on.
Reality is, it takes a lot to protect effectively against the more damaging transients/surges that occurs during lightning storms and utilities apparatus switching. It is relatively easy and affordable to protect against those self generated ones you cited, yet those kind of transients will unlikely result in highly or immediately damaging transients. Such transients, if high enough and frequent enough to be damaging, would be indicative of some components need replacing, such as a switching contactor or large capacitors (less likely) of a HVAC system.

Regardless, I agree it is a good idea to install one of those surge protection device made by reputable companies such as Square D, Schneider, Siemens) at the main panel. One minor down side of such devices I can think of is that they may help hiding a worn/defective components that could be generating transients that may not result in immediate damage(though there may be visible signs), but the repetitive nature of such lower level transients could result in long term gradual negative impacts on sensitive electronic/electrical components.

Like Irv, I would still use the point of connection type, as well as unplugging if I know something may be coming.
 
Speedskater

Speedskater

Audioholic General
a] there seem to be a lot of scare tactics in some of the above references.
b] a 'lightning rod' system is one thing and a 'surge protection' system is another. a 'lightning rod' system needs an execlent connection to Planet Earth and a 'surge protection' system only requires a reasonable connection (say under 100 Ohms). (a 25 Ohm connection is a challenge in most locations)
c] the whole home systems made by reputable companies such as Square D, Schneider, Siemens are all you need.
d] $16 dollars a month seems like a lot, an electrician will probably install one for a one time $200.
 
-Jim-

-Jim-

Audioholic General
I agree with Speedskater, there's a lot of half truths in some of these posts. I am a Licenced Electrician, and I won't debate National Electric Code from any jurisdiction here.

All I'll say is I wouldn't put anything in my house that didn't work as intended, nor would I post nonsense here. A buddy of mine who I've known for 25 years is an Electrical Engineer at GE in the division that manufactured the unit I put in my house (He got it for me) => and another I put in our Family Cabin. Two of my 4 Brothers are Electricians, and another has his Phd in Electrical Engineering. (Our Dad was an Electrical Engineer as well.) We all agree this technology works, and we've not had any failures in the 10+ years it's been installed in my house.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I agree with Speedskater, there's a lot of half truths in some of these posts. I am a Licenced Electrician, and I won't debate National Electric Code from any jurisdiction here.

All I'll say is I wouldn't put anything in my house that didn't work as intended, nor would I post nonsense here. A buddy of mine who I've known for 25 years is an Electrical Engineer at GE in the division that manufactured the unit I put in my house (He got it for me) => and another I put in our Family Cabin. Two of my 4 Brothers are Electricians, and another has his Phd in Electrical Engineering. (Our Dad was an Electrical Engineer as well.) We all agree this technology works, and we've not had any failures in the 10+ years it's been installed in my house.
Jim, your post reminds me of some of Marissa Tomei's testimony in the court room scene of My Cousin Vinny.

I'm guessing what you're recommending here is a GE SurgePro? If so, can you ask your buddy at GE what the VPR is for that unit? I don't see it on the spec sheet.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I agree with Speedskater, there's a lot of half truths in some of these posts. I am a Licenced Electrician, and I won't debate National Electric Code from any jurisdiction here.
What are those half truths you referred to? Please PM me if that's what you prefer, thank you. I have my own takes on this, just want to compare notes.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Jim, your post reminds me of some of Marissa Tomei's testimony in the court room scene of My Cousin Vinny.

I'm guessing what you're recommending here is a GE SurgePro? If so, can you ask your buddy at GE what the VPR is for that unit? I don't see it on the spec sheet.
But inquiring minds want to know- does he make that purple dress look as good as she did?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Whether lightning will damage anything is often a crap shoot- we had a thunderstorm roll through my area last night and it came in bright and noisy. Close, too- very little delay between the flash and the boom. I use a TrippLite surge protector that shuts down below 90VAC and above 140VAC- never activated. It has shut down on occasion, but not last night. I'll see what was damaged when I leave the house in a little while.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Whether lightning will damage anything is often a crap shoot- we had a thunderstorm roll through my area last night and it came in bright and noisy. Close, too- very little delay between the flash and the boom. I use a TrippLite surge protector that shuts down below 90VAC and above 140VAC- never activated. It has shut down on occasion, but not last night. I'll see what was damaged when I leave the house in a little while.
The thing is, you could have survived the most severe lightning/thundering event without getting hit even once, or have a very minor event (next time),yet it just might hit the line that affects your area. I think Jim is more concerned about the transients generated from equipment inside his own house. Those are not as damaging in general, but happens much more often so I agree the devices he suggested are good to have.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
The thing is, you could have survived the most severe lightning/thundering event without getting hit even once, or have a very minor event (next time),yet it just might hit the line that affects your area. I think Jim is more concerned about the transients generated from equipment inside his own house. Those are not as damaging in general, but happens much more often so I agree the devices he suggested are good to have.
The in-house surges are supposed to be suppressed by the local devices, not the whole house suppressor, which may be forgotten by many.
 
W

Wildings

Audioholic
Thank you all for helpful insight. I have local protectors, metal cased, prior to components....they came with high dollar protection guarantees....but as was mentioned, collecting $ for damages probably difficult. I unplug when convenient. Will get more info from Florida Power & Light about their $15 monthly protection device. I'm in a rental property...condo built late 80's.
 
mattlach

mattlach

Junior Audioholic
I question the need.

The only surge protector in my entire house is my old APC UPS in my basement my server is plugged into.

In my 38 years I have never lost anything to a power surge.

(knock on wood veneer)
 
W

Wildings

Audioholic
I question the need.

The only surge protector in my entire house is my old APC UPS in my basement my server is plugged into.

In my 38 years I have never lost anything to a power surge.

(knock on wood veneer)
Do you live in an area with frequent thunderstorms?
Here on the Gulf Coast of Florida they are almost an every afternoon occurance during the summer months.
 
mattlach

mattlach

Junior Audioholic
Do you live in an area with frequent thunderstorms?
Here on the Gulf Coast of Florida they are almost an every afternoon occurance during the summer months.
Good point. I hadn't thought of regional weather differences. I live in the northeast. We rarely have thunderstorms. (We did have a pretty large one come through yesterday though)
 
A

andyblackcat

Audioholic General
I've used power company installed devices like that in my homes, but I never had to pay a monthly fee, only an upfront charge. These whole-home devices are okay for appliances and HVAC systems, but for electronics you want a device with a much faster clamp down time. Belkin and Tripp Lite are two brands I use, but when I know a storm is coming nothing beats unplugging the equipment.
Agree just unplug everything and get some sleep and listen to the thunderstorm until it passes by not worth it getting everything damaged in lighting-storm.

Often around south UK get a lot of isolated thunderstorms often around June when the weather peaks with few weeks of heatwave it brings in thunderstorms for a few days.
 
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