LFE output problem with Denon 3808 CI

[The Chukker]

I noticed today while I was playing around in 2 channel pcm with my 3808 that the LFE channel is not ouput even when the display on the front panel says it is. It doesn't seem to matter which surround mode is used; I initially became aware of the problem in Pure Direct mode, but the LFE channel is not sent in PL II, etc., either. The LFE channel works just fine when the unit detects a DD, DTS, or True HD signal, etc. I have the subwoofer setting at "Yes", the subwoofer mode at "LFE" (it also doesn't recieve a signal when "LFE+Main" is chosen), all speakers set to "Large", and the x-over setting at 80hz.
This only happens with 2 channel pcm.
The unit is less than 2 weeks old and I am hoping it is not inherent to the hardware . Any help or insight, or even better those of you with a 3808 could see if you have a similar issue, would be much appreciated!
Thank you for your time!

 

[MDS]

There is no LFE channel for 2 channel PCM. If you mean the sub does not work with PCM I'd say it's because you have all speakers set to Large - which by definition means send them the entire frequency range.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I noticed today while I was playing around in 2 channel pcm with my 3808 that the LFE channel is not ouput even when the display on the front panel says it is. It doesn't seem to matter which surround mode is used; I initially became aware of the problem in Pure Direct mode, but the LFE channel is not sent in PL II, etc., either. The LFE channel works just fine when the unit detects a DD, DTS, or True HD signal, etc. I have the subwoofer setting at "Yes", the subwoofer mode at "LFE" (it also doesn't recieve a signal when "LFE+Main" is chosen), all speakers set to "Large", and the x-over setting at 80hz.
This only happens with 2 channel pcm.
The unit is less than 2 weeks old and I am hoping it is not inherent to the hardware . Any help or insight, or even better those of you with a 3808 could see if you have a similar issue, would be much appreciated!
Thank you for your time!

Some receivers has speaker setting in different modes like stereo. If your manual shows setup graphs, perhaps someplace it has speaker selection options in stereo mode and you need to make sure 'sub' is yes.

 

[The Chukker]

There is no LFE channel for 2 channel PCM. If you mean the sub does not work with PCM I'd say it's because you have all speakers set to Large - which by definition means send them the entire frequency range.

I changed my speaker settings to "Small" and I began to receive LFE information in PL II and NEO:6 surround mode, however in Pure Direct I am still not receiving LFE information. The receiver is an HDMI equipped version of the 3805 (I own both). The 3805 did send information to the LFE channel in 2 channel Pure Direct and PL II/Neo: 6 even with speaker settings set to "Large", its output determined at the user designated crossover frequency.

 

[The Chukker]

Some receivers has speaker setting in different modes like stereo. If your manual shows setup graphs, perhaps someplace it has speaker selection options in stereo mode and you need to make sure 'sub' is yes.

Why then does the front display of the unit show that an LFE signal is in fact being output? The set up graph in the manual of the 3808 shows that subwoofer output in 2 channel Pure Direct is dependent upon speaker configuration (this could mean speaker size or perhaps more likely whether or not the user has toggled "yes" to having a subwoofer); however as noted in the above post even when setting the speaker size to small I am not getting LFE output in Pure Direct with subwoofer set to "yes".

 

[MDS]

'Direct' mode usually means no processing whatsoever so you normally wouldn't get output to the subwoofer using direct. I know some Denons say that the sub will be used in Direct which would be different than every other receiver where Direct actually means direct.

 

[The Chukker]

'Direct' mode usually means no processing whatsoever so you normally wouldn't get output to the subwoofer using direct. I know some Denons say that the sub will be used in Direct which would be different than every other receiver where Direct actually means direct.

First of all, thank you MDS and mtrycrafts for taking the time to help solve this dilemma. This is clearly a case of RTFM . I went back into the audio setup and sure enough the 3808 has a separate sub menu for 2ch/Direct stereo mode separate from the auto surround presets. When I toggled the subwoofer mode to "LFE+Main" in this sub menu the unit now performed the way I was used to with the 3805 (only with more steps ).
Aaaahhhh, progress.
It still puzzles me that the front display still showed an LFE signal even though there wasn't any under the prior configuration. It would have been easier to detect where the problem was if the LFE light wasn't lit up.
Thanks again to the both of you for your cognitive prowess!

 

[mtrycrafts]

... This is clearly a case of RTFM . !

Don't feel bad; been there, done that
These things are complex and the programming is not user friendly finding out, or following what they really mean in the block diagram and their descriptions. For instance, a certain mode for dialogue normalization to be activated, or some such thing, doesn't tell you that a DD signal must be present to activate that setup menu to make changes.
It is frustrating for those who has some idea about this; imagine those who have none.
But, in the end, it is great that you did find the right menu to do this. May want to make notes in the manual for a next time.

 

[andytk5]

Hey guys! I hear ya about figuring out this AVR. It is in depth and time consuming. I almost gave up. Just takes some digging around in the menus and the forums...

So this brings me to my question. What is this Dialogue normalization you were talking about? Is this something to combat the drastic volume changes from quiet dialogue scenes to the loud explosions? I find myself turning up the volume to hear dialogue then turning it down once a loud scene comes along. Any ideas for this?
Thanks

 

[MDS]

So this brings me to my question. What is this Dialogue normalization you were talking about? Is this something to combat the drastic volume changes from quiet dialogue scenes to the loud explosions? I find myself turning up the volume to hear dialogue then turning it down once a loud scene comes along. Any ideas for this?
Thanks

Dynamic Compression, sometimes called 'late night' mode, reduces the peaks which can often make dialog more intelligible. It only works on DD tracks.

Dialog Normalization is something entirely different and happens automatically with receivers that support it. The DialNorm value in the bitstream tells the decoder how much the actual level varies from the standard level and the receiver will automatically boost or cut the level to match the standard or 'normal' level.