Lets TALK, TALK, TALK, DVD-A SACD

petermwilson · Jul 13, 2003

C'mon members,
You must have some discs you bought that you really love or hate.
Some where you fell the engineering in mltich was poor or over the top.  Like Chicago II.

Let's start some topics and hear what you think.

Peter m.

Rob Babcock · Jul 16, 2003

Well, when the subject is DVD-A/SACD, it seems like I'm the only one talking!

I have posted some impressions of some of the discs I own.  I recently added the new Hillary Hahn SACD (playing Beethoven and Berstein with the Baltimore Symphony), although I haven't got thru the whole disc yet.

A couple of the early favorites of mine are Foreigner 4, REM's "Automatic For The People" and "Two Against Nature" by Steely Dan.

IMO, SACD & DVD-A both offer a huge step up from LP or CD playback.  I honestly can't say whether the MC aspect or the better resolution is most responsible; both are amazing.  The harmonic "rightness" of instruments, the palpability and "presence" of vocals, etc is almost spooky.  On Pink Floyds "Dark Side of the Moon", the surround is used to striking effect- this is how I always thought the album should sound, back in the pre-mainstream-surround-sound days.  The bass performance of my system playing this disc is much better than I thought my gear was capable of.

In short I'm hooked.  Just wish someone else would chime in with some impressions.

petermwilson · Jul 17, 2003

Hi Rob Babcock,

Yeah, I'm addicted also. My Hilary Hahn mltch sacd is "Mendelssohn and Shostakovitch with the Oslo Philharmonic"

If you find that you enjoy the one you have, one of the UK Audio Mags has "the recording of the month" in it's RedBook version being "Rachel Podger La Stravaganza, Antonio Vivaldi" 12 violin concertos.

The interesting thing that I found about their recommondation is that they completely ignored the fact that "CHANNEL CLASSICS" has produced a 2 disc mltich hybrid sacd, which I've owned for a couple of months now.

Sorry I can't give you an enlightened review as I'm just getting into classical and aside from whether I like it or not (which I do) I know nothing about classical music.

Rob, for some points of refference I'll mention some equipment things that may be telling for future discussions.

I use an upgraded Denon 5800, which has 2 sets of analog in's so at some point a combi player may be of interest but right now, not a priority.
DVD-a Player, 7disc JVC FA92SL
SACD Player, 5disc Sony DVP-NC650V
Both of these would be cnosidered entry level players and I bought them on clearance sales.
HDCD, Player Windows Media Player 9 connected via analog 2ch out from snd card to the Denon
Speakers Totem Acoustics Model 1  front rear and center all direct firing
Axiom QS4 dipoles surround B
Monitor Audio Bronze 4si effects surrounds for the ex or es

Dvd video SDI Modified Panny rp82 used with computer PCI HOLO3D vid scaler (scales any 480i input to whatever your display TOSH 65h80 can handel)

So that's it, except that I work from home which allows me to listen to music constantly.

nice to meet you,
Peter m.
Ps: I am located in Toronto Ontario Canada

rlw · Jul 21, 2003

I'm fairly new to the hi-res scene, but I've made a few purchases recently and would like to share my impressions...

First, my system:

Paradigm Studio 80s v2 in rosenut veneer - front L/R
Paradigm CC-350 - center
Infinity Silvers - surrounds L/R
H/K Signature 2.0 preamp/processor/tuner
H/K Signature 2.1 5 ch. amp
Toshiba SD4700 DVD-Video/DVD-Audio/CD/HDCD player
AlphaCore Goertz MI2 bi-wires for the fronts, Monster Cable 12 AWG for everything else.

Recent music purchases:

1) ELP - "Brain Salad Surgery"  DVD-Audio
 Very good sound, pretty nice use of the multi-ch.  
 capabilities although there is a mis-match in loudness
 levels between the fronts and rears.  The spinning
 "computer" sound at the end of Karn Evil 9 is quite
 reminiscent of the sound I heard at the live show in '73

2) Doobie Bros. - "The Captain and Me"  DVD-Audio
  This sounds terrific - every instrument and voice is
  clear as a bell, soundstage is very wide and somewhat
  deep, multi-ch. mix is very pleasant with the rears mostly  
  being used for ambience.

3) Grateful Dead - "American Beauty"  DVD-Audio
  Whoa!  This one blew me away - the soundstage is
  very wide, several feet beyond the boundaries of the
  front speakers (!!) and the voices and instruments are
  crystal clear.  Good use of the rears is shown by being
  predominantly for ambience with the occasional backing
  vocal appearing behind/beside you.  If you're a
  DeadHead, this one should bring a big grin to your face.

4) Yes - "Symphonic Live"  DVD-Video, DTS 5.1
  A very good concert video - finally, a video editor
  who is not trying to emulate that goddamn annoying
  MTV-style of incessant quick cuts from camera to
  camera.  The sound quality is very good, I have
  never heard such deep bass as what I'm getting near
  the end of "Starship Trooper".  I *did* find the imaging
  to be somewhat imprecise on the symphonic side, but it's
  asking a lot of my speakers to offer that kind of precision
  considering they are only 10 ft. apart from each other.

 Rear speakers were used mostly for ambience, definitely
 *my* preference, and, I think, completely necessary to
 accurately portray a live event.

 Jon Anderson's vocals were stunning, he hasn't lost a
 note, near as I can tell.  All in all, a very good live
 concert brought right into your living room for a mere
 $15 - a boatload cheaper than the last tickets I paid for...
 
I have several more, maybe I'll post more impressions after I've had a chance to audition more thoroughly...

-RW-

petermwilson · Jul 21, 2003

Hi,
It's interesting that the Tosh players have HDCD as part of many of their players.

When I purchased my HT in OCT 2000 my TV was the tosh 65h80 which was paired with the sd5109 dvd/hdcd,(one of the first progscan players.

I've now moved the tosh dvd into the living room with my first reciever which is the Onkyo 575.
HDCD duties now have my pc snd card 2ch analog out connected to my Denon reciever.

WMP9 decodes HDCD now (it's patially a microsoft product) and i just send it to the Denon and use whatever DSP sounds good for that particular disc DPLII usually does a great job of 5.1 sim.

I have ELP on both LP and dvd-a.  I was 25 when it first came out and hated it then. 30 years later, it's not my favorite disc, but there are songs I like.

Fragile is the Yes disc I own and Roundabout has always been a very very loud travelling car song for me.

I also own the GratefulDead's dvd-a's and since I saw a free Open Air Concert at "Place Ville Marie" in Montreal with Jefferson Airplane while ringside , and sitting on my motorcycle during the time that I was working at the 67 WORLDS FAIR, i've been emotionally tied to them even though there not my favorites by a long shot.

I might pickup the DOOBIE's at some point cause their right in my timeslot.

It seems like you've got some good equipment that will let you experience the formats well, so if you read some reviews and choose your music based on your likes and not what the rest of the world says you should like, it should be a great experience.

Peter m.

Rob Babcock · Jul 21, 2003

One thing I should point out is that the upgraded 5800 digitizes the 8 channel analog inputs, so the DSD-derived SACD will be converted to PCM.  I don't think this feature is defeatable, but I could be wrong.  It's hard to say how much sound quality loss this creates- I suspect that while SACD fans will be up in arms, the degradation will likely be minimal.  Anyway, most purists balk at recievers in general.  I use a Denon as a prepro and it works well for music and HT.  I also have used both Bronze and Silver Monitor Audio speakers and really like both.

A couple discs on my list to buy when I can:  "The Nightfly"- Donald Fagan.  Always liked the music and it was well reviewed in the MC version.  Another is a Telarc disc of orchestral/celtic music (can't recall the name, but the Chieftains sit in on some of it!).

petermwilson · Jul 22, 2003

Hi Rob,
In Q & A I had with Jeff Talmadge (Denon Jeff) at AVS, I was asking him which component was doing the work with regard to the analogs on an upgraded 5800 vs the 5803.

His response was that the player is doing the work and the upgraded 5800 was just passing through whatever massaging the player is doing to the sound.  In other words "your hearing the player not the reciever.

I'm not sure I understand your comment regarding sacd specifically and pcm.  The only thing I can say is that I have no sense of signal degradation, although I have nothing to compare it to except dvd-a.

They both sound great right now so until Denon comes up with a mltidisc combi player that either allows me to use their link or another upgrade which apparantly would allow whatever the industry standard will be, I will content myself with what I have which is fine with me because since I have yet to hear better, I live in ignorant bliss.

You mentioned that you use a Denon as a prepro what are you using as an amp?

Peter m.

gssrjpc · Jul 24, 2003

Hi, I am a new member of this forum and just thought that I would post some opinions of some of my DVD-A and SCAD's.

First, my system:  Parasound HCA-2205AT
                        Onkyo 777 - Use as my pre
                        Axiom M60's - L&R
                        Axiom VP150 - Center
                        Axiom QS8's - Rear
                        Dennon 2900 - Use for DVD-A, SCAD's & DVD

One of the worst sounding DVD-A that I own is Natile Merchant Tigerlily.  I did not like the way her voice sounds in this dvd.  It sounds removed, like she is behind everything else.

One of the best sounding DVD-A that I own is the Grover Washington Winelight dvd.  Very heavy use of the rears, but tasteful.  

I think by far the best sounding DVD-A or SCAD that I own is the Pink Floyd DSOM Scad.  Just awesome.

Enough for now, maybe more later.

petermwilson · Jul 25, 2003

Hi,
It's interesting that you feel that way about "Tigerlilly".
I use Totem Model 1 sigs which are excellent with female vocals, but I wouldn't be without my Axiom QS4's which are part of my 7.1 setup as surround "B" from my Denon.

Anyway I like the album. BTW do you have Carly Simon's, No Secrets or Diana Kralls dts version of Love Scenes?

Peter m.

gssrjpc · Jul 25, 2003

I am not the only one who feels that way about Tigerlily, at least the DVD-A version.  I have been to several other sites were people say the same thing.  I would much rather listen to the redbook version of this cd.  Just my two cents worth.

I do have the Carly Simon DVD-A.  My wife and I like it a lot.  

I don't have any Diana Krall music.  I only like Jazz just a little.  

How about the America DVD-A or the Boston SCAD.  Two of my favorites.

petermwilson · Jul 25, 2003

Hi,
It's not that I'm coming back to this music. It's like I was never there in the first place.

I have the America effort and enjoy it more as I hear the non top 40 songs that I of course heard on the radio when they first came out.

I probably will pickup the Boston disc when i see it and let you know.

Hey and about Tigerlilly, if you dont't like it, you don't like it.
Regardless of how I feel about the disc I do not think it was poorly done.

Peter m.

gene · Jul 25, 2003

Hey people, I thought I would add my 2cents for what its worth.  So far I have been most impressed with Patricia Barbers 2CH SACD's.  They make my system sound its best and now have me hooked on two channel again

Her music isn't for everyone, but I have grown to appreciate it and the fidelity alone has me listening.

petermwilson · Jul 25, 2003

Hi,
I'm not familiar with her, what type of music is it?  Maybee it's meant for 2ch anyway.

Peter m.
PS: I've got Miles Davis stuff that's a tossup but most of it is great 2ch.
I've got Kind of Blue sacd mlti and dvd-a TUTU mlti

gene · Jul 25, 2003

Hi Peter;

I would classify her as Jazz with lumps

You wont find her music on Smooth Jazz radio stations.  I find her music to be melodic, non simplistic, with interesting lyrics to say the least.  When her band kicks in, things really get interesting.

petermwilson · Jul 25, 2003

Hi Gene,
As soon as I see a hirez effort i'll get it.  What's your favorite?

Peter m.

Rob Babcock · Jul 27, 2003

What I was alluding too, PW, is that SDS (Direct Stream Digital, like SACD) and PCM (Pulse Code Modulation, like CD & DVD-A) are fundamentally different types of digital.  When a DSD signal is converted to PCM, there's bound to be some loss in the conversions; ditto for going the opposite direction.  The amount of degradation may indeed be miniscule, but I have some reservations about the 5803 because of this.  It's out of my price range right now, anyway.  Hopefully a new Universal model w/hi rez digital out will render this moot.

I currently use a 3802; it's a nice unit but I plan to replace it with a 3803 or possibly a 4802R.  I've got a lot of things vying for my limited toy budget, tho, so we'll have to see.

Khellandros66 · Jul 27, 2003

Rob,

I personally don't feel that the 4802R really competes feature wise against the 3803 (especially DACs).

As for DVD-A, I am not all that impressed with it, maybe my cheap Toshiba SD4800 is the culprit?  There's no Bass management, and only a single 192kHz/24bit DAC.  I find the Dolby Digital Tracks to be superior to the (MLP?).  have speakers that handle enough bass to be set for large but the LFE out on this unit is weak almost non existant.

I have considered selling this unit and my Harman/Kardon FL8380 HDCD player and switching to a Yamaha DVD-C940 this unit has SACD decoding and 108MHz/12bit video, or a Denon DVM-1815 which is DVD-A w/ Bass Management and 54MHz/12bit video. Both have Faroudja Processing, but since I don't have a HDTV nor perfect vision (glasses/contacts) will I really notice a Huge difference visually, and/or audio wise?
Or should I wait and buy the upcoming Sony DVD/SACD changer that has a 214MHz/12bit Video DAC.

If I go SACD I will still buy DVD-A discs for their DD or DTS tracks.

~

Bob

Rob Babcock · Aug 5, 2003

I have some DVD-A's which sound better than most of my SACDs.  Some of these include: REM, "Automatic For The People"; Forienger, "4"; Neil Young, "Harvest".

I'd say though that the last two Steely Dan DVD-A's (Two Against Nature & Everything Must Go) both sound better than any SACD I have, including DSotM, although by a narrow margin.  The Pink Floyd disc sounds great, but of course the mastertapes are several decades old.

On SACD, some of the best sounding I have are the DSotM, "The Look Of Love" by Diana Krall, & "Sea Change" by Beck.

The best sounding SACD I've heard yet is probably "Come Away With Me" by Nora Jones.  This is pretty much neck and neck with the Steely Dan discs, soundwise.

Rob Babcock · Aug 8, 2003

I have to update my list of the best sounding to include a couple of discs I just picked up.

First is "The Nightfly" by Donald Fagen (of Steely Dan), on DVD-A.  Not quite as nice as the new S/D discs, but flat out astonishing considering the album is twenty years old.  I've always loved "The New Frontier", and I've never heard it sound better.

The second is the SACD version of "This Side" by Nickel Creek.  Particularly the song "Speak" gives me goosebumps.  It hits me on every level; emotionally, artistically, and technically.  First time I played it I was almost afraid to breathe until it was over.

Lets TALK, TALK, TALK, DVD-A SACD

petermwilson

Audioholic

Rob Babcock

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petermwilson

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rlw

Audiophyte

petermwilson

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Rob Babcock

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petermwilson

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gssrjpc

Audiophyte

petermwilson

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gssrjpc

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petermwilson

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gene

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petermwilson

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gene

Audioholics Master Chief

petermwilson

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Rob Babcock

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Khellandros66

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