LFE level on Yamaha RX-Z9

[JOHN FICKEL]

Should the LFE level in any receiver/ processor be set to max? If not how would one accurately set? Thank you.

 

[tcarcio]

No it shouldn't. You need to get an SPL meter and set it so the bass volume is 75-85 db on the meter. Some will say just 75db but I like the bass a little hot so you can see what sounds best to you. I think you can also download an app for a SPL meter on your cell phone but I don't believe they are accurate. Something like this. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CGcQtwIwCGoVChMIu-PD4_uDyQIVBtkmCh3nVAqR&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFuCzcu55nw&usg=AFQjCNHvSzBpIuehgEVyGS4zLliCwjQJ2g&sig2=8PVUsKosAmvmgPkizFV9vA

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

OK. I'm still a little confused. Please Bear with me. I have already adjusted the volume of the subs using a Radio-Shack digital Spl meter. The volume of the subs it set to half, 12 o'clock. And then adjusted using the receiver . It just seems the movie aspect of my using is way too bass heavy. So I need to basically disconnect one sub and adjust using the LFE level feature ?

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Seems there are two volume controls for the same thing

 

[markw]

Seems there are two volume controls for the same thing

There are. One on the receiver and one on each of the subs. If you feel the bass is too strong, then simply turn it down from one or the other. Personally, I'd do it from the receiver since that one adjustment affects both subs.

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Yes both subs have a volume, I understand that. And I have independent volume control as well on the receiver, for both subs. I control from there. My question is pertaining to the (LFE) setting. The manual is way too vague. The adjustment range is -20 to 0. Why is there a third way to basically control the same thing I realize the LFE is the .1 in 5.1 or 7.1. But those frequencies would be present anyways no? My question was how to accurately set the( LFE) thank you

 

[markw]

I believe Tcario gave you the answer to that question. You can set it that way using whichever level control, or any combination of level controls you wish.

If you do that, then it will be set "accurately".

Now, once you set it, if you find it is too strong for you, then simply turn it down. "Accurate" is not always what one prefers. That's why restaurants put salt and pepper shakers on the tables.

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Why in the world would there be 3 level controls for the same thing? So u are saying LFE is the exact same as turning your volume control on your sub up or down ? Or receiver ?

 

[markw]

Subs are made to work with receivers without bass management as well as those with. And, the output of a LFE channel may be different between various receivers.

In your perfect world, everything would be made for your exact situation and all you would need to do is simply plug everything in and everything would be perfect and we would have unicorns, rainbows and butterflies all around us.

Welcome to the real world where these things are made to be used by many people in many different situations.

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

I understand what you're saying However Yamaha has said that the LFE range adjustment is not a volume control, but a way to boost the LFE Channel . Those frequencies otherwise would still be there, but this is a way to put more emphasis on those frequencies . Does this make sense ?

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

The LFE is merely part of the receiver’s overall controls for adjusting the levels between the various speakers and the subs. A lot of it has to do with the efficiency of the speakers one might have.

For instance, if someone is using speakers for their system from different brands and/or models, some will probably play louder at a given volume setting on the receiver than others. You’ve probably noticed that the Z9 has a function in the menu for adjusting the levels of the different speakers. That’s what it is there for, to make sure all the speakers, especially if they are mismatched, are all able to play the same volume.

The LFE works along the same lines, simply allowing an outboard powered sub to be level-matched properly with the other speakers. Similar to the speakers, the inputs of some subs can be more “sensitive” than others (probably not the most accurate description from a technical standpoint, but good enough to make the point here). In other words, some subs may require a higher LFE signal than others to achieve the same volume level.

More importantly, the LFE output can be very helpful in some real-world situations. For instance, if you have extremely efficient speakers (some Klipsch models for instance), you can get ear-bleeding levels in the room with a relatively low volume setting on the receiver. In that situation you would have a problem getting a hot enough signal to the subwoofer. IOW, even with the sub’s own gain control turned all the way up, the LFE signal from the receiver might not be high enough to drive the sub to its maximum output, or maybe not even enough to get the sub loud enough to blend with the main speakers. So, the LFE output in the receiver can be increased to compensate for this situation, enabling a proper blend between the mains and sub.

Conversely, if you have extremely inefficient speakers you’d require a relatively high volume setting on the receiver most of the time. In this case you could be sending too hot a signal to the subwoofer, possibly overloading its input (causing distortion), or maybe rendering the sub’s gain knob to “hair trigger” operation, going from nothing to full-blast with only 1/4" of the knob’s travel.

Make sense?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

The LFE is merely part of the receiver’s overall controls for adjusting the levels between the various speakers and the subs. A lot of it has to do with the efficiency of the speakers one might have.

For instance, if someone is using speakers for their system from different brands and/or models, some will probably play louder at a given volume setting on the receiver than others. You’ve probably noticed that the Z9 has a function in the menu for adjusting the levels of the different speakers. That’s what it is there for, to make sure all the speakers, especially if they are mismatched, are all able to play the same volume.

The LFE works along the same lines, simply allowing an outboard powered sub to be level-matched properly with the other speakers. Similar to the speakers, the inputs of some subs can be more “sensitive” than others (probably not the most accurate description from a technical standpoint, but good enough to make the point here). In other words, some subs may require a higher LFE signal than others to achieve the same volume level.

More importantly, the LFE output can be very helpful in some real-world situations. For instance, if you have extremely efficient speakers (some Klipsch models for instance), you can get ear-bleeding levels in the room with a relatively low volume setting on the receiver. In that situation you would have a problem getting a hot enough signal to the subwoofer. IOW, even with the sub’s own gain control turned all the way up, the LFE signal from the receiver might not be high enough to drive the sub to its maximum output, or maybe not even enough to get the sub loud enough to blend with the main speakers. So, the LFE output in the receiver can be increased to compensate for this situation, enabling a proper blend between the mains and sub.

Conversely, if you have extremely inefficient speakers you’d require a relatively high volume setting on the receiver most of the time. In this case you could be sending too hot a signal to the subwoofer, possibly overloading its input (causing distortion), or maybe rendering the sub’s gain knob to “hair trigger” operation, going from nothing to full-blast with only 1/4" of the knob’s travel.

Make sense?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Yes thank you. I was just confused because I have the volume on the subs set to half and then I adjusted on the Z9 the volume for both subs. So the Lfe level yet another level control for the same thing. However I understand now. Last night I turned my LFE level down to -5 and it made a huge difference . Sounds much better . When I went to -10 with the LFE level the subs didn't kick on lol but that was turned down too much anyways . -5 seems to be better than 0 for me. You are right when I adjusted my subwoofers using an SPL meter I had to turn them down way too much and still was above my 80db The lfe level was the reason .with my LFE level set to 0 and the volume of my subs at -7 it was still to loud so again the LFE was too hot. Thank you both

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

And I do understand input sensitivity on speakers and preamp / amplifiers. But never gave input sensitivity a thought on subwoofers. Thank you for taking the time

 

[herbu]

My question is pertaining to the (LFE) setting... Why is there a third way to basically control the same thing

It is not "the same thing". It is not a frequency... it is a channel. When you change the volume of your subs, you increase/decrease everything thru those subs. When you change the volume of your LFE, you only affect what's in the LFE Channel, not everything thru the subs.

Your bass was boomy? In music or TV/Movies? If it was boomy in music, the overall volume of your subs might have been too high. There is no LFE channel in music, so changing an LFE level will have no effect.

Your AVR has an overall volume control. And it also lets you adjust each channel up or down a limited amount. That's why your subs have their own volume/gain control on them. You want to adjust the sub gain such that your sub is balanced, at zero, with your other speakers. This means you have the full limited range of adjustment available in your AVR. For example, if the gain on your sub is turned up and your sub measures 12dB hotter than your other speakers, but the volume control in your AVR is limited to +/- 6dB, you can never "balance" your sub. When you run YPAO or balance manually w/ a meter, use the gain control on the sub. Then you can fine tune to your liking in the AVR.

Your volume on the subs is set to "half"? Mine is set ~10:00, (12:00 is "half"). Don't feel bad about lowering the gain control to balance.

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Yes I completely understand thank you very much. It all makes sense now, every time I've tried to calibrate the subwoofers iv had to turn them way down, even as far as -8 and still could not get them to balance. The LFE level was the reason behind it. Somebody not on this website, mentioned when you turn the LFE level down it actually gets rid of some of the bass, meaning you may not hear all of the frequencies? I know now that is not true. It is simply a gain control. Again thank you all for taking the time out of your day to help me understand. Thank you

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

And one more thing. Music was not the problem at all. It was a problem watching movies. It just seemed to be way over bearing on the bass frequencies . For example when my fiancé when she watches the voice, the bass from tv shows / movies was just to overbearing. So I would have to turn the subs way down, and still seemed overbearing. Adjusting LFE has made all the difference

 

[PENG]

Should the LFE level in any receiver/ processor be set to max? If not how would one accurately set? Thank you.

I am sure about Yamaha but my guess is that it is likely the same as Denon's. According to a Denon AVR's manual:

Adjust the low-frequency effects level (LFE).
For proper playback of the different program sources, we recommend
setting to the values below.
• Dolby Digital sources: “0 dB”
• DTS movie sources: “0 dB”
• DTS music sources: “-10 dB”

So except for DTS music sources, yes it should be left at maximum, that is "0 dB". Obviously you can change it to anything you want and still get the level balanced with the other channels by either manual adjustment or run YPAO that will take care of it for you quickly. Just remember when you play DTS music source you lower it by 10 dB. That is just for argument sake, you should just leave it at default and change it to -10 if and when you play DTS music sources.

If you are curious enough, here's a long version of the explanation, sort of..

http://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_2/feature-article-misunderstood-lfe-channel-april-2000.html

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

That's pretty involved. Thank you. However turning my LFE down a bit seemed to help. I have two R-115sw Klipsch subs. One in the front one in the back. I've have never had a problem with music, just movies. And what I mean by that Is, while we watch movies I think the subs were extremely hard to get the right SPL. With that being said, I have done The obvious and turned the subs down by A: volume on the sub and B: the AVR. I would have to really turn down everything way to much in my opinion . So i started to cut the subs at 60hz instead of 80 but seem to keep going back to 80hz. So I decided just try and cut the LFE level a bit. It mad a big difference. Subs sound much CLEANER than before

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

The subs didn't seem like the volume was the issue, the issue seemed to be that the frequencies were being over exaggerated. Atleast to my ear. Now I'm able to turn my subs up close to where they were and it sounds much better than before. With my subs at 12 and the AVR turned down to -8 it was still too much. So now with my LFE at -5 I can keep my subs at plus two in the AVR. It's still very hard to explain what the subs sounded like, it just sounds like it they were getting way too much information

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Yes.

The LFE is merely part of the receiver’s overall controls for adjusting the levels between the various speakers and the subs. A lot of it has to do with the efficiency of the speakers one might have.

For instance, if someone is using speakers for their system from different brands and/or models, some will probably play louder at a given volume setting on the receiver than others. You’ve probably noticed that the Z9 has a function in the menu for adjusting the levels of the different speakers. That’s what it is there for, to make sure all the speakers, especially if they are mismatched, are all able to play the same volume.

The LFE works along the same lines, simply allowing an outboard powered sub to be level-matched properly with the other speakers. Similar to the speakers, the inputs of some subs can be more “sensitive” than others (probably not the most accurate description from a technical standpoint, but good enough to make the point here). In other words, some subs may require a higher LFE signal than others to achieve the same volume level.

More importantly, the LFE output can be very helpful in some real-world situations. For instance, if you have extremely efficient speakers (some Klipsch models for instance), you can get ear-bleeding levels in the room with a relatively low volume setting on the receiver. In that situation you would have a problem getting a hot enough signal to the subwoofer. IOW, even with the sub’s own gain control turned all the way up, the LFE signal from the receiver might not be high enough to drive the sub to its maximum output, or maybe not even enough to get the sub loud enough to blend with the main speakers. So, the LFE output in the receiver can be increased to compensate for this situation, enabling a proper blend between the mains and sub.

Conversely, if you have extremely inefficient speakers you’d require a relatively high volume setting on the receiver most of the time. In this case you could be sending too hot a signal to the subwoofer, possibly overloading its input (causing distortion), or maybe rendering the sub’s gain knob to “hair trigger” operation, going from nothing to full-blast with only 1/4" of the knob’s travel.

Make sense?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

I wanted to say thank you too you again. I read over a few times your post and yes it completely makes sense . Thank you for taking the time.